Coach Fages and the coaching group

[McIvor]

Its not unique to supporters of the Lions. People want to find a negative to marry up the negative of a team's poor performance. The easiest option is always to blame the coach as a single tangible figurehead. Too difficult to blame the entire team or other less tangible factors.

True, but doesn’t that occur in literally every team sport across the globe?

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I haven't claimed the bold. That is just a bit of shadow boxing.

If people make claims that a highly successful coach should be moved on after a few poor games, which is what happened (you can read back through if you like), then they rightly need to provide some compelling reasons to justify that position. Otherwise, I think I'm justified in forming the view that their opinions aren't substantial or well considered. And no hindsight here, I've maintained the same position the whole way through.

Its not unique to supporters of the Lions. People want to find a negative to marry up the negative of a team's poor performance. The easiest option is always to blame the coach as a single tangible figurehead. Too difficult to blame the entire team or other less tangible factors.

Again you are making claims that are simply not true. If you take out the reactive posts from match day threads then the majority of the discussions revolved around Fagan's coaching future at the Lions without this hyberbole that you are spouting.

Now you may have formed the view that my opinions aren't substantial or well considered but that makes them no less worthy of being posted in this forum.

It's not a competition how smart you sound or what big words or concepts you use, it is a gathering of Brisbane Lions fans here to discuss their club.

So apologies mate but I'm going to keep giving my thoughts until backwards Donald or another mod kicks me off.

Ps. I blame Fagan for our slow start to the season. It was his responsibility to have them ready and he didnt.

 

[Viceregal]

Interestingly my recollection is that a large part of the begone Fagan rhetoric was centred around his reluctance to make changes to the team or its tactics

When we got ACL'd and had to make changes to the playing group there was improvement and the differing elements allowed for increased flexibility in tactics...

Would there have been those changes anyway ... hard to say

Would the bringing in of extra voices in Cochin and Dew have made the same changes ...we will never know.

What we do know is that where we were was unacceptable without knowing precisely why we were there (was definitely a multivariate equation not a simple single variable).

What we do know is that we had a good group ready to step up and that takes someone in the whole squad and organisation to support.

What we also know is that while we started slow we are finishing strongly and isn't that the ideal way to play out the season?

Fagan copped it because things were bad and the buck stops with him ... how much tolerance people were prepared to give him certainly varied but at least we were all united in wanting our Lions to roar all through to September ... even briztoon

 

[M Malice]

So apologies mate but I'm going to keep giving my thoughts until backwards Donald or another mod kicks me off.

Now that is funny, gave me a good giggle.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I won’t be watching another Lions game until Fagan has gone.

Thank you Chris Fagan for bringing stability and respectability to the club after the Paradigm Shift/Crazy Vossy/Leppa years. It’s been a fun couple of years.

Fagan to do the role he did at Hawthorn. Noble to come back...as coach

Anyone want to say Matthew Lloyd is wrong?

Fages has lost the players; it’s plain as day. They don’t play for him whatsoever and the message is stale.

Time to do everyone a favour and pull out stumps and do the honourable thing. Most smart football observers know Fages is cooked and the only thing I’d like to know is why Fages was so adamant pre season that we wouldn’t fall away like most losing GF do. He basically couldn’t have been more wrong and the fact he literally cant get them up anymore (and don’t give me benign wins over North, Suns, Tigers and the odd out of box win against Melbourne) speaks volumes.

From one random page I just flicked to in this thread back in April. Can we at least drop the rhetoric that nobody actually wanted him gone?

 

[Elixuh]

Now you may have formed the view that my opinions aren't substantial or well considered but that makes them no less worthy of being posted in this forum.

It is ok for me to post that I disagree with people's thoughts. It doesn't mean I think they shouldn't post those thoughts. I've not said people shouldn't post their thoughts.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Fages has lost the players

 

[Elixuh]

Fages has lost the players

Nathan, please kindly stop posting your thoughts.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Nathan, please kindly stop posting your thoughts.

Ouch

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Fages has lost the players

Nathan please keep posting your thoughts. I particularly enjoy your match day commentary.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Nathan please keep posting your thoughts. I particularly enjoy your match day commentary.

You are such a contrarian

 

[martinson]

This thread is pretty gruesome reading of the irrelevant.

I do think we now have a better balanced team with the injection of some youth and a more even spread of the load than we had for the first few games.

The big factors have been Zorko, injury free ,new role and his experience has taken the wobbles out of our backline. Cameron ,Ah Chee and Lohman adding defensive strength to the forward line and getting up the ground to do it , evident in the dying stages of yesterday's match. Daniher and Andrews being consistently good every week with Hipwood getting better every year. Neale and Berry getting fitter with matches under the belt and overcoming injury issues. Some debutants coming in and not looking like they were on the training wheels.

The addition of the new coaches seems to have coincided with less problematic tactical issues and we've been a lot steadier in closing out games.

Whether that has everything or not a lot to do with Fagan he's entitled to take the credit just as he was to wear the brunt of criticism when we were poor.

I do think we need to see how the year plays out. No guarantee we can improve on last year's effort, in fact there's a reasonable chance we won't. But we're in the best place we have been all year right now.

 

[davemc_lions]

Would the bringing in of extra voices in Cochin and Dew have made the same changes ...we will never know.

I think we needed a few outside voices of people who have their say.
Always said I see Fagan a great people person.

 

[martinson]

I forgot Rayner. I'd been alluding to the fact that we'd finally found a role that he was happier in and it was interesting to hear Fagan raise that in the PC. The freedom to not be the 3rd tall under the pack or the expectation to burn himself out in the midfield has unleashed the shackles. He's a burst player and we're using him strategically to capitalise on that.

 

[M Malice]

This thread is pretty gruesome reading of the irrelevant.

I do think we now have a better balanced team with the injection of some youth and a more even spread of the load than we had for the first few games.

The big factors have been Zorko, injury free ,new role and his experience has taken the wobbles out of our backline. Cameron ,Ah Chee and Lohman adding defensive strength to the forward line and getting up the ground to do it , evident in the dying stages of yesterday's match. Daniher and Andrews being consistently good every week with Hipwood getting better every year. Neale and Berry getting fitter with matches under the belt and overcoming injury issues. Some debutants coming in and not looking like they were on the training wheels.

The addition of the new coaches seems to have coincided with less problematic tactical issues and we've been a lot steadier in closing out games.

Whether that has everything or not a lot to do with Fagan he's entitled to take the credit just as he was to wear the brunt of criticism when we were poor.

I do think we need to see how the year plays out. No guarantee we can improve on last year's effort, in fact there's a reasonable chance we won't. But we're in the best place we have been all year right now.

Looking at last years Grand Final team, Darcy Gardiner, Keidean Coleman and Linc McCarthy will not be there for a possible 2024 Grand Final(fingers crossed we make it), other 2023 GF players Dev Robertson, Jarryd Lyons and possibly Conor McKenna will need a big turnaround in form and/or some injuries to get in a GF side.

Are we a stronger side with the above players out and the likes of Kai Lohmann, Will Ashcroft, Jack Payne/Darragh Joyce, Bruce Reville, Shadeau Brain, Logan Morris in.

You have to add in natural improvement re individual players and the overall team system to this as well of course.

 

[rye]

wonder if daly takes the west coast job whether dew would be interested in being our footy gm?

 

[martinson]

Looking at last years Grand Final team, Darcy Gardiner, Keidean Coleman and Linc McCarthy will not be there for a possible 2024 Grand Final(fingers crossed we make it), other 2023 GF players Dev Robertson, Jarryd Lyons and possibly Conor McKenna will need a big turnaround in form and/or some injuries to get in a GF side.

Are we a stronger side with the above players out and the likes of Kai Lohmann, Will Ashcroft, Jack Payne/Darragh Joyce, Bruce Reville, Shadeau Brain, Logan Morris in.

You have to add in natural improvement re individual players and the overall team system to this as well of course.

Well the very big factor to note is that the 2023 version looks slower, at least on paper.

 

[Squizz89]

Let’s see what they come up with missing arguably our most important player this weekend. It’s intriguing anyway.

 

[martinson]

wonder if daly takes the west coast job whether dew would be interested in being our footy gm?

I wonder if they'd throw the kitchen sink at him.

Of all the untried entities he's the most likely to build the right culture imo.

 

[martinson]

Looking at last years Grand Final team, Darcy Gardiner, Keidean Coleman and Linc McCarthy will not be there for a possible 2024 Grand Final(fingers crossed we make it), other 2023 GF players Dev Robertson, Jarryd Lyons and possibly Conor McKenna will need a big turnaround in form and/or some injuries to get in a GF side.

Are we a stronger side with the above players out and the likes of Kai Lohmann, Will Ashcroft, Jack Payne/Darragh Joyce, Bruce Reville, Shadeau Brain, Logan Morris in.

You have to add in natural improvement re individual players and the overall team system to this as well of course.

I'm not giving up on McKenna . All depends on whether whatever he has wrong with him can be rectified.

 

[KissKiss]

I'm not giving up on McKenna . All depends on whether whatever he has wrong with him can be rectified.

I dont think he was that far off. Was still pulling off some good disposals mixed in with the bad. Just an example of it being late in the year a rest and twos game might freshen him up

 

[martinson]

I've actually been watching Rayner quite a bit these last few weeks since I was a critic of his in respect to aspects of his game, particularly last year.

Just my observation that Cam and Joe have significant similarities in temperament and attitude. To get the best out of them find a role that they're comfortable with and let them play on instinct. Don't take way the exceptional things they can do for the sake of conformity.

Sure you have to wear the stuff ups but over time it wins you games.

 

[Gadzorks]

Naturally the teams current success is only delaying the conversation over what comes next. But it is a conversation that will be had regardless.

Deep thinking happening here now - you're right there is always something next. Until there isn't of course. The choices - have the conversation now about later, or later about now.

Or, just cause this is a footy forum, we can all just talk rubbish constantly, deny any previous comments we made that no longer fit the narrative, make sweeping future predictions that mean absolutely nothing unless they were right then we will claim superior knowledge and thinking ability and just have fun.

 

[McIvor]

From one random page I just flicked to in this thread back in April. Can we at least drop the rhetoric that nobody actually wanted him gone?

So what; at least people post and share their thoughts in real time which many disagree with but what do you want, people either saying nothing ( which there’d be nothing to read on here) or all backslapping one another with the same thoughts.

I think most are happy to be proven wrong on a whole raft of topics or acknowledge they shoot from the hip in the moment where they also look silly afterwards particularly game day threads. I know I don’t think less of them and to be honest like people for actually sharing their views, right, wrong, left of centre, out of the box etc. but personally what I don’t like are the people that don’t post much and rarely offer a view on anything yet always find the need to pot and disrespect people and point them out that they got something wrong or were proven wrong months later with a holier than thou attitude like they’re always right. Well who would know because they never post anything with how or what their thoughts are on a myriad of topics. Conversely, those same posters that do get stuff wrong are also proven correct to but don’t get on here and say I told you so as if the former posters don’t live the club as much as they do.

We’re all here for the same reason, our love of the Lions and because we’re fanatical about the club but well done for finding some old posts that sure haven’t aged well at all but it’s not like things weren’t in a worrying spot either at that time. At least those people are contributing on here.

 

[irish]

Revenge time Mr Dew