Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Section 5]

I always look to comparisons from the past to be instructive rather than predictive.

I put up a post a while ago where I drew the conclusion that the circumstances at Geelong , Richmond and even us in 2000 weren't comparable to us this year except that in all cases the coaches had been there a while. Like the coaches many more times who had and never saw any success. Particularly those who had significant finals presence in all the prior years.

You can't draw anything definitive from that and I agree with Dlanod that Fagan has earnt the right to see out his contract at least but if we continue the way we're going this year and we get more of the same next year then it's only reasonable to look for a change in approach.

I'm really hoping in the off season that we can bring in someone whom Fagan can mentor for the next era . That means a Chris Scott type as an example would not be considered. You'd like someone younger with drive ambition and the smarts. They're not easy to find , but Roos did it at the Swans ,even after they managed extreme success and also at Melbourne.

dlanod did not say that in the bolded. Neither did i in a recent post.
In both our posts we said similar. dlanod recent post "If we miss finals this year and having a losing record half way through next year, that's when all bets will be off."
I said basically the same thing.
I also talked about the most likely upcoming Federal Court case that could be 2025 and beyond and have a mental effect on his coaching.
Next year is 2025 and Fagan contract is to the end of 2027

 

[martinson]

dlanod did not say that in the bolded. Neither did i in a recent post.
In both our posts we said similar. dlanod recent post "If we miss finals this year and having a losing record half way through next year, that's when all bets will be off."
I said basically the same thing.
I also talked about the most likely upcoming Federal Court case that could be 2025 and beyond and have a mental effect on his coaching.
Next year is 2025 and Fagan contract is to the end of 2027

Apologies . I thought his contract was to end 25.

Well I agree. My honest thoughts if we were talking in the pub are times up due to his age and other factors one of which you mention but in all fairness he's earnt the right to see if he can reset in 25 and he may well do over the rest of this year and into next. But I'm sceptical.

Likewise due to the external issues he's facing and because it just makes sense anyway he needs to get hold of a new voice to help revitalise the group.

 

[DreadBat5701894]

Next year is 2025 and Fagan contract is to the end of 2027

Where did you get that from? Because I'm pretty sure the contract is to the end of 2025.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah, 100% of references I can find say 2025.

FWIW that wasn't actually in my mind at all. I have no affection for the end of contract date, it was more in practicalities about 18 months of a downslide.

 

[Dalions]

I wanted us to have a crack at Christ Scott a few years ago. If we're making a move it needs to be a tried and tested coach who has got the job done before.

Have no doubt the Collingwood fans would have been saying the same thing a couple of years ago.

 

[dlanod]

I wanted us to have a crack at Christ Scott a few years ago. If we're making a move it needs to be a tried and tested coach who has got the job done before.

All hail the second coming of Scott!

 

[mpal6]

All hail the second coming of Scott!

 

[Section 5]

Yeah, 100% of references I can find say 2025.

FWIW that wasn't actually in my mind at all. I have no affection for the end of contract date, it was more in practicalities about 18 months of a downslide.

Chris Fagan has been given a two-year contract extension as Brisbane Lions coach in a show of faith as he awaits the outcome of an investigation into historical racism claims.
Fagan, who turns 62 this year, will extend his time in charge of the Lions to at least eight years with his deal at the club extended until the end of the 2027 season.

Unless it is a misprint on the year.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/brisbane-extends-coach-chris-fagans-contract-despite-racism-investigation/news-story/392fbcbaca82e3fd6d5eb5caa2f2f661

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/brisbane-extends-coach-chris-fagans-contract-despite-racism-investigation/news-story/392fbcbaca82e3fd6d5eb5caa2f2f661

 

[Dalions]

Chris Fagan has been given a two-year contract extension as Brisbane Lions coach in a show of faith as he awaits the outcome of an investigation into historical racism claims.
Fagan, who turns 62 this year, will extend his time in charge of the Lions to at least eight years with his deal at the club extended until the end of the 2027 season.

Unless it is a misprint on the year.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/brisbane-extends-coach-chris-fagans-contract-despite-racism-investigation/news-story/392fbcbaca82e3fd6d5eb5caa2f2f661

I think this one is his 8th year isn’t it so that is kind of weird.

 

[dlanod]

Chris Fagan has been given a two-year contract extension as Brisbane Lions coach in a show of faith as he awaits the outcome of an investigation into historical racism claims.
Fagan, who turns 62 this year, will extend his time in charge of the Lions to at least eight years with his deal at the club extended until the end of the 2027 season.

Unless it is a misprint on the year.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/brisbane-extends-coach-chris-fagans-contract-despite-racism-investigation/news-story/392fbcbaca82e3fd6d5eb5caa2f2f661

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/brisbane-extends-coach-chris-fagans-contract-despite-racism-investigation/news-story/392fbcbaca82e3fd6d5eb5caa2f2f661

I think that's a misprint. Every other source reporting it at the same time say 2025.

Lions extend coach’s contract, reveal two new captains ahead of 2023 season

Lions make huge contract call on coach, reveal TWO new captains for 2023

www.foxsports.com.au

Lions extend Fagan’s contract; Four AFL umpires confirmed; AFLW star bound for Hawks

The Brisbane Lions have shown their faith in coach Chris Fagan, extending his deal by two years before the AFL investigation relating to his time at Hawthorn has been concluded.

www.theage.com.au

Brisbane announce contract extension for senior coach Chris Fagan

The Lions coach is entering his seventh season with the club.

www.zerohanger.com

Fagan contract extension a show of faith from Lions

Chris Fagan has been backed by Brisbane in the form of a two-year contract extension as the coach...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Fagan contract extension a show of faith from Lions

Chris Fagan has been backed by Brisbane in the form of a two-year contract extension as the coach...

www.lismorecitynews.com.au

Fagan Contract Extension A Show Of Faith From Lions

Chris Fagan's two-year contract extension as Brisbane coach was delivered as a sidenote by the club on the same day the Lions' captains were announced.

www.racingandsports.com.au

 

[Section 5]

I think this one is his 8th year isn’t it so that is kind of weird.

Fagan appointed in October 2016.
So end of 2025 is 9 years anyhow.
But as i mentioned it may be a misprint from both papers.

 

[Section 5]

Now that it looks like the end of 2025 is the most likely date.

How will the club react to the pressure that may mount on the coach even if we scrape into the 8.
Will they show faith at the beginning of 2025 and reappoint him to stop any negative talk.
Or will they wait and see what unfolds in the first half of the season and any possible court action.

 

[notliondown]

Now that it looks like the end of 2025 is the most likely date.

How will the club react to the pressure that may mount on the coach even if we scrape into the 8.
Will they show faith at the beginning of 2025 and reappoint him to stop any negative talk.
Or will they wait and see what unfolds in the first half of the season and any possible court action.

If we scrape into the 8 there will be zero pressure on Fages. That will be seen by all and sundry as a small miracle I would think.

If we stay rigidly in the bottom 5 or 6 that will be a different discussion.

I also believe 100% Fages is the sort of person that would leave before being pushed so while I do think discussions would be had I doubt they would ever get too serious.

 

[mpal6]

AFL too must be having a quiet word about Fagan heading over to setup Tassie at the end of 2025.

 

[knaf]

Is it an either or situation? Sack Fagan or keep Fagan with the same approach?

Fagan rightly has confidence in his approach. He has been as successful as you can be without winning a flag (close loss in a grand final and the best win loss ratio over a five year period), built a strong culture and attracted quality players to the club.

Could Fagan be both supported and challenged through a professional review of the football department? There were some suggestions along these lines (on this board) in 2022. Given the Hawthorn debacle, the club was never going to do it end 2022.

Fagan appears to be both intelligent and a deep thinker. You would hope he would consider suggestions from an independent respect person who had a deep look at the workings of our club. All approaches have strengths and weaknesses. Fagan’s work has plenty of positives to highlight and enhance. Weakness identified can be areas the club could provide addition support to the football department.

It would be fair treatment of a person who has been a stalwart of the club. Also gives the club and Fagan some metrics to consider when discussing a further contract extension.

 

[Squizz89]

Glaring gap in Lions succession plan — and the seven names who could fill it as Fagan call looms

Glaring gap in Lions succession plan — and the seven names who could fill it as Fagan call looms

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[M Malice]

Glaring gap in Lions succession plan — and the seven names who could fill it as Fagan call looms

Glaring gap in Lions succession plan — and the seven names who could fill it as Fagan call looms

www.foxsports.com.au

Must have been running short of content.

Jon , enough said.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Must have been running short of content.

Jon , enough said.

Normally I'd treat that smug SOB with the contempt he has earnt, but on this occasion I agree with him almost completely. We don't have the assistant coaching resources most other clubs do. And a good ambitious assistant might see us as a good place to maybe shoehorn themselves in. We seem to have set up our structure a little differently with more staff in the Academy side of things, and there was some "pay back" for assistants who took pay cuts during lockdown. It doesn't mean our structure is wrong necessarily because it's different. But I'd like to see a little more with strategy week-to-week and maybe that means freeing Daly up a little more.

 

[Dalions]

Normally I'd treat that smug SOB with the contempt he has earnt, but on this occasion I agree with him almost completely. We don't have the assistant coaching resources most other clubs do. And a good ambitious assistant might see us as a good place to maybe shoehorn themselves in. We seem to have set up our structure a little differently with more staff in the Academy side of things, and there was some "pay back" for assistants who took pay cuts during lockdown. It doesn't mean our structure is wrong necessarily because it's different. But I'd like to see a little more with strategy week-to-week and maybe that means freeing Daly up a little more.

If we are able to find the money to bring on a Senior Assistant, Hodgey is the Man for me.
We would need to stump up though, to pry him away from the cushy Media role.
1-2 years under Fagan before taking over in 26-2027.
Fages to move to the Head Of Footy in Tassie.

 

[MSB ROYS]

If we are able to find the money to bring on a Senior Assistant, Hodgey is the Man for me.
We would need to stump up though, to pry him away from the cushy Media role.
1-2 years under Fagan before taking over in 26-2027.
Fages to move to the Head Of Footy in Tassie.

Committing to a succession plan is dangerous as one can't predict how a person will cope with the stresses of being a senior coach, which are different to being a champion player and/or special comments media person.

 

[Dalions]

Committing to a succession plan is dangerous as one can't predict how a person will cope with the stresses of being a senior coach, which are different to being a champion player and/or special comments media person.

No doubt!

 

[notliondown]

Maybe the southern clubs who carry on about the academies could also have a think about what it does to the overall structures of the club given we need to spread the same dollars further.

I hate the messiness and speculation when coaches reach what is perceived as the beginning of the end... just seems vulgar in some way. Fages does not deserve to be speculated about and his bones picked for the next 18 months no matter what you think about him.

The idea of a succession plan seems like a fairytale way to go but have they ever really worked? Does that transition period stifle the assistant and change his thinking? Does it become more a continuation than a restart if that's what you are looking for? What does it mean if he then want's new assistants?

It's probably just me but I can't remember too many success stories...

 

[Nuggo]

Succession plans can work but just don't put it in ink and the person in line to take the reins must coach a side ie ressies etc to a standard that suggest that they would be a capable of being a senior coach, have involvement in the media, show specific plans and strategy for when things do not go according to plan.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You can't draw anything definitive from that and I agree with Dlanod that Fagan has earnt the right to see out his contract at least but if we continue the way we're going this year and we get more of the same next year then it's only reasonable to look for a change in approach.

I'm really hoping in the off season that we can bring in someone whom Fagan can mentor for the next era . That means a Chris Scott type as an example would not be considered. You'd like someone younger with drive ambition and the smarts. They're not easy to find , but Roos did it at the Swans ,even after they managed extreme success and also at Melbourne.

I agree with all of this. I'm hoping for Daniel Giansiracusa personally. He's been an assistant at two clubs (Bulldogs and Essendon), he's won a flag, been named assistant coach of the year and coached a VFL side. I'm sure he's played a part in Essendon's big rise this year too. And he's clearly hungry for a senior role.

Essendon assistant Daniel Giansiracusa hoping for senior coaching opportunity

"I'd grab it with both hands."

www.zerohanger.com

What Daniel Giansiracusa has learnt from Brad Scott amid head coaching aspirations

Essendon assistant coach Daniel Giansiracusa has admitted he’d love to be a senior coach in the AFL one day. Caroline Wilson spoke on 3AW Football about Brad Scott “strongly implying” Giansiracusa will be a senior coach one day. “I hope he’s right,” Giansiracusa responded to Wilson. Press PLAY...

www.3aw.com.au

 

[briztoon]

Maybe the southern clubs who carry on about the academies could also have a think about what it does to the overall structures of the club given we need to spread the same dollars further.

I hate the messiness and speculation when coaches reach what is perceived as the beginning of the end... just seems vulgar in some way. Fages does not deserve to be speculated about and his bones picked for the next 18 months no matter what you think about him.

The idea of a succession plan seems like a fairytale way to go but have they ever really worked? Does that transition period stifle the assistant and change his thinking? Does it become more a continuation than a restart if that's what you are looking for? What does it mean if he then want's new assistants?

It's probably just me but I can't remember too many success stories...

As far as I’m aware, Academy funding is outside the soft cap, so to the Academy coaching salaries.

We still need to fund the academy ourselves, but it shouldn’t be factored in to the running of the senior club.