Coach Fages and the coaching group

[SeaOfFire]

As for Kingy....yeah, well, whatever.....he's a footy analysis expert who has his own axe to grind at times.

I watched it and felt he gave an underwhelming assessment for whatever reason.

Ultimately, I'll stick fat with Fages, who said during the week (?) that we've won more games than anyone over the past 6 years, so we must do some things right - balance that against Kingy's "you can coach poorly and win" and you end up with a rather incongruous conclusion.

In finals, tactics, skills, execution all play a part and those can be coached and trained. What can't be coached in a week or over a season is the mental aspect, often defined by terms like grit, belief, will to win etc. And Robbo on Monday night opined that Fages might be the master of that aspect of coaching.

When you consider who Kingy played under in his premiership years, it is perhaps reasonable to conclude he doesn't have a capacity to rate or even acknowledge that aspect of footy.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Those football shows are usually scripted, so it was interesting to see Robbo get Kingy so riled up. Normally this would be to create controversy and lead to associated clicks, but this time I think King really lost his composure when he was spruiking a narrative that didn't hold up.

 

[Pride of lions]

So Kingsley coached a team that was run over after having a big lead in week 1 of the finals and then was run over again the next week after having an even bigger lead. And King said he gave a masterclass in coaching! The man is delusional, trying to justify his prejudices by twisting the facts to suit his agenda. And then he turns his aggression on anyone who questions his stupidity. He failed as an assistant coach but makes a good living out of spouting meaningless stats and trying to sound like a tactical genius. Embarrassing to think he is looked upon as an expert.

 

[Gadzorks]

im convinced king is an android controlled by the laptop he carries around everywhere

That's his memory cell. Take it and its "facts" away from him and he just sits there flapping his gums. It's the more intelligent version of him.

 

[Elixuh]

I don’t think we get enough analysis on the lions which makes people think we don’t have tactics lol.

I mean our options down back at the moment are limited by the fact we have 3 best 23 backs injured. And Harris clearly impacts more for us when he’s not locking down a forward. That is Payne’s job and I back him in as fages clearly does. So kingy choosing that hill to die on is a bit typical of the lazy uneducated analysis you come to expect. I mean joe kicked 4.1 on the best defender in the game. The Coleman medalist kicked 5.1 lol. I’d say that’s about even considering Harris was freed up.

We obviously made a number of other moves around the ground on Saturday it’s just they don’t get spoken about.

Eg…Joe kept Taylor away from the contest which limited Taylor’s ability to impact. When we were doing that the commentators were critical of why Joe was playing so deep. Seemed to work out…and won us the game when Kai kicked it in to a genuine 1 on 1.

 

[Elixuh]

So Kingsley coached a team that was run over after having a big lead in week 1 of the finals and then was run over again the next week after having an even bigger lead. And King said he gave a masterclass in coaching! The man is delusional, trying to justify his prejudices by twisting the facts to suit his agenda. And then he turns his aggression on anyone who questions his stupidity. He failed as an assistant coach but makes a good living out of spouting meaningless stats and trying to sound like a tactical genius. Embarrassing to think he is looked upon as an expert.

I think Kingsley is a good coach. But to say it was a coaching masterclass when he let us win from 44 points down midway through the third and after giving up a big lead to Sydney the week before…all the while saying fages is a spud…it’s incoherent.

He has a genuine agenda against fages.

 

[Tom14]

I don’t think we get enough analysis on the lions which makes people think we don’t have tactics lol.

I mean our options down back at the moment are limited by the fact we have 3 best 23 backs injured. And Harris clearly impacts more for us when he’s not locking down a forward. That is Payne’s job and I back him in as fages clearly does. So kingy choosing that hill to die on is a bit typical of the lazy uneducated analysis you come to expect. I mean joe kicked 4.1 on the best defender in the game. The Coleman medalist kicked 5.1 lol. I’d say that’s about even considering Harris was freed up.

We obviously made a number of other moves around the ground on Saturday it’s just they don’t get spoken about.

Eg…Joe kept Taylor away from the contest which limited Taylor’s ability to impact. When we were doing that the commentators were critical of why Joe was playing so deep. Seemed to work out…and won us the game when Kai kicked it in to a genuine 1 on 1.

There was literal recent evidence showing that trying to play Harris on Hogan was a waste of time from just a month ago.

 

[Tom14]

I think Kingsley is a good coach. But to say it was a coaching masterclass when he let us win from 44 points down midway through the third and after giving up a big lead to Sydney the week before…all the while saying fages is a spud…it’s incoherent.

He has a genuine agenda against fages.

I think the half time criticism was pretty fair in some respects even if I didn’t agree with it. It’s the continuing critique after the match turned that has been ridiculous.

Pretty fair to say that Fages probably isn’t the most tactically astute coach. But they treat him like a make-a-wish kid who just gives motivational speeches sometimes.

 

[McIvor]

Full segment with that flog King.



Per that video I posted yesterday with Lloyd and Clarkson, it’s one if the few times that Lloyd didn’t have weak people around him to support his axe against Brisbane and he literally had nowhere to go and was like a deer in the headlights when Clarkson refused to go along with Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

is a masterful coach and Fages has no idea, similar when he was trying to bag Brisbane and again Clarkson was having none of it and backed us.

 

[Elixuh]

I think the half time criticism was pretty fair in some respects even if I didn’t agree with it. It’s the continuing critique after the match turned that has been ridiculous.

Pretty fair to say that Fages probably isn’t the most tactically astute coach. But they treat him like a make-a-wish kid who just gives motivational speeches sometimes.

Agree. think first half was also partly down to basement performance levels on our end and how well gws were playing on the other. We had multiple of our A graders not playing well. Funnily enough it was our role players who were probably doing best.

 

[Elixuh]

My face when David king becomes incoherent again during one of his vendetta rants against grandpa fages

 

[Squizz89]

One thing that is pretty obvious after all this is that Fages & Robbo must've made up after Fages was clearly avoiding the show earlier in the year. No way would Robbo have gone into bat for him like that if they were still not on speaking terms.

 

[Schache_off]

Nailed it - listen from about 45 minutes in for the analysis which has sort of been my criticism all year / for several years

Very heavy Victorian bias in this and it didn't sound like either had really watched the lions play prior to finals. Mentions a lot of Cats players but doesn't talk through any of the lions players. David King may as well have joined in to help with the pre game analysis.
Referring to Zorko as wanting to "stat up" when he's sets up most of our attacking plays and managed to "stat up" enough to get in the All Australian team.
Talk of the lions not putting it together for 4 quarters is a pretty broad comment that applies to Sydney and Geelong over the 2nd half of the season.
Referencing the MCG record of the lions. The record really isn't relevant to the team that's playing this weekend. Over the past 2 years it's 1 win, 4 losses in our 5 games and 2 losses by a point, one by 4 and the biggest "blowout" was 25 points to the Hawks. We've had 423 points for, 432 against in that time.

 

[Gadzorks]

Full segment with that flog King.



Per that video I posted yesterday with Lloyd and Clarkson, it’s one if the few times that Lloyd didn’t have weak people around him to support his axe against Brisbane and he literally had nowhere to go and was like a deer in the headlights when Clarkson refused to go along with Chris Scott is a masterful coach and Fages has no idea, similar when he was trying to bag Brisbane and again Clarkson was having none of it and backed us.

What a flog. If you swap the teams with last week's result he would have been fagan's coaching lost that.

Please please win this week.

 

[martinson]

If we win this week unfortunately they'll probably jump on our bandwagon.

Some of the criticisms of our tactics are fair enough . Good coaches who never quite managed to win flags have always copped heaps for poor tactics. Bob Rose , Wallace, Thomas, Eade , Lyon ,Buckley , the list goes on and on.

The high majority of media footy analysis is just overreaction to who's hot and who's not which is basically the fans of the former wanting to hear how good they are and the fans/haters of the latter wanting to know more about how crap they are.

 

[mpal6]

If we win this week unfortunately they'll probably jump on our bandwagon.

Some of the criticisms of our tactics are fair enough . Good coaches who never quite managed to win flags have always copped heaps for poor tactics. Bob Rose , Wallace, Thomas, Eade , Lyon ,Buckley , the list goes on and on.

The high majority of media footy analysis is just overreaction to who's hot and who's not which is basically the fans of the former wanting to hear how good they are and the fans/haters of the latter wanting to know more about how crap they are.

Nah, if Sydney gets through it'll be minor premiers bandwagon that'll look attractive for them.

Kingy will be like - Longmire master coach, Heeney/Gulden/Warner awesome threesome, Grundy premiership ruck... aaarghh my head's going to explode !!

 

[martinson]

I don't think there's any doubt that Kingsley is a good coach but because he coaches GWS where they draw under 20k for a cut throat final he tends to get off scot free. There's just not the media interest in bagging him. The narrative is that he's basically doing a very good job.

If Brisbane had produced exactly what GWS did in its two finals Fagan would have had an outburst of criticism like you've never seen. Because the talking heads in the media have run with the story that Brisbane have the best list but are flakey under pressure for some time and they'd just love to double down on it with the Itoldyas every time we stumble.

Fwiiw I think we overrate some of our players and are a good side but not there as a champion one.

 

[BangyBangy]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

 

[martinson]

The other narrative that they just can't get away from is that Joe Daniher is flakey and he redeemed himself on Saturday. These guys just make things up. He's been AA squad last 2 years and unlucky not to be AA. Before that he played half a year where he couldn't lift his arm over his head and still had impact. He's been a very good finals player. He brings people through the gate.

On any measure he's a consistent ,great player.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Last week Kingy couldn't wait to smash Fages and double down on his point during the game (wanted the old 'SEE I TOLD YOU SO' moment), he let us all know at qtr time last week, was so confident of our demise that he doubled down at half time, post game he steered away from giving any form of credit to our coaching staff and decided to gloss over some of Kingleys own coaching blunders.

The coaching masterclass he talks about was to put Bedford on Neale and Peatling on Zorko (real original mind bending stuff). Like what does he want Fagan to do? Put Zorko to Full Forward. Zorko gets goals kicked on him every week, it's not new. Zorko also kicked two on Peatling in the second half and helped drag us over the line. His forward runs from the back half were crucial. I would argue persisting with Peatling on Zorko was also stupid and ran its course by halfway through the third. Peatling destroyed us at stoppage in the last game we played and the master coach took him away from his strength to try and quell Zorko. At no stage did Kingsley change this when we got going at stoppage. He fails to bring this up.

We also made a move to put Ashcroft at centre bounce which changed the game. Why didn't Bedford go to Ashcroft when Neale was clearly on one leg late and having little impact in the game? He fails to bring this up.

I am the first to admit that Chris Fagan probably doesn't have the tactical nous of a few others in the league. But the only move you could potentially be critical of Fagan was having Payne on Hogan all game. Which in the end, despite their early edge at stoppage didn't win them the game.

 

[martinson]

Last week Kingy couldn't wait to smash Fages and double down on his point during the game (wanted the old 'SEE I TOLD YOU SO' moment), he let us all know at qtr time last week, was so confident of our demise that he doubled down at half time, post game he steered away from giving any form of credit to our coaching staff and decided to gloss over some of Kingleys own coaching blunders.

The coaching masterclass he talks about was to put Bedford on Neale and Peatling on Zorko (real original mind bending stuff). Like what does he want Fagan to do? Put Zorko to Full Forward. Zorko gets goals kicked on him every week, it's not new. Zorko also kicked two on Peatling in the second half and helped drag us over the line. His forward runs from the back half were crucial. I would argue persisting with Peatling on Zorko was also stupid and ran its course by halfway through the third. Peatling destroyed us at stoppage in the last game we played and the master coach took him away from his strength to try and quell Zorko. At no stage did Kingsley change this when we got going at stoppage. He fails to bring this up.

We also made a move to put Ashcroft at centre bounce which changed the game. Why didn't Bedford go to Ashcroft when Neale was clearly on one leg late and having little impact in the game? He fails to bring this up.

I am the first to admit that Chris Fagan probably doesn't have the tactical nous of a few others in the league. But the only move you could potentially be critical of Fagan was having Payne on Hogan all game. Which in the end, despite their early edge at stoppage didn't win them the game.

Payne worried me but we made a judgement that Payne with his knee issue was a better bet than Joyce who has had a jaw issue.

After that there weren't any options unless we wanted to disrupt our back half and expose Payne even more up the field.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Why didn't Kingsley move Taylor off Daniher after the 3rd goal? Clueless. They would have won the game.

King would be that w***er who changes lanes in a traffic jam beacuse he thinks other lanes are moving faster.

 

[Tom14]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

He can't even be bothered to get that basic fact right - if we are talking just about players we drafted, its 10 top 20 picks (Starce, Ashy, clug, Cam, Bez, Eric, Zac, Kai, Jaspa, Motty). If we include players traded in, it is 12 with Cal and Joe added.

It would not be hard to do a quick search of previous david king opinions to find him criticising many of those players. Eric definitely, Cam and Zac for sure. He criticised Clug for being a front-runner on several, several occasions too.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I really don't think Fages is that bad tactically, if you consider 'backing your players in' as a genuine in game tactic. He clearly has insitlled a system that works so making dramatic personnel changes makes little sense for a team like us

 

[M Malice]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

If only we had Jack Watts and Josh Schache as our key forwards... we'd be going for back to back this season.