Coach Fages and the coaching group

[golions]

If we can't entice Luke Hodge and if the Cats win the flag I think Joel Selwood will retire on a high, if he is looking at getting into coaching we should go hard for him as an assistant ... ultra professional high achiever.

Former Lion coaching at the Cats now Nigel Lappin would be a fantastic get as well.

In the first few years when Fagan started (with Noble and Hodge around) when it looked like we were realyl building something then we would have had assistants wanting to join us to learn form Fagan because he had the aura about him after working at the Hawks and with Clarko. Players to a degree too - I think Fagan's reputation had some influence on Neale joining us for sure.

However, after the last 2 years, with a combination of no change in tactics, losing finals, Fagan's laughable press conferences all of that currency would be gone. After watching how the lions play in high stakes games and seeing Fagan's press conferences - who would think yeah I want to the Lions to develop myself further as a coach?

 

[Bucking Beads]

 

[irish]

We look lost in direction at the moment , fages is taking criticism for the first time , honeymoon is well over.

Not sure sitting in the dugout is working , needs to get up,these blokes , it’s more of a holiday than a football game at the moment

We lack spine and assertive leadership

 

[Nuggo]

We are Melbourne's Bunnies, so that hss a lot to do with psychology, which is a coaching issue. We may not be as good but we aren't that bad either.

 

[RoyBoy17]

I just can’t believe how hesitant/ in denial we are about making changes. It’s ridiculous. Lyons for instance has been putrid all year. It’s clear as a day on replays how he doesn’t run/ gets destroyed in transition. Yet we play him every week. Continuously selecting Gardiner when he’s been awful. Not trying to free up Andrews for something different. Playing Answerth every week. Keeping talented players in the reserves rather than drip feed them games whilst we have a good side. We are so soft and predictable as a coaching group. I wonder if Dan Rich ever had a hard word put on him about rocking up to pre season out of shape (as a leader mind you). Our coaches don’t have a ruthless streak that I think is required (in a respectful way) to help get a bit of mongrel in our playing group. Instead what happens is we breed complacency and a lack of hard edge when push comes to shove against the best. That’s on the coaching group.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I just can’t believe how hesitant/ in denial we are about making changes. It’s ridiculous. Lyons for instance has been putrid all year. It’s clear as a day on replays how he doesn’t run/ gets destroyed in transition. Yet we play him every week. Continuously selecting Gardiner when he’s been awful. Not trying to free up Andrews for something different. Playing Answerth every week. Keeping talented players in the reserves rather than drip feed them games whilst we have a good side. We are so soft and predictable as a coaching group. I wonder if Dan Rich ever had a hard word put on him about rocking up to pre season out of shape (as a leader mind you). Our coaches don’t have a ruthless streak that I think is required (in a respectful way) to help get a bit of mongrel in our playing group. Instead what happens is we breed complacency and a lack of hard edge when push comes to shove against the best. That’s on the coaching group.

100% correct. We have ZERO club culture. We are the worst down hill skiers in the AFL, which is why we choke in big games and Fagan has a 1-5 finals record. Under Fagan players have become protected species. This rot started when Fagan refused to drop Rayner when he was in terrible form in his first year, continued when selecting a shockingly out of form McStay week after week in 2020 and in his tendency to always give games to Adams, McStay, Gardiner, Lyons, Rich and Answerth irrespective of form. At the same time, there were players like Robertson, Lester, Mathieson and Fullerton playing great footy in the reserves but being completely ignored. Just contrast the way that Fagan has stuck with some players with his ‘hair trigger’ when it comes to dropping Prior, Payne, Madden, Robertson, Fort and even Ah Chee.

The consequence is that we have a culture of complacency at Brisbane among those senior players who know they will be selected no matter what. The most obvious case in point at the moment is Darcy Gardiner, who is in putrid and embarrassing form, but who Fagan will select before an in form Ryan Lester for no logical reason.

Fagan has shown himself to be stubborn at the selection table and far too willing to hand out repeat mulligans. After our most recent debacle on Friday night, where Brisbane were humbled by Melbourne in front of a full house at home and a national television audience, Fagan was banging on at the presser about the fact that we won the second half! Seriously! We were 66 points down at half time and we ended up losing by 58 points and that was the consolation?! In the meantime our ‘Captain’ Zorko is vilifying the family member of an opponent in order to gain some sort of competitive advantage? What a flog!

The buck for all of this stops with Chris Fagan.

 

[Viceregal]

iirc Lyons does a great job of preparation and professionalism so even though we extended his contract for x years (no comment) that is money already committed and if he has ambitions to coach would he thrive on a kind of ressies leader on-field coach type role evening knowing that his place in the seniors is done barring extreme emergency or showing by consistent form that he is able to perform at the level that got him the extension in the first place?

Maybe he and Neale could work with the mids combined seniors and ressies to develop the players to play the needed roles in a Lion's midfield set up (which they might need to brainstorm with whoever the midfield coach is to work out what that is/should be to be a legit finals threat)?

I presume there is some pathway of feedback between the players and the line coaches on what is and isn't working on the field?

I hope there is also some communication and interactivity between the different line coaches re what should be done when we have it, they have it and when it is contested.

What I would really love is if any senior player fails to meet certain pre-agreed benchmarks (not so much touches but things like running back in defense etc) then they are playing ressies and replaced by the best performing in their position from there who stays until they don't measure up. It would be interesting to let the players themselves (individually and as a group) set the standards themselves and have the coaches enforce them.

 

[3KZ is Football]

We need a new coach.

Round 23: Chris Fagan Press Conference

Watch Brisbane's press conference after round 23's match against Melbourne

www.lions.com.au

 

[M Malice]

What about Ben Rutten

Ben Rutten

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.4

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.0

3star

as an assistant, might want to get out of the footy bubble.... plenty of guys who don't make it as senior coaches make seemingly great assistants eg. Justin Leppitsch

Justin Leppitsch

Age

49

Ht

191cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

0.6

1star

T

1.0

3star

, Brendon Bolton.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

What about Ben Rutten as an assistant, might want to get out of the footy bubble.... plenty of guys who don't make it as senior coaches make seemingly great assistants eg. Justin Leppitsch, Brendon Bolton.

 

[Macca225]

What about Ben Rutten as an assistant, might want to get out of the footy bubble.... plenty of guys who don't make it as senior coaches make seemingly great assistants eg. Justin Leppitsch, Brendon Bolton.

If Mark McVeigh doesn't get the GWS job he might be an option as well

 

[Saucery]

What about Ben Rutten as an assistant, might want to get out of the footy bubble.... plenty of guys who don't make it as senior coaches make seemingly great assistants eg. Justin Leppitsch, Brendon Bolton.

Ben was Richmond's defensive coach 2014-17, including the grand final. Definitely worth a chat to.

 

[M Malice]

What about Mick Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy Morbidly_Obese?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Ben was Richmond's defensive coach 2014-17, including the grand final. Definitely worth a chat to.

Leppa and Daly were there too

 

[Gibbo_88]

Plenty of people on here wanting changes to the team, Lyons out etc. I'm all for it with how Zorko and Lyons have been playing but I really can't see 1-2 players changing making a difference to what our problem is. Team defence or our defensive strategy has to be our biggest problem and it has to change. If you change Lyons for Dev and Wilmot for Rich that doesn't change the fact that gun players like Cameron, Bailey, Rayner, Andrews, Danniher have all had plenty of games where they haven't looked good enough (some of it has been injury). We've got so much talent in our forward line and we've been the highest scoring team but it feels like we also miss a lot of opportunities to close games out when we've got momentum. I am looking forward to the change of Mcstay leaving, hopefully we stop playing 3 tall forwards, it's not working.

I've heard Fagan mention that our transition to defence from turnovers or a behind hasn't been quick enough. Is it ball watching? Are some mids sitting back and watching once the ball gets in our forward 50 instead of moving into a defensive position? Whatever it is we've apparently been working on but it's obviously not an easy fix with our game style. Hope we're playing a different style next year, it feels like every team has us figured out.

 

[Nunez]

Rutten is a very good assistant coach. Would definitely be keen on him if he's down.

 

[Saucery]

100% correct. We have ZERO club culture. We are the worst down hill skiers in the AFL, which is why we choke in big games and Fagan has a 1-5 finals record. Under Fagan players have become protected species. This rot started when Fagan refused to drop Rayner when he was in terrible form in his first year, continued when selecting a shockingly out of form McStay week after week in 2020 and in his tendency to always give games to Adams, McStay, Gardiner, Lyons, Rich and Answerth irrespective of form. At the same time, there were players like Robertson, Lester, Mathieson and Fullerton playing great footy in the reserves but being completely ignored. Just contrast the way that Fagan has stuck with some players with his ‘hair trigger’ when it comes to dropping Prior, Payne, Madden, Robertson, Fort and even Ah Chee.

The consequence is that we have a culture of complacency at Brisbane among those senior players who know they will be selected no matter what. The most obvious case in point at the moment is Darcy Gardiner, who is in putrid and embarrassing form, but who Fagan will select before an in form Ryan Lester for no logical reason.

Fagan has shown himself to be stubborn at the selection table and far too willing to hand out repeat mulligans. After our most recent debacle on Friday night, where Brisbane were humbled by Melbourne in front of a full house at home and a national television audience, Fagan was banging on at the presser about the fact that we won the second half! Seriously! We were 66 points down at half time and we ended up losing by 58 points and that was the consolation?! In the meantime our ‘Captain’ Zorko is vilifying the family member of an opponent in order to gain some sort of competitive advantage? What a flog!

The buck for all of this stops with Chris Fagan.

Yeah pretty sure Will Ashcroft mentioned that we had "ZERO club culture" and are the "worst down hill skiers in the AFL" when he nominated to join us.

Seriously though, such denigration of our senior coach is starting to reach Trumipan levels of delusion.

 

[M Malice]

One thing I would like to see Fages try is go up to the coaches box and get a broader view of the game, send one of the assistants down to the bench.... would be next year though, no way he would make that change right now.

 

[SizeMatters]

I feel like Fagan doesn't actually coach that much he's more game day manager.
Fagan style has always been to reduce risks - both in game plan and players selected.

It's like he has reduced everything down to stats and if anything is a percentage point better off on the day he'll go down that route. Prob why we get has beens still in best 22 as they are a known quantity.

Definitely need a coaching review after this. Wouldn't mind looking at Hird or Buckley or even Rutten. Someone outside the system that has been around highly rated assistants or have been head coaches themselves. Would also look to bring back Noble at all costs as GM of Football.

Get some leadership, get some fresh views. Get someone with a voice.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

What about Mick Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy Morbidly_Obese?

Is Mick Malthouse still alive?

 

[Squizz89]

It wouldn’t be the end of the world if we lose the elimination final, as I think everyone (if not the majority) accept now we aren’t winning the flag this year.

After being top 4 for the last 3 years, this was definitely the year I rated our chances the least, even if we had snuck into the 4. We’ve been off all year, both individually and collectively even when we were banking wins earlier in the year.

What this could allow us to do is reset and really look at what we need to get right both from a coaching and playing personnel perspective as well as any changes required to the game plan.

Have some tough conversations with the older players who have been great servants for us, but let them know they will now be picked on merit instead of deeds from the past. Open the captaincy up and see who wants to to grab the leadership position with both hands.

If we can nail the trade period, we know we’ve got a couple of gun kids coming through the draft, as well hopefully bringing in a new assistant or 2 then hopefully that can set us up to take that next step.

It didn’t hurt Geelong in 2006 or Richmond in 2016.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Worst case scenario now is we get pick 11. Will help out with the points situation

 

[Thomasno]

Surely we have to give Davis the boot and throw some money at Rutten, right?

I’d be trying to see what else we can offer the likes of Lappin or Power to come home and sort out midfield out. Our midfield actively regressed this year from the last 3 years, and I’m starting to see why Bruce was moved on from 2 clubs previously.

Maybe unpopular but I’m not necessarily against Adcock in the forward line because our forwards are clearly getting the job done for the most part, there’s just not much you can do when the only entry’s you’re getting are massive high bombs

 

[MSB ROYS]

Is Mick Malthouse still alive?

Last I heard from him was that Essendon was his tip for this year's flag!

 

[BRAB]

Noble seemed to balance Fagan well. Bring him back