Father-son and Academy bidding

[The Falcon Strike]

So is Heeney worth #2 or is it more s strategic move against the bidding system?

Paul Roos making a strategic bid to scuttle Sydney? ok...

 

[ManOfClay]

Moore was your only opportunity of getting one of the gun KPF's.

Probably, but seeing as you are so sure what's going to happen would you be able to give me a hint about tomorrow's lottery numbers?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Waterman rating sure went down after the U-18 Champs where people where saying they had to use a 1st Rounder on him

I'm hoping that is West Coast fiddling with the draft... though i don't have that much faith in them to be that creative

 

[liz]

Can't read anything much into who bid for Heeney. Whoever it was was never going to get them. But Roos would know Heeney better than most, given he was the Swans Academy coach for several years.

 

[Scotland]

So Melbourne bid pick 2 on Heeney, OK.

Is that the highest bid or the only bid? I find it hard to believe a kid worth pick 2 to one club isn't worth anywhere from pick 3-16 to the others.

 

[Membling]

So Melbourne bid pick 2 on Heeney, OK.

Is that the highest bid or the only bid? I find it hard to believe a kid worth pick 2 to one club isn't worth anywhere from pick 3-16 to the others.

They stop bidding if a bid is put up and allow the team to respond immediately. No point going through all if one club bids early.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Roos wants two mids, we were never going to get Heeney but he'd be happy to have Brayshaw and him.

 

[coryne]

So Melbourne bid pick 2 on Heeney, OK.

Is that the highest bid or the only bid? I find it hard to believe a kid worth pick 2 to one club isn't worth anywhere from pick 3-16 to the others.

Only 1 bid gets made. There would be no point in Carlton bidding #6 as Melbourne #2 trumps it anyway. Once a bid is in the only thing that matters is if the original club matches it or if the bidding club gets the player.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

I know Heeney will be a damn good player but was he legitimately #2 in the draft ??? Or did Melbourne bidding with #2 more highlight/exaggerate the issues with the academy than reflect his true value?

Id suppose his value to Roos would be pretty high given he was the academy coach for a number of years and probably has knowledge of what the kid is like, also given Roos doesn't typically rate draft picks that highly, being happy to trade them for a decent player are what contributed to #2 being bid.

In saying that Sydney were always going to match it, so maybe there is some game playing here?

Im actually more surprised at the round 2 bid for Hiscox, and the no bid for Waterman?
Did Freo really rate Hiscox that highly, and did no club think a round 2/3 bid on Waterman would be matched?

 

[Scotland]

Only 1 bid gets made. There would be no point in Carlton bidding #6 as Melbourne #2 trumps it anyway. Once a bid is in the only thing that matters is if the original club matches it or if the bidding club gets the player.

All that matters for Sydney in this case is if anyone bids at all. No bids, he's pick 70 or so.

They've got 17, 35, 43, 71 or similar. Someone bids 34, they take him at 35. Someone bids 16, they take him at 17. Surely there is some sort of back and forth? 2 vs 6 vs 10 etc. only matters if the Swans don't match with pick 17.

 

[Membling]

All that matters for Sydney in this case is if anyone bids at all. No bids, he's pick 70 or so.

They've got 17, 35, 43, 71 or similar. Someone bids 34, they take him at 35. Someone bids 16, they take him at 17. Surely there is some sort of back and forth? 2 vs 6 vs 10 etc. only matters if the Swans don't match with pick 17.

Ah no.

If a team that bids then their bid is automatically locked to player. So if Swans didn't match with 17 then dees locked into taking him pick 2. As they are the highest pick they have rights and no back and forth.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Ah no.

If a team that bids then their bid is automatically locked to player. So if Swans didn't match with 17 then dees locked into taking him pick 2. As they are the highest pick they have rights and no back and forth.

Yeah but this is because the bidding is done in draft order, which means we avoid the possibility of a club bidding pick 10 before another club bidding pick 8 etc.

ie 1st bid is always the highest that another club is willing to pay because it is done in draft order.

 

[Membling]

Yeah but this is because the bidding is done in draft order, which means we avoid the possibility of a club bidding pick 10 before another club bidding pick 8 etc.

ie 1st bid is always the highest that another club is willing to pay because it is done in draft order.

Illustrating the point that it doesn't matter if picks above the first bid are used as it will always go to the highest bidder if bid unmatched.

 

[hazzathehack]

Stop sooking Pies fans, no such thing as a free lunch in the father/son game anymore. I don't recall North fans throwing toys out of the cot when the Coasters forced them to use their first rounder on Luke McDonald

If for example north or collingwood had finished last on the ladder which pick would have they had to use to secure these guys. who could have bid against them. how does it work.

 

[HawkintheTuarts]

Exactly, it was a no brainer to nominate for him but does #2 really reflect his value? I thought he was more a #5 selection. Melbourne nominating with #2 gives the impression that Sydney have make a mockery of the bidding system, getting him with a selection 15 spots from where the bid comes from and puts pressure on change in the future. If someone closer to Sydney made the nominating then the pressure wouldn't be as high.


So is Heeney worth #2 or is it more s strategic move against the bidding system?

It means Melbourne rate him similar enough to Brayshaw, and as a top 5 talent. They would also not necessarily know how other clubs rate him, so went "early" on him because at end of the day, Sydney only had to give up the same pick for him whether it was Melbourne with 2 or Port Adelaide with 17.

For metropolitan Perth sure. But rural kids from the North West certainly could benefit from such an academy.

Heeney is proof that intervention and long term development through AFL clubs has drastic benefits for young players. The problems are just starting for the academy system and it's bias.

Read the article about Jermaine Lewis-Miller's route to the draft. There's opportunity there's for those kids. Recent example of drafted player with opportunity has been Josh Simpson at Fremantle.

None of that proves why the Northern clubs can't have the academies they are running now. Heeney isn't the only Academy eligible player for Sydney either, neither are Hiscox and Davis. So those that miss out, what do they prove?

 

[Brettox]

Why doesn't the AFL give all clubs an academy.

Eagles have first dibs to bid on an East Perth player, Freo with Peel. Same with the Adelaide teams.

The Melbourne teams can bid on players from their region. Perfectly confusing system then.

 

[goodie23]

Makes sense for Gold Coast and Western Sydney to have academies, help them grow the game in those areas and make up for the lack of father-sons. With Brisbane it's a little questionable, could be seen as helping them bring them out of their slump. Why exactly do Sydney need and deserve an academy?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Why exactly do Sydney need and deserve an academy?

How about the fact that the only academy selection has been Brandon Jack, now stop the press the inequalities of Brandon Jack's 20 odd games! You realise that without these academies these good players are playing NRL (and other sports). It is a good thing these players will be playing AFL. I have no issue stopping the academies IF the AFL pay for it entirely.

 

[Aussie Joe]

Why doesn't the AFL give all clubs an academy.

Eagles have first dibs to bid on an East Perth player, Freo with Peel. Same with the Adelaide teams.

The Melbourne teams can bid on players from their region. Perfectly confusing system then.

You mean like recruiting zones? Because some clubs will put zero resources into their zones and complain the bigger clubs have unfair advantage because they have better areas. It's why St Kilda cries they were so bad in the 1980's because the Hawks, Blues, Bombers had "better" zones. The draft was supposed to eliminate this unfairness. Oh, the irony!!

 

[Demonheart]

How about the fact that the only academy selection has been Brandon Jack, now stop the press the inequalities of Brandon Jack's 20 odd games! You realise that without these academies these good players are playing NRL (and other sports). It is a good thing these players will be playing AFL. I have no issue stopping the academies IF the AFL pay for it entirely.

So? Why should a top club like Sydney have it's own zone? You haven't answered that question. So Jack plays NRL, by your reasoning that's one player, so what. The fundamental question is that it further opens up the gap of inequality of the competition. GWs & GCS I understand. Brisbane and Sydney is just a rort.

 

[bergholt]

I'm hoping that is West Coast fiddling with the draft... though i don't have that much faith in them to be that creative

Jack Darling?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Jack Darling?

I'd like to think that was us.. But it also requires the player to want to come to us as well

My understanding is Jack had his heart set on joining the Gold Coast. Plus he was actively promoting himself to all and sundry.

Sure we his players in the early 90s, but not anymore.

I'd be in equal measures surprised and elated if we were, I just don't think our lads are that competent (albeit playing at the edges of the rules)

 

[Kummerspeck]

You mean like recruiting zones? Because some clubs will put zero resources into their zones and complain the bigger clubs have unfair advantage because they have better areas. It's why St Kilda cries they were so bad in the 1980's because the Hawks, Blues, Bombers had "better" zones. The draft was supposed to eliminate this unfairness. Oh, the irony!!

Uh, they did have better zones. St Kilda lost a massive chunk of their recruiting zones when the country zones were created and the boundaries for some city areas were re-done. I'm interested to see any evidence that the four clubs who won flags during that period invested significantly more resources into thei areas.

 

[The Passenger]

I noticed in the bidding process with Harris Andrews (Brisbane Academy), North big it's round two selection which Brisbane matched with it's fourth round selection. What happened to either clubs third round picks? North would have bid their third round pick if that's all it took to get him, whilst Brisbane would have had to match it with their third round bid if North bid their second?

 

[jackess]

I noticed in the bidding process with Harris Andrews (Brisbane Academy), North big it's round two selection which Brisbane matched with it's fourth round selection. What happened to either clubs third round picks? North would have bid their third round pick if that's all it took to get him, whilst Brisbane would have had to match it with their third round bid if North bid their second?

Brisbane's third round pick was used on Dawson when Richmond bid on him 3 picks earlier.