Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Grasshopper17]

Fagan is not inside their heads.
And, damn sure he didn’t ask them to drop off in intensity and effort, so what is he supposed to say, other than they mentally checked out of the game when things got hard.

OR he offers something more concrete about a5 day break after playing in the slop, and he gets criticised for making excuses. Can't win either way.

Also, whatever the "excuses" are/were, it's quite possible they're different for various players.

 

[SizeMatters]

Bottom line our forward line is one of the most inefficient in the league - we get lots of entries but our scoring frequency versus those entries is close to the worst in the league and the exits out from F50 entries is equally high.

Our forward line is not functioning. Point the finger at the lot of them - no pressure

Agree. They aren’t taking their chances when given but also has to be raised the delivery inside 50 has been pathetic all year. Now it may be that they aren’t working into space or providing appropriate options when we look to go inside 50 or we are just that bad at kicking inside 50. Prob both.

 

[SizeMatters]

Heard a clip of Leigh Matthews talking about the criticism of Chris Fagan.

1- The criticism of his presser was ridiculous, what do they expect him to say.
2- Coaches have little affect during a game, he laughed when talking about pundits who say a particular coach was out coached on the day.
3- The best players win matches not the best coaches, would you rather the best coach or the best players.

Is matthews an expert? He’s past his time in the game. Still has involvement in the media and gets to the Lions training every now and then but when it comes to talking about the game I think he’s on par with recently retired footballers in terms of analysis and insights. Arguably recently retired footballers would understand the modern game better than he does.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'd rather the best coach to be honest. We've seen the best coaches do wonders with a group of "good enough" players, but teams with plenty of stars stumble time and time again.

Agree. And a little thing called salary cap. The best players are the best players cus they are held up by lesser players doing the small things that aren’t acknowledged enough. They play footy the way they want and often don’t do the smaller things like defend… A champion system will beat a team of champions.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Is matthews an expert? He’s past his time in the game. Still has involvement in the media and gets to the Lions training every now and then but when it comes to talking about the game I think he’s on par with recently retired footballers in terms of analysis and insights. Arguably recently retired footballers would understand the modern game better than he does.

He's a board member and mentor of our current coach. Has also actually coached at AFL level

I'd take that over a high school footy coach any day of the week

 

[Tassie4ever]

One less free in last year's gf, or Charlie getting a goal instead of a behind and the fagan bashers would be lauding his capability.

He's EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON.

Yes we have problems. Yes some of his choices haven't worked out (love dizzy but he is not a forward), but the fagan write off is insane.

To me it's blindingly obvious why Gardiner is played in our forward line. That's because none of the other buggers will tackle. Like none!!!!

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[Grasshopper17]

To me it's blindingly obvious why Gardiner is played in our forward line. That's because none of the other buggers will tackle. Like none!!!!

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[Toffee Lion]

Just had a quick scan through the Port Adelaide board sack Hinkley thread, gee there is some vitriol on there.

Hopefully we don't get that far down in the gutter re Chris Fagan.

Probably not possible due to Fages age, he'd have to be here for the next 5+ years to reach Hinkley levels of disdain.

FWIW, I think Port fans have every right to feel aggrieved with their club. The coach is not delivering and it's been 11 years with him. 11 years of failure being a constant would infuriate most fans.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Probably not possible due to Fages age, he'd have to be here for the next 5+ years to reach Hinkley levels of disdain.

FWIW, I think Port fans have every right to feel aggrieved with their club. The coach is not delivering and it's been 11 years with him. 11 years of failure being a constant would infuriate most fans.

I agree but also, have you read that thread? There personal insults about his appearance, him being a ‘coward’ and all sorts of over the top nonsense in there. Watching football should never get to that level

 

[SizeMatters]

He's a board member and mentor of our current coach. Has also actually coached at AFL level

I'd take that over a high school footy coach any day of the week

Old man Sheedy is the same yet most question what he has to say a lot of the time. Doesn’t mean what they say is relevant.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Old man Sheedy is the same yet most question what he has to say a lot of the time. Doesn’t mean what they say is relevant.

So, what’s your point?

 

[Toffee Lion]

I agree but also, have you read that thread? There personal insults about his appearance, him being a ‘coward’ and all sorts of over the top nonsense in there. Watching football should never get to that level

I do agree that some go over the top and I'm not advocating that those people are right. I'm purely speaking from a football sense.

 

[M Malice]

He's a board member and mentor of our current coach. Has also actually coached at AFL level

I'd take that over a high school footy coach any day of the week

+ One of the greatest players of all time, poor old Lethal might still know a thing or 2 about footy, very pragmatic guy too which is a great trait to have as a pundit.

I don't think he would be sugar coating anything if Fagan asked his advice during their weekly steak lunches catch ups.

 

[SizeMatters]

So, what’s your point?

titles don’t mean shit.

And the way some people hold up others as a “real” footy expert cus they coached 20 years ago is bordering on blind faith. yet others who don’t have the same titles should be taken with caution (or ignored). I just mentioned Sheedy - who is arguably more of an expert according to the metrics raised on this board than Matthews - just to raise a point that all the titles and labels you threw on Matthews as a “reasonable” voice to adhere to also applies to Sheedy who many say is off his rocker most of the time.

I just see it as a case of picking and choosing whatever suites one’s narrative. This applies to everything. Fair enough we all aren’t immune to seeking affirmations and biased bit and bobs of info to support one’s own thinking.

 

[Nathan Barley]

titles don’t mean s**t.

And the way some people hold up others as a “real” footy expert cus they coached 20 years ago is bordering on blind faith. yet others who don’t have the same titles should be taken with caution (or ignored). I just mentioned Sheedy - who is arguably more of an expert according to the metrics raised on this board than Matthews - just to raise a point that all the titles and labels you threw on Matthews as a “reasonable” voice to adhere to also applies to Sheedy who many say is off his rocker most of the time.

I just see it as a case of picking and choosing whatever suites one’s narrative. This applies to everything. Fair enough we all aren’t immune to seeking affirmations and biased bit and bobs of info to support one’s own thinking.

Titles or experience?

Also, confused by the Sheedy references

 

[SizeMatters]

Titles or experience?

Also, confused by the Sheedy references

I can’t help you there son.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I can’t help you there son.

Has Sheedy actually said something controversial recently. Cannot remember the last time I’ve hear him state his opinion publicly

Also, no blind faith of lethals opinion. Not only did he appoint Leppa but made the putrid decision to give him another contract

 

[lionsrules]

i cant see fagan being sacked. players signed up to this club because of buying into his sales pitch. (Dunkley as a recent one and as far back as Joe, Neale, Charlie). If Mcluggage signs on and in the media states he buys into fages plan then thats even more of a statement. Only way he goes if he thinks he's lost the players (as others have stated before). Or the leadership group inform Swann and co and on top of that something big like Mcluggage leaving.

So ... with that in my mind, id like to see the club recruit two assistants from other clubs if possible. One in some kind of senior assistant role with the nod that they take over once Fages current contract is up.

 

[Gadzorks]

To me it's blindingly obvious why Gardiner is played in our forward line. That's because none of the other buggers will tackle. Like none!!!!

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

He does, but he does not have developed offensive instincts. Won't take a shot and will stand there waiting for people to arrive so he can pass to them.

I think going back to the reserves and concentrating on offensive will bring him up to speed, but very hard to develop in the ones.

But I also understand your point and given he isn't dropped, fagan appears to share your view.

 

[notliondown]

Old man Sheedy is the same yet most question what he has to say a lot of the time. Doesn’t mean what they say is relevant.

Comparing Sheedy to Matthews is like comparing Trump and Biden.

They are both old but one is a rambling, fact less, vitriolic, inciting, gormless circus clown and the other is Joe Biden.

 

[martinson]

Comparing Sheedy to Matthews is like comparing Trump and Biden.

They are both old but one is a rambling, fact less, vitriolic, inciting, gormless circus clown and the other is Joe Biden.

I wouldn't be overly flattered if I was either of them then

 

[martinson]

Mathews is 72 . That's old ? He's still got his marbles and heaps of experience.

The older I get the more prima facie evidence I see of the value of experience , and the consequences of the lack of it.

 

[Squizz89]

You’ve gotta hand it to Fages he’s loyal to a fault. That can be a good thing, it can also cost people their jobs at times too…

Reckon we’ll have a fair idea if he’s lost them or not over the next month. The draw opens up for a while now against teams we should be competitive against, if not beating. If we struggle then it wouldn’t totally shock me if he starts thinking himself, that maybe he’s got all he can out of this group.

 

[notliondown]

Mathews is 72 . That's old ? He's still got his marbles and heaps of experience.

The older I get the more prima facie evidence I see of the value of experience , and the consequences of the lack of it.

That's also why Mathews still is respected and his opinion is one that still holds some weight. He's never been over the top, his views are pretty balanced and neutral - and even when referring to us he never gilds the lily. He uses his experience to create perspective.

Sheeds on the other seems to have his own view of the world rightly or wrongly.

 

[martinson]

That's also why Mathews still is respected and his opinion is one that still holds some weight. He's never been over the top, his views are pretty balanced and neutral - and even when referring to us he never gilds the lily. He uses his experience to create perspective.

Sheeds on the other seems to have his own view of the world rightly or wrongly.

Sheedy's always been like that. Nothing to do with his age.

I could tell you some stories.