Coach Fages and the coaching group

[pod17]

Stop with the Joe stuff already, christ. He hasn’t been “poor all year”, he was fantastic until he got injured and now is still playing injured because we don’t have anyone else to replace him with.

He’ll get surgery in a few weeks and be right for next year.

As PattyK has said, played hurt after the Swans game which has limited his impact.

However, when you look at what other key forwards are being paid around the league, for the money he is taking up in our cap, I don’t think his output has been good enough. He is on far more than Chol, Marshall, Curnow, Wright, probably Walker and a few others.

He’s on very similar money to Lynch and Cameron - who have consistently performed to a high standard this year (and in previous years) and stood up when the game is there to be won for their teams. Factoring in his performances in big games like last year’s finals, it’s not unfair to say a lot more is needed to justify what we are paying him.

Clearly, our performances in the back half of the year have been due to a number of factors outside of Joe too, but when we need to trade in some talent, the cap space he is occupying becomes a factor.

Just on the coaching group, I’m not expecting wholesale changes outside of those that are forced for the Tigers. Lyons and a few others are battling, but there aren’t necessarily stand out options to call on from the twos. Dev is maybe one - but under finals intensity it would be a huge call to drop a best 22 player from the last four years.

 

[jjami15]

I truly wonder what happens in the off-season. None of us are inside the AFL world (right?) so who really knows what happens inside the four walls. On the other hand I feel like that most of us have a very good understanding of the game and it is highly evident that after 3 years this ship ain’t travelling right. As coach or coaching team you would have to think that they themselves can see that something has to change. Please lord let them wake up!

Happy to see the media finally make some strong statements about the team but fee the Zorko debacle will actually take away from our deplorable game.

 

[Hollow Knight]

This Zorko saga is not going away.....headline story atm on both HUN and DailyMail.

The club really needs to make a statement by standing him down and taking the captaincy off him. At least to be seen doing something because right now it looks like a very poor response from us.

I’ll do you a deal. I’ll get the club to stand him down if you stop reading the Daily Mail.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Absolute ******* disgrace, hope the man realised he’s garbage at his job then and steps down for the betterment of the club.

How do people come up with this crap?

 

[SRH17]

How do people come up with this crap?

And how would he have any idea that Murray is “garbage” at his job.

 

[mpal6]

This Zorko saga is not going away.....headline story atm on both HUN and DailyMail.

The club really needs to make a statement by standing him down and taking the captaincy off him. At least to be seen doing something because right now it looks like a very poor response from us.

This is bound to happen with Essendon's season ending, Rutten sacked, Clarko signed and there is nothing much to discuss about bottom teams.

We'll be getting roasted for 2 weeks as they need something to keep the narrative going.

 

[Squizz89]

This is bound to happen with Essendon's season ending, Rutten sacked, Clarko signed and there is nothing much to discuss about bottom teams.

We'll be getting roasted for 2 weeks as they need something to keep the narrative going.

Yeah as I said in the other thread mate the way Daly was talking this morning, he almost sounded dumbfounded that people would be calling for Dayne’s head after this. His main concern was for Dayne’s welfare “after a tough weekend for him”.

I’ve got some advice for Dayne. Don’t carry on like a dickhead all the time and you wont have to cop a “tough weekend”.

 

[On the quiet]

And how would he have any idea that Murray is “garbage” at his job.

Correct we have no idea, but unless we make a Prelim: could be a strong argument we are regressing and there needs to be some changes and that should include some of the assistants. Davis has been there a long time and some of the others so perhaps there needs to be a refresh.

Apart from the Dogs could argue we have the worst organised defence in the top 8.
I am not a fan of David King, but he did highlight a number of glaring issues with our defence in First Crack, many of them involving our best defender Andrews and other players regarding this apparent zone defence and handing over to other defenders.

 

[MacMum]

I’ll do you a deal. I’ll get the club to stand him down if you stop reading the Daily Mail.

....hmm, what shall it be, Deal or No Deal?

NO DEAL!!

 

[p4p1]

Interested to see what other peoples thoughts are about my take here: I believe we have the personnel to beat Melbourne but is almost solely our game plan vs theirs which doesn’t compete.

Thoughts?

That's a big call. Our forwardline is definitely better, their mids are better and on current form their defence is better but I think that may be due to structure and defensive run etc. I do agree that we have the players to beat Melbourne though.

 

[martinson]

That's a big call. Our forwardline is definitely better, their mids are better and on current form their defence is better but I think that may be due to structure and defensive run etc. I do agree that we have the players to beat Melbourne though.

I don't think we're within a bull's roar of Melbourne player wise and internally ( including here) we overrate a lot of our players. Melbourne have genuine A Grade elite talent and younger players who are emerging as future stars.

There are probably 8 players in our 22 who wouldn't have a hope of getting a game in the current Melbourne lineup.

Indisputable to me on anything I've seen whenever we've played them.

 

[bungalow_bill]

This is bound to happen with Essendon's season ending, Rutten sacked, Clarko signed and there is nothing much to discuss about bottom teams.

Jordan De Goey -- "hold my beer"

 

[brutus76]

Is Bruce ready to step up if Fages took a job elsewhere like being the first Tassie coach? (I'd love him at the Dons)

 

[bungalow_bill]

That's a big call. Our forwardline is definitely better, their mids are better and on current form their defence is better but I think that may be due to structure and defensive run etc. I do agree that we have the players to beat Melbourne though.

We definitely have the same talent, if not more, it's just that the Dees are two or three more years ahead of us in development.

 

[p4p1]

We definitely have the same talent, if not more, it's just that the Dees are two or three more years ahead of us in development.

A surprising stat is how old the teams we field are at the moment. We are only just behind Geelong and 1 or 2 others.
I do strongly believe that some of our youth is at least as good if not surpassed some of the older players we pick week after week.

 

[Thomasno]

As PattyK has said, played hurt after the Swans game which has limited his impact.

However, when you look at what other key forwards are being paid around the league, for the money he is taking up in our cap, I don’t think his output has been good enough. He is on far more than Chol, Marshall, Curnow, Wright, probably Walker and a few others.

He’s on very similar money to Lynch and Cameron - who have consistently performed to a high standard this year (and in previous years) and stood up when the game is there to be won for their teams. Factoring in his performances in big games like last year’s finals, it’s not unfair to say a lot more is needed to justify what we are paying him.

Clearly, our performances in the back half of the year have been due to a number of factors outside of Joe too, but when we need to trade in some talent, the cap space he is occupying becomes a factor.

Just on the coaching group, I’m not expecting wholesale changes outside of those that are forced for the Tigers. Lyons and a few others are battling, but there aren’t necessarily stand out options to call on from the twos. Dev is maybe one - but under finals intensity it would be a huge call to drop a best 22 player from the last four years.

You’ve just contradicted yourself. You said you know he’s playing injured, but then also his output hasn’t been enough. Bruh.

Before he got injured this year he was thereabouts with Cameron/King/Curnow in terms of Coleman ladder.

 

[Thomasno]

And how would he have any idea that Murray is “garbage” at his job.

Well I’ve watched the lions play for the last 10 years. Pre 2018 you can argue was a personnel problem, but since then our defence has been crap.

We did okay in that regard in 2019/2020 based solely on in form talented players, but now that our defenders are down in form the complete lack of accountability in our defensive structure is exposed for all to see.

 

[martinson]

Well I’ve watched the lions play for the last 10 years. Pre 2018 you can argue was a personnel problem, but since then our defence has been crap.

We did okay in that regard in 2019/2020 based solely on in form talented players, but now that our defenders are down in form the complete lack of accountability in our defensive structure is exposed for all to see.

It's been a clear issue that players who propelled our rise up the ladder aren't going as well now as they were when we were an emerging talent.

Whether that's injury/experience/just a phase or they already reached their ceiling we'll see in a year or two.

 

[LionsMaw]

Rutten to be our backline coach? Yay or nay?

 

[western royboy]

Rutten to be our backline coach? Yay or nay?

Yay

 

[pod17]

You’ve just contradicted yourself. You said you know he’s playing injured, but then also his output hasn’t been enough. Bruh.

Before he got injured this year he was thereabouts with Cameron/King/Curnow in terms of Coleman ladder.

No - I am talking for the entirety of his time with us he has not delivered anywhere near enough to justify the wage we are paying him. I am saying the injury sustained in the Swans game may explain why he has been so poor in recent times - below his overall contribution.

Agree to disagree on being thereabouts with Cameron and the rest. Older than both King and Curnow - playing in a better side with some great users delivering to him - yet both with season tallies that would mark Joe's best outside his 2017 year.

 

[Ironmonger]

I'm not a fan of succession plans, but maybe there's some sort of happy medium where we bring in an experienced assistant with an eye to a future gig, and give them a soft promise that they'll be the first candidate considered if Fagan does decide to move on.

If Adem Yze

Adem Yze

Age

47

Ht

187cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

0.6

1star

T

0.6

3star

misses out on the GWS gig he'd be an obvious choice. He might also have some advice on how we can bloody well beat the Demons.

Alternatively, maybe some like Brad Scott or Don Pyke would be interested in bringing their insights and seniority to a beefed up assistant role.

One way or the other I think we need a strong new voice in the coaching team.

 

[Tom14]

I'm not a fan of succession plans, but maybe there's some sort of happy medium where we bring in an experienced assistant with an eye to a future gig, and give them a soft promise that they'll be the first candidate considered if Fagan does decide to move on.

If Adem Yze misses out on the GWS gig he'd be an obvious choice. He might also have some advice on how we can bloody well beat the Demons.

Alternatively, maybe some like Brad Scott or Don Pyke would be interested in bringing their insights and seniority to a beefed up assistant role.

One way or the other I think we need a strong new voice in the coaching team.

Think Pyke is a non-starter as a senior coach due to the crows camp. But agree with the overall idea.

 

[p4p1]

No - I am talking for the entirety of his time with us he has not delivered anywhere near enough to justify the wage we are paying him. I am saying the injury sustained in the Swans game may explain why he has been so poor in recent times - below his overall contribution.

Agree to disagree on being thereabouts with Cameron and the rest. Older than both King and Curnow - playing in a better side with some great users delivering to him - yet both with season tallies that would mark Joe's best outside his 2017 year.

Most of those teams though make space for their key forwards or help them out with blocks etc a lot more than we do.

 

[Thomasno]

No - I am talking for the entirety of his time with us he has not delivered anywhere near enough to justify the wage we are paying him. I am saying the injury sustained in the Swans game may explain why he has been so poor in recent times - below his overall contribution.

Agree to disagree on being thereabouts with Cameron and the rest. Older than both King and Curnow - playing in a better side with some great users delivering to him - yet both with season tallies that would mark Joe's best outside his 2017 year.

Again, all we really have to compare to is that period at the start of this year before the injury, and he was absolutely on their level.

You can’t compare that to last year as for most of the year we were playing him as a backup ruck/third tall. Which, again, he was pretty good at before hipwood went down and our structure went to shit.