EDFL Premier Division

[BlueJet]

Hey Kaboose, like to read your comments on big footy and you do create some good conversation but maybe best to let this pass mate.
You, as per most EDFL footy followers think Abers has recruited a lot of players when they have a very good junior structure and good 18s that should be playing regular senior footy. But they are striving to win the premiership just like most other clubs.
#need to remember other sides have spent big to win premierships in the past. Marby, Greenvale, Strathmore even Pacco in B Grade a few years back.

I'm not a believer in this points system but would like a system where all clubs must play min 3 kids that have come from there 18s and a total of 5 players 19yrs and under. This will encourage clubs to put resources into there juniors as well as be able to recruit..
The current points system is Brock McLean is worth 1 point compared to say Ben Ross who is worth 6 points. Is this fair, I'm not sure but agree it's great his gone back to his local club and will be another ace up Abers sleeve under the points system..
Also if players have played at clubs for a number of years they have points deducted so again Abers win out with some players..
There must be balance and equality in any system.

What do you think mate?

Brock returning to his jnr club is and should be worth less under the points system than Ross.
This is what the system should be encouraging, returning 'home' as opposed to selling yourself to the highest bidder. From what I hear Brock has been terrific around the club and any number of talented youngsters down at Abers will be better off for having him around.
Again, lower points for tenure at any one particular club is a great way to discourage changing clubs every other year.

 

[Yeah right]

Does anyone agree that Steve Krstevski is the worst coach in the premier division.

 

[BlueJet]

Does anyone agree that Steve Krstevski is the worst coach in the premier division.

Tbh it's hard to gauge, put him at the helm of Abers/Greenvale/Strathmore and how would he fare?
He's probably got the hardest gig in the Premier div in regards to kicking out the troublesome factions as well as trying to maintain NS status as a premier div club.

 

[Yeah right]

Aparently his doing the job for no money, just for the experience.

 

[Yeah right]

Tbh it's hard to gauge, put him at the helm of Abers/Greenvale/Strathmore and how would he fare?
He's probably got the hardest gig in the Premier div in regards to kicking out the troublesome factions as well as trying to maintain NS status as a premier div club.

Aparently his foing

Tbh it's hard to gauge, put him at the helm of Abers/Greenvale/Strathmore and how would he fare?
He's probably got the hardest gig in the Premier div in regards to kicking out the troublesome factions as well as trying to maintain NS status as a premier div club.

Aparently his doing the job for no money, just the experience.

 

[Turbos mail]

Brock returning to his jnr club is and should be worth less under the points system than Ross.
This is what the system should be encouraging, returning 'home' as opposed to selling yourself to the highest bidder. From what I hear Brock has been terrific around the club and any number of talented youngsters down at Abers will be better off for having him around.
Again, lower points for tenure at any one particular club is a great way to discourage changing clubs every other year.

BlueJet, what I'm alluding to is more that the system will favour certain clubs by being introduced next year.

I think Brock going back to Abers was great for Abers and footy in general. Also people like Johns staying at a club for a long time should be commended. But what if someone is from interstate or country and now settled in Melb. Should they and there club be disadvantaged by the points margin. It's wrong!!
The competition gap will be much wider unless there is allowances to suit. I could give more examples.

It's a fact some other clubs also have ex AFL/VFL players but it's NOT always the case they all go to the highest bidder otherwise the clubs paying the most money would have them all. Some players like to play with mates and also go to a club outside the so called "top" clubs to try and achieve success as it's something special if you can achieve success. As much as I don't begrudge anyone getting good money, money alone is not what drives every player. These are quality people!!

 

[Turbos mail]

Aparently his foing

Aparently his doing the job for no money, just the experience.

Kudos to him I say. If someone is coaching at any senior level (maybe bar div3) for nothing that's commendable in my book. He must just love his footy I guess. Even some 18s coaches are getting paid I hear.. But once again it's probably necessary as it's important to have a good 18s coach..

 

[BlueJet]

BlueJet, what I'm alluding to is more that the system will favour certain clubs by being introduced next year.

I think Brock going back to Abers was great for Abers and footy in general. Also people like Johns staying at a club for a long time should be commended. But what if someone is from interstate or country and now settled in Melb. Should they and there club be disadvantaged by the points margin. It's wrong!!
The competition gap will be much wider unless there is allowances to suit. I could give more examples.

It's a fact some other clubs also have ex AFL/VFL players but it's NOT always the case they all go to the highest bidder otherwise the clubs paying the most money would have them all. Some players like to play with mates and also go to a club outside the so called "top" clubs to try and achieve success as it's something special if you can achieve success. As much as I don't begrudge anyone getting good money, money alone is not what drives every player. These are quality people!!

The beneficiaries of the system will be the clubs that develop their young people and create a culture where playing a bit of seconds footy isn't the end of the world and are valued as an integral piece of the club itself either way.
Funnily enough the clubs best suited to handle the transition to a points system are those very clubs that many have griped about throwing cash about at various stages (Abers/G'vale/Mores/Keilor).
IMO if clubs have gone out and recruited en masse in the past 12 months or so it is indicative of terrible management as all clubs were made aware of the likely introduction of a points system quite a while ago.
You are correct however and players that have relocated from interstate for work etc should be given an allowance, though it may open another can of worms as clubs may begin recruiting out of the sanfl/wafl with the promise of jobs etc.
All the same, it'll be interesting to see how the roll-out of the system is handled.

 

[Turbos mail]

The beneficiaries of the system will be the clubs that develop their young people and create a culture where playing a bit of seconds footy isn't the end of the world and are valued as an integral piece of the club itself either way.
Funnily enough the clubs best suited to handle the transition to a points system are those very clubs that many have griped about throwing cash about at various stages (Abers/G'vale/Mores/Keilor).
IMO if clubs have gone out and recruited en masse in the past 12 months or so it is indicative of terrible management as all clubs were made aware of the likely introduction of a points system quite a while ago.
You are correct however and players that have relocated from interstate for work etc should be given an allowance, though it may open another can of worms as clubs may begin recruiting out of the sanfl/wafl with the promise of jobs etc.
All the same, it'll be interesting to see how the roll-out of the system is handled.

BlueJet, your comments make sense in most part but all clubs mentioned above have also recruited a lot of players over the last year or so, but it's maybe noticed at the club like Pacco due to the sharp improvement this year. But what I now see is much bigger crowds which brings more dads and their kids along to watch senior footy. There a vibe around the place and what's important is to build off this. That's probably how it all started at other clubs.
The other thing to highly consider here is the location of all the clubs you mentioned. Property in these areas is very expensive so getting people to hand over money for social membership and junior membership is a lot easier. This is where other clubs struggle.
Also the areas they draw from as well as some schools close by..

Let's use an example: $500-1000 to become a member. Get a jacket, polo and free drinks and food at home games.. That's nothing if you own property (or 2) in these areas. Some other clubs will struggle to get the numbers.. That's fact!

This is not to be taken as being out of context but it's real. That's why EDS could survive in premier but could a West Meadows, Tulla, Taylor's Lakes etc. survive in premier. Can't see it.. Craigieburn is an interesting one but I believe the golf sports club are a major backer, and they have a large area so might be able to compete..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Brock returning to his jnr club is and should be worth less under the points system than Ross.
This is what the system should be encouraging, returning 'home' as opposed to selling yourself to the highest bidder. From what I hear Brock has been terrific around the club and any number of talented youngsters down at Abers will be better off for having him around.
Again, lower points for tenure at any one particular club is a great way to discourage changing clubs every other year.

Abers, Greenvale & Strathmorr are still going to dominate because of the strong jnr setup they have established.

I wonder if the players would have grounds to challenge the points system legality as it restricts there earning capabilities and could be seen as a restraint of trade.

 

[BlueJet]

BlueJet, your comments make sense in most part but all clubs mentioned above have also recruited a lot of players over the last year or so, but it's maybe noticed at the club like Pacco due to the sharp improvement this year. But what I now see is much bigger crowds which brings more dads and their kids along to watch senior footy. There a vibe around the place and what's important is to build off this. That's probably how it all started at other clubs.
The other thing to highly consider here is the location of all the clubs you mentioned. Property in these areas is very expensive so getting people to hand over money for social membership and junior membership is a lot easier. This is where other clubs struggle.
Also the areas they draw from as well as some schools close by..

Let's use an example: $500-1000 to become a member. Get a jacket, polo and free drinks and food at home games.. That's nothing if you own property (or 2) in these areas. Some other clubs will struggle to get the numbers.. That's fact!

This is not to be taken as being out of context but it's real. That's why EDS could survive in premier but could a West Meadows, Tulla, Taylor's Lakes etc. survive in premier. Can't see it.. Craigieburn is an interesting one but I believe the golf sports club are a major backer, and they have a large area so might be able to compete..

It is true that they all have recruited in recent years as well (I did note that they were the clubs knocked for their recruiting practices), however despite bringing in your Lowers, Delucas etc.. Greenvale fielded a side at the weekend that included 13 former Greenvale fc juniors, how does that compare to say Avondale or Pacco?
Land price is a purely speculative area and there are arguments to be made both for and against the potential benefits for a footy club.
As for Craigieburn, they really are an enigma.

Abers, Greenvale & Strathmorr are still going to dominate because of the strong jnr setup they have established.

I wonder if the players would have grounds to challenge the points system legality as it restricts there earning capabilities and could be seen as a restraint of trade.

Interesting point, I'd wonder whether it being a points system as opposed to a salary cap is in part an attempt to diminish these claims? As I'm sure we've all heard people question the legality of a salary cap at one point or another.

 

[1061]

I wonder if the players would have grounds to challenge the points system legality as it restricts there earning capabilities and could be seen as a restraint of trade.

Surely the health and survival of the competition is a higher priority than a few players earning more.
If the AFL players accepted the salary cap without question what kind of men are those who would try and challenge a local comps rules?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Surely the health and survival of the competition is a higher priority than a few players earning more.
If the AFL players accepted the salary cap without question what kind of men are those who would try and challenge a local comps rules?

I am not sure if I am blind, however i dont think the health and strength of the competiton has ever been stronger. Every club in Premier division except northern saints has played finals recently. There are 6 teams fighting for the top 4 spots, the bottom side led the reigning premiers for 3/4 of there game on Saturday..

There have always been clubs able to pay more than there rivals, it was Doutta and Keilor in the 90s, Oak Park joined them in them in the 00s, then Greenvale, Marby, Strathmore found money to competem Airport west and Avondale have had cracks in the past few years and now Pacco looks like they are the new kid on the block... The money that has come into the game has made everyone stronger and made clubs look at themselves internally and how they can get better to compete.

I just dont believe in a 'communist' model where we have to bring down the top clubs to the level of the bottom clubs when we should be doing the opposite, encouraging the bottom clubs to get better. Even under the points system there is still going to be a winner of Premier division and a team that finishes bottom of Div 2.

 

[twobobsworth]

Abers, Greenvale & Strathmorr are still going to dominate because of the strong jnr setup they have established.

I wonder if the players would have grounds to challenge the points system legality as it restricts there earning capabilities and could be seen as a restraint of trade.

Fair call but how many declare it in their tax return each year and if they don't I doubt they would want to attract attention to themselves? How many clubs issue group certificates at the EOFY?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Fair call but how many declare it in their tax return each year and if they don't I doubt they would want to attract attention to themselves? How many clubs issue group certificates at the EOFY?

I doubt many at all, and if there is to be a clean up of local footy and organisation like the ATO might be the driving force.

 

[The Milk Man]

Does anyone agree that Steve Krstevski is the worst coach in the premier division.

Just stick to your own tread NFL Div 2, not from Thommo are you. The bloke is doing a great job, it doesn't help when you have some of your best players out. Fort plays on the weekend and the Saints win. I really doubt he is doing the job for nothing either.

 

[Bissa3]

I am not sure if I am blind, however i dont think the health and strength of the competiton has ever been stronger. Every club in Premier division except northern saints has played finals recently. There are 6 teams fighting for the top 4 spots, the bottom side led the reigning premiers for 3/4 of there game on Saturday..

There have always been clubs able to pay more than there rivals, it was Doutta and Keilor in the 90s, Oak Park joined them in them in the 00s, then Greenvale, Marby, Strathmore found money to competem Airport west and Avondale have had cracks in the past few years and now Pacco looks like they are the new kid on the block... The money that has come into the game has made everyone stronger and made clubs look at themselves internally and how they can get better to compete.

I just dont believe in a 'communist' model where we have to bring down the top clubs to the level of the bottom clubs when we should be doing the opposite, encouraging the bottom clubs to get better. Even under the points system there is still going to be a winner of Premier division and a team that finishes bottom of Div 2.

Could not agree more, i think its a very dangerous move to try and introduce rules and regulations to effectively try to reduce the success of the top clubs and bring them back to the pack with the lower clubs. Of course completely even comps across all comps would be fantastic, but lets be real as much as we would love it to, that is impossible and will never happen! Lets not mess with whats not broken i personally feel local footy has never been better

 

[The Good Oil]

Could not agree more, i think its a very dangerous move to try and introduce rules and regulations to effectively try to reduce the success of the top clubs and bring them back to the pack with the lower clubs. Of course completely even comps across all comps would be fantastic, but lets be real as much as we would love it to, that is impossible and will never happen! Lets not mess with whats not broken i personally feel local footy has never been better

What will happen eventually is that the AFL Victoria will step in and merge the wrfl edfl & part of the nfl. Effectively there will be a NW league SE and so on. NW will have approximately 7 grades this will ensure at least 5 even grades at any one time.Mark my words it will happen just a matter of time.

 

[John of all Johns]

Just stick to your own tread NFL Div 2, not from Thommo are you. The bloke is doing a great job, it doesn't help when you have some of your best players out. Fort plays on the weekend and the Saints win. I really doubt he is doing the job for nothing either.

A person trying to start a fire with from ashes from the past.
Would not even bother trying to explain yourselves too this kind of rubbish.
Good luck to Steve and saints.

 

[goalside]

Abers, Greenvale & Strathmorr are still going to dominate because of the strong jnr setup they have established.

I wonder if the players would have grounds to challenge the points system legality as it restricts there earning capabilities and could be seen as a restraint of trade.

It is not a restraint of trade. They can still earn what the club is willing and or can pay. If it was a restraint of trade they wouldn't have the current system of salary caps in the AFL.

Salary capping will be difficult to administer and enforce and will be open to potential rorting. How can transparency be achieved? Whereas with the points system every player is registered on the Foxsportspulse, each player issued with a points category and the team sheet published with names as it is now. Fully tansparent. It can then be measured and controlled.

Who is worth what points is a different argument.

 

[Turbos mail]

I am not sure if I am blind, however i dont think the health and strength of the competiton has ever been stronger. Every club in Premier division except northern saints has played finals recently. There are 6 teams fighting for the top 4 spots, the bottom side led the reigning premiers for 3/4 of there game on Saturday..

There have always been clubs able to pay more than there rivals, it was Doutta and Keilor in the 90s, Oak Park joined them in them in the 00s, then Greenvale, Marby, Strathmore found money to competem Airport west and Avondale have had cracks in the past few years and now Pacco looks like they are the new kid on the block... The money that has come into the game has made everyone stronger and made clubs look at themselves internally and how they can get better to compete.

I just dont believe in a 'communist' model where we have to bring down the top clubs to the level of the bottom clubs when we should be doing the opposite, encouraging the bottom clubs to get better. Even under the points system there is still going to be a winner of Premier division and a team that finishes bottom of Div 2.

Could not agree more, i think its a very dangerous move to try and introduce rules and regulations to effectively try to reduce the success of the top clubs and bring them back to the pack with the lower clubs. Of course completely even comps across all comps would be fantastic, but lets be real as much as we would love it to, that is impossible and will never happen! Lets not mess with whats not broken i personally feel local footy has never been better

What will happen eventually is that the AFL Victoria will step in and merge the wrfl edfl & part of the nfl. Effectively there will be a NW league SE and so on. NW will have approximately 7 grades this will ensure at least 5 even grades at any one time.Mark my words it will happen just a matter of time.

Now some great thoughts on the league by both ItsallaboutMe and Bissa. Some of the best stuff I've read and agree with. I also think The Good Oil could be on to something as well as it does appear to have been done in some other leagues but maybe due to different circumstances with clubs struggling, as the EDFL appears to be getting stronger each year.

Keep up the good work..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It is not a restraint of trade. They can still earn what the club is willing and or can pay. If it was a restraint of trade they wouldn't have the current system of salary caps in the AFL.

Salary capping will be difficult to administer and enforce and will be open to potential rorting. How can transparency be achieved? Whereas with the points system every player is registered on the Foxsportspulse, each player issued with a points category and the team sheet published with names as it is now. Fully tansparent. It can then be measured and controlled.

Who is worth what points is a different argument.

The AFL freely admit that if challenged the salary cap wouldnt have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

This is thr same with quotas in european football, the the english FA discussed having a minimum of 5 british players in evety starting team, however was told that it would be illegal.

 

[goalside]

The AFL freely admit that if challenged the salary cap wouldnt have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

This is thr same with quotas in european football, the the english FA discussed having a minimum of 5 british players in evety starting team, however was told that it would be illegal.

Not sure about English Law, and if it was the case that it wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law, you would think it would have already been tested. Collectively, there may a restraint only because of the cap, but not on an individual basis. This is why it hasn't been tested and I cannot see it being tested at this time nor in the next couple of years.

 

[Why so serious]

I doubt many at all, and if there is to be a clean up of local footy and organisation like the ATO might be the driving force.

A friend of mine said that his accountant said "It is classed as a hobby" and that the tax man has no interest in the payments.

 

[BlueJet]

A friend of mine said that his accountant said "It is classed as a hobby" and that the tax man has no interest in the payments.

Sports clubs are also classed as community organisations and can be tax exempt if they meet the required criteria.