First 22 in 2023

[Pride of lions]

He needs to find more of the ball which is not easy in the set ups the Lions play. Hopefully with more running power in the firsts this year we play a more expansive game and that flows through to the reserves where Sharp can impress.

I think Tunstill has a greater upside than Sharp,he seems to have a better football brain and better skills as well. And with Ashcroft,Wilmott and Answerth also all probably ahead of him I can’t really see Sharp getting into the 22 this year. He would have to have a massive improvement in form to get a game in the seniors I think. Hopefully he can make it but it will be a very tough team to break into this year.

 

[Sproj]

Well with Adams out for the season basically, Payne gets his shot but man, our tall depth now is basically non-existent.

So, I'd say we are looking at:

B Starcevich, Payne, Gardner
HB Rich, Andrews, McKenna
C McCluggage, Dunkley, Berry
HF Bailey, Daniher, Gunston
F Cameron, Hipwood, McCarthy
FOLL Mclnerney, Robertson, Neale
I/C- Rayner, Zorko, Ashcroft, Wilmott/K.Coleman

 

[Royboy1961]

I think Tunstill has a greater upside than Sharp,he seems to have a better football brain and better skills as well. And with Ashcroft,Wilmott and Answerth also all probably ahead of him I can’t really see Sharp getting into the 22 this year. He would have to have a massive improvement in form to get a game in the seniors I think. Hopefully he can make it but it will be a very tough team to break into this year.

They are different players . Tunstill played as an inside midfielder for WA. Sharp was always an outside runner and was really picked up as a project midfielder due to his athletic ability. If Sharp improves his ball winning ability and starts impacting the scoreboard more often he has a future in the AFL.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

Well with Adams out for the season basically, Payne gets his shot but man, our tall depth now is basically non-existent.

So, I'd say we are looking at:

B Starcevich, Payne, Gardner
HB Rich, Andrews, McKenna
C McCluggage, Dunkley, Berry
HF Bailey, Daniher, Gunston
F Cameron, Hipwood, McCarthy
FOLL Mclnerney, Robertson, Neale
I/C- Rayner, Zorko, Ashcroft, Wilmott/K.Coleman

Well you’ve put Payne at FB which he isn’t, and Andrews at CHB which he isn’t. And I haven’t even looked at the rest of the line up.

 

[Section 5]

Well you’ve put Payne at FB which he isn’t, and Andrews at CHB which he isn’t. And I haven’t even looked at the rest of the line up.

Being a bit picky on the positioning of 2 players there Lets Roar like 44
Hope you don't take the teams listed by the Lions during the season as gospel.
Nothing wrong with the overall team named by Sproj

 

[Dalions]

Well you’ve put Payne at FB which he isn’t, and Andrews at CHB which he isn’t. And I haven’t even looked at the rest of the line up.

If you have a look on the AFL website you can find the team line ups for last years games and Daniel Rich was named at CHB in everyone of the first 10 games of the year.
Harris Andrews was named at FF in a few of them.
I didn’t even bother looking beyond that.

 

[briztoon]

I think Tunstill has a greater upside than Sharp,he seems to have a better football brain and better skills as well. And with Ashcroft,Wilmott and Answerth also all probably ahead of him I can’t really see Sharp getting into the 22 this year. He would have to have a massive improvement in form to get a game in the seniors I think. Hopefully he can make it but it will be a very tough team to break into this year.

Sharp was always going to be a project player.

He’s from an athletics background, and football was his second sport.

I hope he gets another year or two at least, as this is effectively his second year on the list.

But we’re also going to have a list squeeze for the next few years with the amount of talented youngsters already on the list, more talented academy kids and father sons coming through, along with having to fill specific list needs.

 

[martinson]

Sharp was always going to be a project player.

He’s from an athletics background, and football was his second sport.

I hope he gets another year or two at least, as this is effectively his second year on the list.

But we’re also going to have a list squeeze for the next few years with the amount of talented youngsters already on the list, more talented academy kids and father sons coming through, along with having to fill specific list needs.

Sharp has more potential than perhaps what he's shown to date imo and he just needs to get a bit stronger.

But the point you raise is on the money. We've probably got 10-12 guys on the list who are almost reasonable AFL players and good backups but it's conjectural whether they'll ever take the next step to be permanent selections and if the opportunity comes to replace them with someone with genuine talent we'll be taking it.

With the depth we have now the aim now will be to improve the list with higher quality talent in those second tier spots. And fill specific needs such as KPD depth.

 

[BangyBangy]

If Dunkley can play ruck at the Bulldogs then surely he can take Adams' place in the backline.

Maybe that's what we had in mind all along.

 

[Berrygood]

Well with Adams out for the season basically, Payne gets his shot but man, our tall depth now is basically non-existent.

So, I'd say we are looking at:

B Starcevich, Payne, Gardner
HB Rich, Andrews, McKenna
C McCluggage, Dunkley, Berry
HF Bailey, Daniher, Gunston
F Cameron, Hipwood, McCarthy
FOLL Mclnerney, Robertson, Neale
I/C- Rayner, Zorko, Ashcroft, Wilmott/K.Coleman

Our best 22/23 for sure I think. But I'm starting Coleman with Wilmot or McKenna on bench.

 

[Sproj]

Our best 22/23 for sure I think. But I'm starting Coleman with Wilmot or McKenna on bench.

Yeah I would probably do the same to be honest. Wilmott was extremely impressive when he came in and given Rich is getting on now, he will definitely get his chances when Rich is rested. I guess there will be a four way audition throughout the season for those two halfback spots between Rich, McKenna, Wilmott and Coleman, pretty good position to be in.

 

[3KZ is Football]

The biggest test for Fagan and the football department this season is going to be getting our defence right. Rich, Gardiner and Payne in the backline is a big worry in terms of a lack of leg speed and decision making under pressure. Rich in particular is a concern - All Australian in 2021 but there were some worrying signs in 2022. Nearly cost us the Elimination Final against Richmond when he ran too far in the dying minutes and his decision making looks shaky at times at the kick ins after a behind. Lack of chase, opponents running off him and a slight loss of penetration in kicking, (admittedly off an ELITE standard) are a worry.

We would all love to see Rich in great form, but Coleman looks to be a champion in the making in defence and McKenna was signed up for a reason. The end comes for all great players and if his form is indifferent early in the season, some big questions start to need to be asked.

EDIT: Thanks briztoon

 

[Mighty Lions]

The biggest test for Fagan and the football department this season is going to be getting our defence right. Rich, Gardiner and Payne in the backline is a big worry in terms of a lack of leg speed and decision making under pressure. Rich in particular is a concern - All Australian in 2021 but there were some worrying signs in 2022. Nearly cost us the Elimination Final against Richmond when he ran too far in the dying minutes and his decision making looks shaky at times at the kick ins after a behind. Lack of chase, opponents running off him and a slight loss of penetration in kicking, (admittedly off an ELITE standard) are a worry.

We would all love to see Rich in great form, but Coleman looks to be a champion in the making in defence and McKenna was drafted for a reason. The end comes for all great players and if his form is indifferent early in the season, some big questions start to need to be asked.

So far this season Rich (& Zorko) has had a perfect pre-season leading up to the season starter. Last year he didn't. Providing he starts the season fit & healthy (unlike last year) Rich will play a big part in us going all the way in season 2023. Right off Champions at your own peril.

 

[3KZ is Football]

So far this season Rich (& Zorko) has had a perfect pre-season leading up to the season starter. Last year he didn't. Providing he starts the season fit & healthy (unlike last year) Rich will play a big part in us going all the way in season 2023. Right off Champions at your own peril.

100% agree about champions and it applies in any sport. Just look at Andy Murray at the Australian Open this year.

It is great to hear that Rich is having a perfect pre-season. No player deserves to be part of a Premiership team more than he does and 2023 is his big chance. Leading into the 2023 season, I’ve got two glasses on the table with Rich. One is half full and the other is half empty. Let’s hope his glass runneth over this season.

 

[briztoon]

The biggest test for Fagan and the football department this season is going to be getting our defence right. Rich, Gardiner and Payne in the backline is a big worry in terms of a lack of leg speed and decision making under pressure. Rich in particular is a concern - All Australian in 2021 but there were some worrying signs in 2022. Nearly cost us the Elimination Final against Richmond when he ran too far in the dying minutes and his decision making looks shaky at times at the kick ins after a behind. Lack of chase, opponents running off him and a slight loss of penetration in kicking, (admittedly off an ELITE standard) are a worry.

We would all love to see Rich in great form, but Coleman looks to be a champion in the making in defence and McKenna was drafted for a reason. The end comes for all great players and if his form is indifferent early in the season, some big questions start to need to be asked.

Gardiner and Payne are not slow for their position. Payne probably is close to elite in terms of speed for his size, and the players he’ll be up against.

Harris Andrews on the other hand, is the slow key defender in our unit.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, has been our defensive structure, where our keys defenders play a zone and give their direct opponent to big a gap, and head start in creating separation on a lead.

Gardiner, and to a lesser extent Andrews, often give away a stupid, petulant foul after their opponent has marked the ball, or Gardiner is prone to going in to aggressive to a contest trying to recover, and gives away an unnecessary foul, which results in an opposition free kick on goal.


As for Rich’s decision making, I believe a lot of it comes down to the coaching instructions to slow the game down and play the percentages.

He rarely takes the game on by foot anymore, and yes much of that may be because he doesn’t have the run in his legs, to run and kick like we’ve seen from Coleman.

As for Coleman, yes he takes the game on, and can open up defences, but he gets caught out of defensive position a lot, and part of the reason we get opened up a lot on the rebound by oppositions, is because our whole defensive unit play very high up the ground, allowing opponents to get behind us on the run.

I’d say it’s as much our coaching and game plan, as it is personnel, that is responsible for our losses.


Oh, and it’s a minor detail, but McKenna wasn’t drafted. He was signed as an SSP free agent.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Good post briztoon. Payne’s reaction time is part of the issue - I have visions of Riewoldt beating him on two largely identical leads, with Payne trailing him badly both occasions and Richmond scoring two goals in a clutch last quarter of our Elimination Final. For a big bloke, he doesn’t maintain much body contact on opponents / play them close enough, which means forwards lead off him with ease or find space around him. Maybe he isn’t slow, he just finds himself late to contests.

 

[On the quiet]

Good post briztoon. Payne’s reaction time is part of the issue - I have visions of Riewoldt beating him on two largely identical leads, with Payne trailing him badly both occasions and Richmond scoring two goals in a clutch last quarter of our Elimination Final. For a big bloke, he doesn’t maintain much body contact on opponents / play them close enough, which means forwards lead off him with ease or find space around him. Maybe he isn’t slow, he just finds himself late to contests.

geez instead of supporting Payne you are into him before the season even starts, no doubt you will be posting the usually negative post about him as soon as he has an ordinary game, and pushing for Lester. By the way in the game you refer to Payne was competing hard with Riewoldt and forced him to take two of the marks on a tight angle 50m out, Riewoldt just kicked two very good goals. The first one, yes Payne was standing a bit away but there was a fast turnover in the center square.

Just a reminder Riewoldt kicked 6 goals on Lester at the Goldie a couple of years ago and Adams has had trouble with him on a number of occasions.
Watch the first half of the Prelim against the cats

 

[Nathan Barley]

Good post briztoon. Payne’s reaction time is part of the issue - I have visions of Riewoldt beating him on two largely identical leads, with Payne trailing him badly both occasions and Richmond scoring two goals in a clutch last quarter of our Elimination Final. For a big bloke, he doesn’t maintain much body contact on opponents / play them close enough, which means forwards lead off him with ease or find space around him. Maybe he isn’t slow, he just finds himself late to contests.

Well we’ve found McStays replacement. Looking forward to videos of your kid showing him now to play

 

[Dalions]

Good post briztoon. Payne’s reaction time is part of the issue - I have visions of Riewoldt beating him on two largely identical leads, with Payne trailing him badly both occasions and Richmond scoring two goals in a clutch last quarter of our Elimination Final. For a big bloke, he doesn’t maintain much body contact on opponents / play them close enough, which means forwards lead off him with ease or find space around him. Maybe he isn’t slow, he just finds himself late to contests.

The 2 goals of Riewoldt in the Elimination Final last year were due to a complete lack of pressure further up the field.
Not much Payne can do when the ball is moving up the field with uncontested mark after uncontested mark. Especially against a Wiley old cat like Riewoldt.
Hopefully something that will be a bit better this year.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Well we’ve found McStays replacement. Looking forward to videos of your kid showing him now to play

I’ll get him to send you one on how to spell first.

 

[3KZ is Football]

geez instead of supporting Payne you are into him before the season even starts, no doubt you will be posting the usually negative post about him as soon as he has an ordinary game, and pushing for Lester. By the way in the game you refer to Payne was competing hard with Riewoldt and forced him to take two of the marks on a tight angle 50m out, Riewoldt just kicked two very good goals. The first one, yes Payne was standing a bit away but there was a fast turnover in the center square.

Just a reminder Riewoldt kicked 6 goals on Lester at the Goldie a couple of years ago and Adams has had trouble with him on a number of occasions.
Watch the first half of the Prelim against the cats

Nah, I’m not “into him” as you put it. I actually really like him and as you say, he did some brave things in the first half of the Geelong PF. We are discussing players here and I am merely expressing some reservations and discussing where he might improve. It’s what happens in threads, especially those where people are essentially ranking players and evaluating their selection credentials. For what it’s worth, I think he is clearly in our best 22. There is no animus involved.

 

[Section 5]

Most people agree the Lions defense needs to improve to take the next step or just hold our position for that matter.
As others have mentioned more pressure on the ball carrier up field needs to improve and is very much tied to our defense issues.
Dunkley should help in one area.
I am sure the coaches will make subtle changes to team defense in the offseason.

Adams won't play and Payne most likely takes that spot. So how did Payne go in a win/loss record in his 12 games of 2022.
Only one H & A double up team being the Demons. Ended up being 3 times due to finals.
7 Wins: (round 8) Eagles, (9) Crows, (16) Dogs, (18) Giants, (22) Saints, (EF) Tigers, (SF) Demons. Thats 3 top 8 team wins
5 Loss: (10) Hawks, (15) Demons, (17) Bombers, (23) Demons, (PF) Cats. Thats 2 top 8 team losses.
I think Payne who is only 23 years old will hold his own and should be a reliable replacement for Adams.

Baring injuries Andrews, Starcevich & Rich could all be in AA contention.
Gardiner, Coleman, McKenna, Wilmot, Answerth, Madden, Cockatoo, Michael, Lester and possibly Ah Chee is a solid group.
Then we have Joyce trialing with the club as a KPD. We do lack a depth KPD.
This week i watched Joyce play against the Lions in a VFL game.
If i was not watching his game closely i would not have noticed him on the field except for his 4-kick in's.
The club obviously see something in Joyce so let's see what unfolds.

 

[briztoon]

Good post briztoon. Payne’s reaction time is part of the issue - I have visions of Riewoldt beating him on two largely identical leads, with Payne trailing him badly both occasions and Richmond scoring two goals in a clutch last quarter of our Elimination Final. For a big bloke, he doesn’t maintain much body contact on opponents / play them close enough, which means forwards lead off him with ease or find space around him. Maybe he isn’t slow, he just finds himself late to contests.

In my opinion, Andrews is a lot worse for giving his man too much space, and losing contact, and giving up a shot on goal.

 

[Saucery]

BRISBANE LIONS

Lions football boss Danny Daly recently suggested there wouldn’t be too many positional shifts and role changes this year. Although it will be interesting to see where Conor McKenna plays should he get an early gig. Brisbane already has two well-established rebounding defenders in Keidean Coleman and Daniel Rich, so McKenna might have to play further up the field if he earns a spot in Brisbane’s senior team.

Tricky ruck balances; 20yo Pie’s upgrade as Eagles ponder switch: New player roles at every club

Tricky ruck balances; 20yo Pie’s upgrade as Eagles ponder switch: New player roles at every club

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[3KZ is Football]

In my opinion, Andrews is a lot worse for giving his man too much space, and losing contact, and giving up a shot on goal.

The thing with Andrews, which I picked up through video analysis last season, was that he was getting negated by smart opposition tactics. In previous seasons he would play wide of his direct opponent and either make up ground late to spoil or drift across for intercept marks. Playing like that, he was an All Australian in 2019 and 2020. What opposition coaches then did to negate him was to designate forwards whose job was to get between him and the drop of the ball when the opposition sent the ball to a key forward contest. Forwards effectively filled the space between Andrews and his opponent and killed his run to the ultimate context. This is why last season in particular, on a number of glaring occasions, Andrews was three or four back and his opponents were marking without Andrew being able to spoil or make the contest. Andrews was effectively tagged out of contests, it was working and it caught on. No wonder he looked frustrated in so many games last season. For Andrews, the solution is to give his opponent much less width and to play a more negative, body contact style of defence. I would be surprised if we didn’t see that this year.