First 22 in 2023

[Section 5]

For me and some others, Lyons was the player that got games when it was fairly obvious, he was struggling
However, because he is a good player, he could still find the footy averaging 19.6 disposals in his last 8 games. Defensively he was shot though
One wing spot has been our weakness for the last 2 years with Robbo below average in 2021 and another drop off in 2022 then delisted
Robbo still played 15 games though including an EF
Fagan in hindsight should have got more games into Dev who did not play in rounds 16 to 23. Dev only played 8 games in total including the 3 finals
He really should have played in rounds 16-23 instead of Lyons and or Robbo

Total Lions Players Used 37

17 played 20 + Games

5 played 17-19 games

4 played 10-16 games

11 played 1-9 games

Below a reminder of games played by players in 2022. Fort got 18 games including a SF, and Payne 12 including the 3 finals
The list (from footywire) is a minimum of 5 games played and is in average disposal order, so a few players are missing being

Darcy Wilmot 3 games average disposals 12.7 all finals
James Tunstill 3 games average disposals 10.3
Ryan Lester 3 (1 unused sub) average disposals 8.3 (really 12.5 but they include the unused sub as a game played)
Tom Berry 3 (1 unused sub) average disposals 6.0 (really 9)
James Madden 2 games (1 activated sub) average disposals 7.0
Kai Lohman 2 games (1 subbed off) average disposals 6.5
Carter Michael 1 game average disposals 8.0

2022 Brisbane Disposals Per Game Leaders (Minimum 5 Games Played)​ Brisbane Lions​ Rank Name Games Average 1​ Lachie Neale​ 25​ 29.96​ 2​ Hugh McCluggage​ 24​ 24.67​ 3​ Daniel Rich​ 22​ 23.09​ 4​ Jarryd Lyons​ 22​ 22.09​ 5​ Dayne Zorko​ 22​ 19.86​ 6​ Keidean Coleman​ 18​ 18.11​ 7​ Jarrod Berry​ 23​ 17.91​ 8​ Zac Bailey​ 24​ 17.17​ 9​ Brandon Starcevich​ 24​ 14.96​ 10​ Cameron Rayner​ 24​ 14.71​ 11​ Rhys Mathieson​ 10​ 14.70​ 12​ Noah Answerth​ 23​ 14.04​ 13​ Marcus Adams​ 18​ 12.94​ 14​ Harris Andrews​ 24​ 12.54​ 15​ Mitch Robinson​ 15​ 12.53​ 16​ Darcy Gardiner​ 21​ 12.43​ 17​ Lincoln McCarthy​ 25​ 12.36​ 18​ Daniel McStay​ 22​ 12.00​ 19​ Deven Robertson​ 8​ 11.88​ 20​ Oscar McInerney​ 22​ 11.82​ 21​ Callum Ah Chee​ 21​ 11.62​ 22​ Jaxon Prior​ 12​ 11.50​ 23​ Charlie Cameron​ 25​ 11.40​ 24​ Jack Payne​ 12​ 11.00​ 25​ Joe Daniher​ 19​ 10.95​ 26​ Eric Hipwood​ 17​ 10.24​ 27​ Darcy Fort​ 18​ 9.78​ 28​ Nakia Cockatoo​ 8​ 9.50​ 29​ Tom Fullarton​ 5​ 7.60​ 30​ Harry Sharp​ 5​ 5.00​

 

[Dalions]

I have to agree with what you have stated. My son recently at the Melbourne Races spoke to a Brisbane Lions Player who was not happy with some coaches including the Coach. He told my son if you are not in favour with Fagan it does not matter how well you are playing you do not get a go. Other comments were made.

One example throughout the 2022 season in regards to good form was: Matho. It was mainly due to pressure, gained a spot and went well.

Selection policy hopefully changes for the better.

The only players I see who may have been a bit put out by the selection policy last year would be most notably in my mind Matho and Dev, second up probably Payne and Prior and thirdly and more than likely the most frustrating (for him) Robbo.
And let’s face it, Robbo was done, Matho is not the answer, Dev was battling a few injuries early in the year and in my eyes was probably the most unlucky with Lyons noticeably struggling, both Payne and Prior were playing games and at times were unlucky to miss out but we are a top 4 team who is pushing for a Premiership so games will not be given cheaply.

The only others a little unlucky at times were Lohmann and Wilmot. Both were given games and have time to cement their spots.

Out of all of the names I have listed, the 2 that I think most put out and in their own minds could have been a bit pissed off would have been Robbo number 1 due to him knowing it was his last year and Matho who was playing really well in the 2’s. Put his name up for trade at the end of the year and had little to no interest.

All of the above players are only fringe players who would likely be in a similar situation at most other clubs, particularly clubs pushing for a Premiership.

 

[Mighty Lions]

The only players I see who may have been a bit put out by the selection policy last year would be most notably in my mind Matho and Dev, second up probably Payne and Prior and thirdly and more than likely the most frustrating (for him) Robbo.
And let’s face it, Robbo was done, Matho is not the answer, Dev was battling a few injuries early in the year and in my eyes was probably the most unlucky with Lyons noticeably struggling, both Payne and Prior were playing games and at times were unlucky to miss out but we are a top 4 team who is pushing for a Premiership so games will not be given cheaply.

The only others a little unlucky at times were Lohmann and Wilmot. Both were given games and have time to cement their spots.

Out of all of the names I have listed, the 2 that I think most put out and in their own minds could have been a bit pissed off would have been Robbo number 1 due to him knowing it was his last year and Matho who was playing really well in the 2’s. Put his name up for trade at the end of the year and had no little to no interest.

All of the above players are only fringe players who would likely be in a similar situation at most other clubs, particularly clubs pushing for a Premiership.

In my opinion the club did everything they could in promoting Matho to another club where his opportunities to play senior footy might be better than at Brisbane. For the second time now he has looked at moving on without any interest so that should really endorse where his footy is now rather than some saying he is unlucky and stiff not to play more senior footy.

 

[Nunez]

In my opinion the club did everything they could in promoting Matho to another club where his opportunities to play senior footy might be better than at Brisbane. For the second time now he has looked at moving on without any interest so that should really endorse where his footy is now rather than some saying he is unlucky and stiff not to play more senior footy.

I think it's easier to say they're not given a fair run than acknowledge that their favourite VFL player isn't best 22. With that said, Matho is fantastic depth.

 

[Dalions]

I think it's easier to say they're not given a fair run than acknowledge that their favourite VFL player isn't best 22. With that said, Matho is fantastic depth.

All of them are great depth, which is essentially what makes us a good football team.

 

[briztoon]

We are clearly in our flag window. My only real issues are;

If we keep playing a player who is clearly struggling with injury, when we clearly have adequate replacements in the reserves.

And, if we are going to make a personal or positional change, give the new player coming in, adequate time to bed down in the position, don't keep chopping and changing, looking for a solution that doesn't exist amongst our reserves.


My biggest concern is losing a significant amount of depth over the next few seasons. Hopefully between future father sons and our academy, we can keep topping up our list with quality talent, that we might otherwise not have had access to through the draft.

 

[martinson]

We are clearly in our flag window. My only real issues are;

If we keep playing a player who is clearly struggling with injury, when we clearly have adequate replacements in the reserves.

And, if we are going to make a personal or positional change, give the new player coming in, adequate time to bed down in the position, don't keep chopping and changing, looking for a solution that doesn't exist amongst our reserves.


My biggest concern is losing a significant amount of depth over the next few seasons. Hopefully between future father sons and our academy, we can keep topping up our list with quality talent, that we might otherwise not have had access to through the draft.

We're sort of almost good enough to win a flag if some of our A graders can lift to an A+ level and we have a good run with injuries. If Adams doesn't come up we're short of a KPD because it'd be really hoping to think Andrews and Payne will get through the year unscathed and Darce is a back up at best ,and injury prone.

Our depth otherwise looks very strong on paper for this year at least .

 

[On the quiet]

It was a mixed bag in the end though. For example I was strongly against playing Hipwood too early and wanting to get Fort in there. Hipwood came good in finals which vindicated Fagan's belief around keeping him in best 22. On the flip side they kept playing Lyons while knowing he had OP and not going so well overall. Now apparently Lyons family isn't happy with how he got handled and kept getting played etc. Well there was nothing stopping Lyons from dropping himself if not fit, go figure.

Fagan could start with a clean slate for 2023 and say if you don't perform for 2+ games you won't be getting another look in without a stint in 2s. That kind of baselining might help with building more belief amongst fringe players. Might improve out depth as well.

first four or five rounds are challenging and then after that we have an easier (at least on paper) run of games. Easier to look decent against weaker opposition then against the stronger teams. I think with the 2's supposedly playing the same game style, that there should be an opportunity for some of the fringe/young players to get some exposure mid-season.

Happy 2023 to all, and my lid is off for 2023 as I expect the Lions to make the GF with our fixture and the list.

 

[On the quiet]

Would that be for the established players? I remember the concept of the newer ones being told they have four or five games to show their stuff so they aren't so focussed on not-making-mistakes-and-being-dropped and can focus on getting used to the game being mentioned as a positive for development a few times...

Ideally that's what should happen, but not sure it has over the past few years, but is difficult to accommodate four or five games with such a strong list.

 

[McIvor]

I have to agree with what you have stated. My son recently at the Melbourne Races spoke to a Brisbane Lions Player who was not happy with some coaches including the Coach. He told my son if you are not in favour with Fagan it does not matter how well you are playing you do not get a go. Other comments were made.

One example throughout the 2022 season in regards to good form was: Matho. It was mainly due to pressure, gained a spot and went well.

Selection policy hopefully changes for the better.

Concerning that a player would be so open and public with such critisicm although I couldn't agree more with the player you spoke to's sentiments.

 

[lionshine]

I doubt he is in our best 23 but my smoky on our list to play some senior footy this season is DJ White Jr. He is incredibly athletic and talented and at age 25 he can’t afford to have 3-4 years development so the club obviously believe he has the ability to make an impact within a year or two. With a full pre season leading up to the reserves matches I think he could push for senior selection around mid year and would add a fair bit of flair and X factor to our forward line if Zorko or McCarthy drop out due to injury at some stage.

 

[Section 5]

I doubt he is in our best 23 but my smoky on our list to play some senior footy this season is DJ White Jr. He is incredibly athletic and talented and at age 25 he can’t afford to have 3-4 years development so the club obviously believe he has the ability to make an impact within a year or two. With a full pre season leading up to the reserves matches I think he could push for senior selection around mid year and would add a fair bit of flair and X factor to our forward line if Zorko or McCarthy drop out due to injury at some stage.

He is a Cat B rookie, so my understanding is he won't get a run unless a long-term injury occurs

 

[Section 5]

We're sort of almost good enough to win a flag if some of our A graders can lift to an A+ level and we have a good run with injuries. If Adams doesn't come up we're short of a KPD because it'd be really hoping to think Andrews and Payne will get through the year unscathed and Darce is a back up at best ,and injury prone.

Our depth otherwise looks very strong on paper for this year at least .

Agree about the KPD
With a question mark still over Adams we are short on KPD depth should an injury or two strike
Lester would make his opponent accountable but that is about it. Can't expect him to take the 2nd tall or even 3rd tall at this stage of his career.
I don't think we have much choice but to place Fullarton down back permanently in the VFL should Adams not be ready by round 1
Even if Adams is ready, it still may be a good move for the year.

 

[lionshine]

He is a Cat B rookie, so my understanding is he won't get a run unless a long-term injury occurs

I don’t believe that is a rule anymore?

 

[Viceregal]

I don’t believe that is a rule anymore?

nods - pretty sure they did change it so Cat B's could play if they were considered squad worthy.

 

[Section 5]

He is a Cat B rookie, so my understanding is he won't get a run unless a long-term injury occurs

I don’t believe that is a rule anymore?

nods - pretty sure they did change it so Cat B's could play if they were considered squad worthy.

The rules were changes in 2020 for the 2021 season. Covid related together with AFL & Club financial reasons
See below article dated Nov 2020 where they mention Cat B rookies can play
I could be wrong but was under the impression that they have reverted back to normal list sizes with Cat A able to play but not Cat B
However, i am not able to find anything in the rules or bargaining agreement that mentions this.
That does not surprise me as the AFL recourses section is okay but mainly for reference and not necessarily up to date
For arguments sake the "AFL Laws Of The Game" being an important document is for year 2021. You need to go to umpires' site to get year 2022
................................................
Below from article
"Maximum list sizes have dropped from 47 to 44 next season, inclusive of two Category B rookies who are now eligible to play as part of the revised Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Previously, Category B rookies needed to be upgraded in order to be selected to play AFL."

New rule tweak provides relief for clubs on list flexibility

AFL clubs will now be allowed to move two players straight from the senior list to the rookie list, without going through a drafting process

www.afl.com.au

................
Below link to AFL "Policies & Terms" for those interested
There are 49 in total

AFL Policies & Terms

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

 

[Berrygood]

B Rich Andrews Starcevich
HB Mckeena Adams K.Coleman
C Mcluaggage Dunkley Berry
HF Bailey Daniher Gunston
F Cameron Hipwood McCarthy
FOLL Mclernery Robertson Neale
I/C- Rayner, Zorko, Ashcroft, Payne
Emerg- Lyons, Wilmot, Gardiner, Ah’Chee, Fort

It's a ripper of a squad, best 27 for sure. I think we could add Prior to that list. 28 players that I'm more than happy to see filling our best 22/23 all season.

Some very competent youngsters pushing to be next up. Tunstill, Lohman, Fletcher, Michael. And some handy mature depth, Matho, Cockatoo, Lester, Fullerton, Madden, that can fill a role for a game or 2.

If we see some big steps taken by H Smith n Lois Lane, to where they are pushing for a debut, our list is perfectly primed for a flag. I haven't looked fwd to a season as much in a long time.

 

[Dalions]

It's a ripper of a squad, best 27 for sure. I think we could add Prior to that list. 28 players that I'm more than happy to see filling our best 22/23 all season.

Some very competent youngsters pushing to be next up. Tunstill, Lohman, Fletcher, Michael. And some handy mature depth, Matho, Cockatoo, Lester, Fullerton, Madden, that can fill a role for a game or 2.

If we see some big steps taken by H Smith n Lois Lane, to where they are pushing for a debut, our list is perfectly primed for a flag. I haven't looked fwd to a season as much in a long time.

Speaking of Henry Smith, he had his shirt off for a brief period at training just before Christmas and he looks in ripping Nik.
Still skinny and not an ounce of fat on him but looks much better prepared than this time last year.

 

[McIvor]

The rules were changes in 2020 for the 2021 season. Covid related together with AFL & Club financial reasons
See below article dated Nov 2020 where they mention Cat B rookies can play
I could be wrong but was under the impression that they have reverted back to normal list sizes with Cat A able to play but not Cat B
However, i am not able to find anything in the rules or bargaining agreement that mentions this.
That does not surprise me as the AFL recourses section is okay but mainly for reference and not necessarily up to date
For arguments sake the "AFL Laws Of The Game" being an important document is for year 2021. You need to go to umpires' site to get year 2022
................................................
Below from article
"Maximum list sizes have dropped from 47 to 44 next season, inclusive of two Category B rookies who are now eligible to play as part of the revised Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Previously, Category B rookies needed to be upgraded in order to be selected to play AFL."

New rule tweak provides relief for clubs on list flexibility

AFL clubs will now be allowed to move two players straight from the senior list to the rookie list, without going through a drafting process

www.afl.com.au

................
Below link to AFL "Policies & Terms" for those interested
There are 49 in total

AFL Policies & Terms

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

I don't see the point of rookie lists. Just have squads of x amount and sign the international players to the reserves teams and then perhaps give clubs the ability to promote a reserves player when there is a long term injury or something. Surely there is an easier way.

 

[Section 5]

I don't see the point of rookie lists. Just have squads of x amount and sign the international players to the reserves teams and then perhaps give clubs the ability to promote a reserves player when there is a long term injury or something. Surely there is an easier way.

It is another avenue for players to make it at AFL level after missing out on the draft
I don't see the Rookie selection process changing much in the future. They will make some changes depending on circumstances at the time
Lucky for us Charlie Cameron was picked up in 2013 rookie draft at pick 7. A few other X-Lions in the list below

Most successful rookies[edit]​

Some of the most successful players originally drafted into the AFL via the rookie system[8][9][10] are:

• Michael Barlow
• Nathan Bassett
• Jarryd Blair
• Mark Blicavs
• Nathan Bock
• Matthew Boyd
• Luke Breust
• Dean Brogan
• Greg Broughton
• Shannon Byrnes
• Charlie Cameron
• Levi Casboult
• Andrew Carrazzo
• Robert Copeland
• Dean Cox
• Stewart Crameri
• Ed Curnow
• Aaron Davey
• Matt de Boer
• Michael Doughty
• Paul Duffield
• Aaron Edwards
• Michael Firrito
• Chad Fletcher
• Nathan Foley
• Josh Gibson
• Antoni Grover
• Heath Grundy
• Jarrod Harbrow
• Pearce Hanley
• Leigh Harding
• Roger Hayden
• Kieren Jack
• Sam Jacobs
• Mark Jamar
• Mark Johnson
• Darren Jolly
• Brett Jones
• Tadhg Kennelly
• Brett Kirk
• Rory Laird
• Tarkyn Lockyer
• Nathan Lovett-Murray
• Heritier Lumumba
• Quinten Lynch
• Martin Mattner
• Nick Maxwell
• James McDonald
• Jeremy McGovern
• Ben McGlynn
• Mal Michael
• Stephen Milne
• Dale Morris
• Shane Mumford
• Mark Nicoski
• Michael Osborne
• Joel Patfull
• Danyle Pearce
• Damien Peverill
• Liam Picken
• James Podsiadly
• Jason Porplyzia
• Matt Priddis
• Dean Rioli
• Russell Robertson
• Max Rooke
• Ben Rutten
• Aaron Sandilands
• Brad Sewell
• Cheynee Stiller
• Bret Thornton
• Greg Tivendale
• Shane Tuck
• Clinton Young

 

[McIvor]

It is another avenue for players to make it at AFL level after missing out on the draft
I don't see the Rookie selection process changing much in the future. They will make some changes depending on circumstances at the time
Lucky for us Charlie Cameron was picked up in 2013 rookie draft at pick 7. A few other X-Lions in the list below

I am aware of how many successful rookies there are and have been - my point is that just make list sizes 44 - surely those same players that were rookies and the 42nd, 43rd etc players would still be that on a normal list.

 

[Section 5]

I am aware of how many successful rookies there are and have been - my point is that just make list sizes 44 - surely those same players that were rookies and the 42nd, 43rd etc players would still be that on a normal list.

Not necessarily
How would a lot of players get onto an AFL list if they are bypassed in the draft
The AFL have made it a little easier now for players to get a second chance.
Acadamy's, Zone selections, NGA's, Irish Players are separate to international. Then you have all the lower leagues around the country
If you did not have a pathway, you would not have recruiters looking at certain players in those areas

You could call it something else, but it would still be separate to the draft

Some clubs have used recent rule changes to put senior players on the Rookie list as $80,000 of salary for each player is excluded from the salary cap
Lots of feedback from Cornes and others on how that is not how it should be used
Again, it's a club decision. Do you want a few more old heads around or do you want to look at some younger players

Maybe Cornes and others are right, but that's each Clubs decision within the current rules. Those rules may get changed in the future

Clubs may decide to keep certain senior players for leadership or depth over getting a younger player

Would the Lions be better off if we kept 2 of Cox, McFadyen, Robbo, Eli Smith instead of trying out Shadeau Brain and D White Jn.?
Another club may decide to keep say Robbo and McFadyen. No right or wrong way just a decision by each club

 

[dlanod]

I am aware of how many successful rookies there are and have been - my point is that just make list sizes 44 - surely those same players that were rookies and the 42nd, 43rd etc players would still be that on a normal list.

I'll put Cat B rookies to the side because they're really their own beast.

There are two main benefits to Cat A rookies - you only need to give them a one year contract when drafting them, and their base pay is outside the salary cap. The second part doesn't matter a heap (the AFL could just bump up the cap) but the first part means the clubs can gamble on these players - that's why they're taken at the end of the draft. If he's got an attitude, or skills don't translate well to the AFL, or etc etc etc you can cut bait after a year, whereas other draftees you're stuck with at least two years and often three given most clubs (especially the interstate ones) put a one year contract extension in front of all players and two in front of early draftees.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Tom Fullarton will turn into a proper gun at CHB. Wait for it!

 

[mpal6]

Tom Fullarton will turn into a proper gun at CHB. Wait for it!

Please please let's make this happen this off-season.