First 22 in 2023

[On the quiet]

This next season will be very important to Payne. He's still only 23 years of age but he has been in the system long enough now to perform more consistently and use his size to his advantage. I hope this year he takes the next step and can cement a key defender role which will be fascinating as to what will happen with our back 6 if this does occur.

Not that stats mean everything, especially those uncontested possessions and kicks when backlines are kicking among themselves across field racking up the disposals, but based on the below stats, not sure why you state next season is very important to Payne. I do believe it is a big year for Payne, but only to determine where his playing future is beyond 2023. Below are some interesting stats that compares Adams, Gardiner and Payne via footywire.

After only 5 games in 2020 Payne was ranked among the rising stars
4th contested possessions
2nd for 1%
5th for intercept marks.

Clangers: Gardiner averages 2.0 clangers per game for 2022 and around 2.5 for about 4 years previously. Adams averages 2.6 for 2022 and 2.8 for 2021. Payne 1.4 clangers per game in 2022 and 1.5 in 2021.
FA Gardiner gives away per game 1.0 in 2022 and 1.1 in 2021. Adams 0.9 in both 2022 and 2021. Payne 0.2 in 2022 and 0.5 in 2021.
Goal Assist Gardiner 0 in 2022. 0.1 in 2021 and 2020. Adams goal assist 0.3 in 2022, 0.1 in 2021. Payne goal assist 0.2 in 2022 and 0.1 in 2021.
Rebound 50's Gardiner 2.5 in 2022, 1.9 in 2021 & 2020. Adams R50's 3.6 in 2022, 3.5 in 2021. Payne R50's 3.3 in 2022, 1.7 in 2021.
Tackles Gardiner 1.5 in 2022, 1.4 in 2020. Adams 1.3 in 2022. Payne 1.8 in 2022, 1.6 in 2021
Inside 50's Gardiner 0.7 in 2022. Adams 1.2 in 2022. Payne 1.1 in 2022.

Interesting stats, when you consider that the past three years Payne is dropped as soon as Gardiner and Adams are fit.

I am going to have a closer look at Devs and Priors stats also, because to me they are in a similar spot to Payne, having some upside but both consistently dropped.

This next season will be very important to Payne. He's still only 23 years of age but he has been in the system long enough now to perform more consistently and use his size to his advantage. I hope this year he takes the next step and can cement a key defender role which will be fascinating as to what will happen with our back 6 if this does occur.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

Not that stats mean everything, especially those uncontested possessions and kicks when backlines are kicking among themselves across field racking up the disposals, but based on the below stats, not sure why you state next season is very important to Payne. I do believe it is a big year for Payne, but only to determine where his playing future is beyond 2023. Below are some interesting stats that compares Adams, Gardiner and Payne via footywire.

After only 5 games in 2020 Payne was ranked among the rising stars
4th contested possessions
2nd for 1%
5th for intercept marks.

Clangers: Gardiner averages 2.0 clangers per game for 2022 and around 2.5 for about 4 years previously. Adams averages 2.6 for 2022 and 2.8 for 2021. Payne 1.4 clangers per game in 2022 and 1.5 in 2021.
FA Gardiner gives away per game 1.0 in 2022 and 1.1 in 2021. Adams 0.9 in both 2022 and 2021. Payne 0.2 in 2022 and 0.5 in 2021.
Goal Assist Gardiner 0 in 2022. 0.1 in 2021 and 2020. Adams goal assist 0.3 in 2022, 0.1 in 2021. Payne goal assist 0.2 in 2022 and 0.1 in 2021.
Rebound 50's Gardiner 2.5 in 2022, 1.9 in 2021 & 2020. Adams R50's 3.6 in 2022, 3.5 in 2021. Payne R50's 3.3 in 2022, 1.7 in 2021.
Tackles Gardiner 1.5 in 2022, 1.4 in 2020. Adams 1.3 in 2022. Payne 1.8 in 2022, 1.6 in 2021
Inside 50's Gardiner 0.7 in 2022. Adams 1.2 in 2022. Payne 1.1 in 2022.

Interesting stats, when you consider that the past three years Payne is dropped as soon as Gardiner and Adams are fit.

I am going to have a closer look at Devs and Priors stats also, because to me they are in a similar spot to Payne, having some upside but both consistently dropped.

I really like Payne. His performance in the 2020 prelim still stands out in my mind.

Hopefully 2023 is the year things click for him and he can cement a spot in the team.

 

[a mayes ing]

I really like Payne. His performance in the 2020 prelim still stands out in my mind.

Hopefully 2023 is the year things click for him and he can cement a spot in the team.

How does he cement a spot when he is automatically dropped as soon as Gardiner, Adams or Andrews is available?

 

[Sproj]

How does he cement a spot when he is automatically dropped as soon as Gardiner, Adams or Andrews is available?

I’m beginning to think some of us might have been looking at it wrong and it isn’t Gardiner at risk but actually Adams due to injury. The fact he hasn’t really been since he went down with concussion has massive red flags waving about whether he might even play in ‘23.

Also, you’d have to think that if Rich has another few games like the back end of this year, he might find himself out of the team.

 

[Section 5]

McCluggage has moved from a wing into playing more time in the midfield engine room the last 2 years
He will play well in either position but i think Fagan will leave him mostly in the engine room for 2023
I can actually see Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

getting a little less tagged in 2023. Hope so anyhow.

Rating our midfield excluding the ruck
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage
Bench: Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) then a Defender + a 5th I/C person

At present i have settled on Berry one wing and the hardest spot to fill is the other wing going to Dev Robertson

A lot will depend on Jarryd Lions fitness. If he is back to his best, he is in the side. If not, well he should miss out

Rayner and Bailey mostly forward with Rayner getting more center clearance midfield time

That is a strong midfield especially if Lyons and Zorko are back to near to their best
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage then Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) + wings Berry & Robertson + Rayner & Bailey

 

[briztoon]

McCluggage has moved from a wing into playing more time in the midfield engine room the last 2 years
He will play well in either position but i think Fagan will leave him mostly in the engine room for 2023
I can actually see Lachie Neale getting a little less tagged in 2023. Hope so anyhow.

Rating our midfield excluding the ruck
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage
Bench: Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) then a Defender + a 5th I/C person

At present i have settled on Berry one wing and the hardest spot to fill is the other wing going to Dev Robertson

A lot will depend on Jarryd Lions fitness. If he is back to his best, he is in the side. If not, well he should miss out

Rayner and Bailey mostly forward with Rayner getting more center clearance midfield time

That is a strong midfield especially if Lyons and Zorko are back to near to their best
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage then Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) + wings Berry & Robertson + Rayner & Bailey

If Bailey keeps up today’s standard of running, I reckon he’ll be spending more time through the midfield.

 

[Section 5]

If Bailey keeps up today’s standard of running, I reckon he’ll be spending more time through the midfield.

Could do, but i am not sure we want to lose his goal scoring skills
2018 6
2019 5
2020 13
2021 31
2022 37

 

[briztoon]

Could do, but i am not sure we want to lose his goal scoring skills
2018 6
2019 5
2020 13
2021 31
2022 37

I agree, but I believe Zorko will spend much more time forward this coming season.

 

[Section 5]

I agree, but I believe Zorko will spend much more time forward this coming season.

Yes, that could also happen
Hope he is over his little injury niggles from last year
He did have an off year in 2020 but bounced back in 2021
On the other hand, he is 34 in February so you may be correct

 

[Berrygood]

I’m beginning to think some of us might have been looking at it wrong and it isn’t Gardiner at risk but actually Adams due to injury. The fact he hasn’t really been since he went down with concussion has massive red flags waving about whether he might even play in ‘23.

Also, you’d have to think that if Rich has another few games like the back end of this year, he might find himself out of the team.

Completely agree with Adams. Will the head knocks see him hesitate in some situations? Symptoms can come n go. I think some caution will be taken surrounding Adams. We don't need to take risks with him. I also think Gardiner plays a different role to Adams n Payne. Darcy gets the mobile third tall, where as Adams or Payne, with Andrews they take the 1 n 2 fwds. Payne is getting more confident the more he plays. He should take a lot from his finals performances.

I can't see Rich having as bad a trot as he did last season. From the pictures and clips I've seen from training he looks much trimmer. I also think this will be his last season. Retirement beckons. He will give everything he has to go out on top. Same with Zorko, in the same boat as Rich. They may be managed at stages but both will give their all.

At this stage, I think Payne is in front of Adams. Should get the start. And I think Dev is infront of Lyons. Lyons will have to come back from his groin surgeries fitter than ever. And Wilmot early over McKenna.

 

[On the quiet]

McCluggage has moved from a wing into playing more time in the midfield engine room the last 2 years
He will play well in either position but i think Fagan will leave him mostly in the engine room for 2023
I can actually see Lachie Neale getting a little less tagged in 2023. Hope so anyhow.

Rating our midfield excluding the ruck
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage
Bench: Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) then a Defender + a 5th I/C person

At present i have settled on Berry one wing and the hardest spot to fill is the other wing going to Dev Robertson

A lot will depend on Jarryd Lions fitness. If he is back to his best, he is in the side. If not, well he should miss out

Rayner and Bailey mostly forward with Rayner getting more center clearance midfield time

That is a strong midfield especially if Lyons and Zorko are back to near to their best
(1) Neale, (2) Dunkley, (3) McCluggage then Zorko (F/M), Ashcroft (M/Wing), Lyons (M) + wings Berry & Robertson + Rayner & Bailey

Dev does possess some speed so providing he can build a little more endurance without compromising speed think he will go well on the wing and on the odd occasion if needed inside. As you state will depend on Lyons form, but a very strong group and Prior a little unlucky, thought he had a couple of really good games one from memory against the Hawkes in Tassie.
Maybe my lid is off but GF as a minimum this year.

 

[Dalions]

I’m beginning to think some of us might have been looking at it wrong and it isn’t Gardiner at risk but actually Adams due to injury. The fact he hasn’t really been since he went down with concussion has massive red flags waving about whether he might even play in ‘23.

Also, you’d have to think that if Rich has another few games like the back end of this year, he might find himself out of the team.

Dev does possess some speed so providing he can build a little more endurance without compromising speed think he will go well on the wing and on the odd occasion if needed inside. As you state will depend on Lyons form, but a very strong group and Prior a little unlucky, thought he had a couple of really good games one from memory against the Hawkes in Tassie.
Maybe my lid is off but GF as a minimum this year.

Dev was another one who was running really well at the end of the session.
In the 400’s he was sitting just after Bailey along with McKenna.
He has improved his endurance progressively since coming.
Looking at solidifying a spot this year.

 

[On the quiet]

I’m beginning to think some of us might have been looking at it wrong and it isn’t Gardiner at risk but actually Adams due to injury. The fact he hasn’t really been since he went down with concussion has massive red flags waving about whether he might even play in ‘23.

Also, you’d have to think that if Rich has another few games like the back end of this year, he might find himself out of the team.

Wonder if Adams is undertaking running with the main squad or on some type of modified program? First thought is, hope he is or has recovered. That is the most important thing his long term health, there is a lot of living after footy.

Can be a bit misleading the public release of Gardiners signing, but it was after Adams concussion, so perhaps the club was a little concerned with Adams moving forward.

 

[On the quiet]

Dev was another one who was running really well at the end of the session.
In the 400’s he was sitting just after Bailey along with McKenna.
He has improved his endurance progressively since coming.
Looking at solidifying a spot this year.

thats good to hear. i agree with a couple of other posters in that Lyons has to win back his spot so Dev in for me round 1.

 

[On the quiet]

Completely agree with Adams. Will the head knocks see him hesitate in some situations? Symptoms can come n go. I think some caution will be taken surrounding Adams. We don't need to take risks with him. I also think Gardiner plays a different role to Adams n Payne. Darcy gets the mobile third tall, where as Adams or Payne, with Andrews they take the 1 n 2 fwds. Payne is getting more confident the more he plays. He should take a lot from his finals performances.

I can't see Rich having as bad a trot as he did last season. From the pictures and clips I've seen from training he looks much trimmer. I also think this will be his last season. Retirement beckons. He will give everything he has to go out on top. Same with Zorko, in the same boat as Rich. They may be managed at stages but both will give their all.

At this stage, I think Payne is in front of Adams. Should get the start. And I think Dev is infront of Lyons. Lyons will have to come back from his groin surgeries fitter than ever. And Wilmot early over McKenna.

I actually think at this stage Payne with his height and reasonable speed and agility probably is more value playing on the third tall as he can play more upfield, with Adams taking the big lockdown forward. Club probably hoping Payne can cement that lockdown role going forward, especially as there are some very tall KPF.

As stated, the immediate concern is the health of Adams so possibly Payne ends up taking the big full forward a little earlier than expected in 2023. Agree 100% re McKenna and Lyons. Obviously if Lyons is back to his best he needs to come in. Fages does rate McKenna, but Wilmot showed a lot of promise.

 

[Sproj]

I actually do wonder (as I've said before) whether Wilmott might overtake / has overtaken Coleman. Don't get me wrong, Coleman has a massive future for the Lions on that halfback line BUT Rich has one more season and I am not sure you can carry two poor running halfbacks in the side. Coleman seemingly has fitness issues and the preseason seems to have shown that may not have improved much. I wonder if he plays a bit of second fiddle to Rich this year.

That said, Wilmott is a kid, so he will have ups and downs and likely be in and out of the side as will Rich be likely due to management being an older player now, so all three along with McKenna will continue to get a lot of games.

I think it will be the same with Zorko/Lyons/Robertson/Prior. The question for me really, is where does Lohmann fit?

 

[Jubair]

We don't need McKenna to be a superstar, we just need him to use his skill set the best way he can. That way, the team will have that slight percentage improvement as a result and if all the other players do that then as a team, we will make greater progress.

 

[Berrygood]

Dev does possess some speed so providing he can build a little more endurance without compromising speed think he will go well on the wing and on the odd occasion if needed inside. As you state will depend on Lyons form, but a very strong group and Prior a little unlucky, thought he had a couple of really good games one from memory against the Hawkes in Tassie.
Maybe my lid is off but GF as a minimum this year.

I thought we looked so much quicker to the ball and with the ball when Dev played at the end of last season. He was also able to play run with/tagging roles with success when asked. I've read in the training thread that Dev has comeback thicker thru the chest and is running really well. Bigger n fitter, hope he busts out this year.

I like Prior too. Got a bit of mongrel. I think he's made to fill Starcevich's role if he gets injured. Could also do some wing time. I think he can play on the 3rd tall as well if needed. Always a bench chance depending on defensive needs. A bit of a Mr Fixit as Lester has been. No less important to the squad. When both Dev and Prior play together, they feed off each other so much. Both go to another level. Two lads I'd be trying so hard to lock in long term.

 

[JasRulz63]

For me personally it’s the fact he hasn’t played for a couple seasons and also those Essendon teams weren’t exactly lighting it up. If he’s best 22 then great but I think what Wilmot did at the end of last season as the youngest guy in the league is getting a bit underrated. If Wilmot has developed from what we saw last season, as I’d expect he would then for me he’s got the starting spot to begin with.

While I agree it's going to be interesting to see how he goes after being out for a few years, in his last full season before he left (2019) Essendon made the finals finishing 8th, and he finished 4th in their B&F that season at age 22.

 

[Warwick]

Maybe not next year but is Wilmot any chance to move up to a wing?

 

[Nunez]

Maybe not next year but is Wilmot any chance to move up to a wing?

McKenna more likely to play wing IMO.

 

[JasRulz63]

Maybe not next year but is Wilmot any chance to move up to a wing?

I remember when we drafted him, Conole (I think) mentioned that while he played predominantly in defense, he had stints on the wing and half forward in his draft year.

 

[Nuggo]

Backup to Starce as a lockdown small back

That was my initial thought and didn't have him best 22. Starting to change my mind. The luxury of having depth!

 

[Sproj]

Hipwood has signed a contract extension until 2029!

 

[Mikevk123]

B B.Starcevich H.Andrews D.Rich
HB C.Mckeena M.Adams K.Coleman
C H.Mcluaggage J.Dunkley J.Berry
HF Z.Bailey J.Daniher C.Rayner
F C.Cameron E.Hipwood J.Gunston
FOLL- O.Mclernery D.Robertson L.Neale
I/C- D.Zorko, J.Payne, L.McCarthy, W.Ashcroft
Emerg- J.Lyons, D.Wilmot, D.Fort, D.Gardiner, C.Ah’Chee, J.Prior, N.Answerth