Frees for and frees against

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

I'd like to see a break down of what free kicks are paid and how they affect the play.

Would 3 or 4 free kicks when you're already moving the ball to your advantage so the ump calls "play on" be more beneficial than a team getting 1 free kick from a 50-50 contest, 10 metres out from goal?

It's easy to say a team gets a "dream run" without examining the context of each free kick, is it not?

 

[estibador]

You can't intentionally block any player around the stoppages, regardless if they are ruckman or not.

You can't hold them or make it too obvious, but you can put your body between them and the ball.

Defenders are always instructed to stay between their man and the goals at stoppages to stop them having a free run at goal, taggers are always putting their bodies in front of star midfielders, etc, etc.

Stephen Hill should be getting 30 free kicks a game if you're supposed to allow your opponent a free run at the ball.

 

[Blue and Gold Blood]

no surprise the usual dockers flogs are plentiful in this thread.

Perhaps we are just the most disciplined team in the league. Ever thought of that?

 

[gregboy55]

Its almost like people have an issue with us not giving free kicks away .

Thing is when we were up 17-1 or something against melbourne people were going crazy, yet if it were 17 - 15 no one would say a word...

So the fact that we are a well drilled and disciplined side that is first to the ball seems to earn us hate.

BUT... if we have found a way to exploit the rules then its absolutely not going to be us thats gonna stop for moral reasons. its up to the opposition coaches to figure it out or for the umps to learn not to fall for it.

Raising your arms is pretty much exactly the same as flooding was, ethically annoying but a tactic.

 

[gregboy55]

no surprise the usual dockers flogs are plentiful in this thread.

Perhaps we are just the most disciplined team in the league. Ever thought of that?

This, we went from the worst kicking side in the league, to the best in under 2 years.. why could we not have improved in other areas of the game, such as tackling and discipline.

 

[falcons2]

I noticed on Saturday night the umpires were loudly booed as they left the ground and 'finally we got a free' cheers rang out on the awarding of almost every Westcoast free. Kinda weird!

I believe there are three types of freekicks. I rank them by points
1 point for when you have possession and you get the free - these really aren't noticed only on stat sheets.
2 points for 50/50's. These can hurt but are often obvious
3 points for when the opposition has possession and you get it. Whack! the equivalent of a 100m penalty.
Tally frees this way and then look for variations.

 

[gregboy55]

I noticed on Saturday night the umpires were loudly booed as they left the ground and 'finally we got a free' cheers rang out on the awarding of almost every Westcoast free. Kinda weird!

I believe there are three types of freekicks. I rank them by points
1 point for when you have possession and you get the free - these really aren't noticed only on stat sheets.
2 points for 50/50's. These can hurt but are often obvious
3 points for when the opposition has possession and you get it. Whack! the equivalent of a 100m penalty.
Tally frees this way and then look for variations.

The ones where there's clear advantage and there doesn't need to be a whistle at all should be 0, cos they mean nothing

 

[falcons2]

The ones where there's clear advantage and there doesn't need to be a whistle at all should be 0, cos they mean nothing

True but these aren't always situations of continuous play.

Westcoast fans should recognise that more than others

 

[The Magenius]

Wow there is some idiots on here but is thread takes the cake, a free kick conspiracy instigated by the AFL, where all the umpires deliberately give west coast more frees.

It's dumb threads like this that make good posters leave as they are clearly wasting their time on here with some complete morons.

There are plenty of reasons why west coast lead the free count but not sure I should bother as anyone who knows a bit about football knows why certain teams get more frees than others and it's nothing to do with conspiracy theories from biased umpires that some freo moron wants " the afl to look into"

1. Teams that get to the football first win more free kicks, west coast are one of the best teams at getting first to the ball
2. West coast have played some very undisciplined teams this year, unsurprisingly they have given away a lot of free kicks
3. West coast have the best ruck duo in the comp, many teams have to cheat to compete and thus with the amount of stoppages now west coast wins a lot of frees in the stoppages
4 west coast have more talls than any other side in the comp, most other sides can't compete and smaller defenders are forced to compete and give away a ton of frees chopping and pushing much taller players
5 west coast are an extremely disciplined side with very high standards, they simply do not accept giving away the silly free kicks that sides like GWS, Melbourne etc do
6. West coast has played some of the worst sides in the comp this year, anyone that knows footy knows when good team play crappy teams the crap teams tend to give away more frees! Becuase they can't compete on a skill level so try e erythema they can to stop the opposition
7. West coast has played 3 of the most inexperienced sides in the comp, inexperienced sides giveaway more frees that more experienced sides.

 

[Hump 17]

Historically he has an absurdly high free kick differential in his favour. Other key forwards could only dream of the free kicks he's gotten.

Myth. Do you honestly believe this or like a few other sheep that have watched Riewoldt destroy there team?

 

[sainter35]

I remember Naitanui getting a ruck infringement free kick in a derby last year because Barlow got in the way of him being third man up. Given Cox and Griffin were the two actually contesting the ruck, I'm not sure why such an infringement is paid, given that such a tactic is basically nullifying Griffin from the contest.

My theory is that a lot of Eagles players have reputations that precede them. So Naitanui gets frees that other young rucks wouldn't. Same as Riewoldt getting free kicks Buddy could only dream of. Umpires have pets.

Gotta love the Freo gals whingeing bout the Eagles frees,....clearly didnt see the absolute arm chair ride umps gave them Friday?

FFS EVERY time the whistle went when we had them on the ropes....along came a BS Freo free kick......seriously started wondering if umps were having a nibble at Sportsbet after that game..

 

[estibador]

Myth. Do you honestly believe this or like a few other sheep that have watched Riewoldt destroy there team?

Riewoldt free kick differential:

FF = 290
FA = 104
Diff = +186

Hardly a myth, that's an absurdly high differential in anyone's language.

For comparison:

Brown: 247/242 = +5
J. Reiwoldt: 73/71 = +2
Pav: 248/254 = -6
Buddy: 162/314 = -152

 

[John Dorian]

Does anyone actually think, just maybe, that when a free kick count goes the way of either team, it's cause of the team actually earning more free kicks than the other team, rather than bad umpiring?

Anyone?

 

[bodazoka]

We've also scored the most points.
And conceded the least.

Just dominating the key statistics right now!

Haters gunna hate.

 

[Hump 17]

Riewoldt free kick differential:

FF = 290
FA = 104
Diff = +186

Hardly a myth, that's an absurdly high differential in anyone's language.

For comparison:

Brown: 247/242 = +5
J. Reiwoldt: 73/71 = +2
Pav: 248/254 = -6
Buddy: 162/314 = -152

Hardly suprising for s leading forward that rarely in fact never starts behind his opponent and marks the ball at the highest point when ever possible. How often do you see Riewoldt wrestling his defender? How often does he push z blocked in the back or sling them to the ground? I would also say a lot of the frees he has got he's marked the ball anyway.

 

[Pusswah]

I'd like to see a knowledgable group of people review the games afterward and try to get an accurate free kick count. It would be hilarious to see how it compared to the actual count.

The AFL would never let it happen, say on TV or in the official media, since it would undermine the umpires and highlight their consistent poor performers.

Of course, finding a knowledgable group of people is a challenge. Finding such a group that knows footy would be like asking a bunch of wow nerds for advice on pulling chicks.

 

[RogersResults]

"We'd have won premierships if the umpires weren't against us!"

St Kilda supporter in the 1920's.

The eternal delusion of the loser mentality. Pathetic in supporters but disastrous if this type of thinking gets into the culture of the players and administration of a club.

 

[royalsfan]

Pay off The West, Channel 7 Perth, Radio 'Eagle' 6PR, the other WA Media and the Illuminati who all conspire to keep Freo down

Money well spent too

HaHa. May goodness those Freo muppets are a sour lot aren't they. Perhaps they should concentrate on their own little team and leave the big boys alone.

 

[Oxirane]

I'd like to see a knowledgable group of people review the games afterward and try to get an accurate free kick count. It would be hilarious to see how it compared to the actual count.

The AFL would never let it happen, say on TV or in the official media, since it would undermine the umpires and highlight their consistent poor performers.

Of course, finding a knowledgable group of people is a challenge. Finding such a group that knows footy would be like asking a bunch of wow nerds for advice on pulling chicks.

The umpiring department must do this internally to review umpire performance, so someone needs to leak the info.

The other thing I would like to see, is any testing they do on getting consistent rule interpretations. e.g. all the umpires watch the same set of footage for different situations and look at variations in decisions.

 

[sedders]

Get to the ball first on your feet and you wont give away a free.

Dont dive on the ball and you wont give away the free.

Have an athletic tall ruck and he wont need to grab or block and wont give away the free.

Team you team to tackle low and they wont give away a free.

Any team that shares these attributes will have a free kick count in their favor.

Priddis "Our tackling technique is very good and that shows with the free kicks we are giving away. You just gotta aim for the hips and we're looking to make contact with our shoulder, as low and as hard as possible. We do a lot of work with Justin Longmuir through tackling, part of training and I think it's showing on gameday".

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I remember Naitanui getting a ruck infringement free kick in a derby last year because Barlow got in the way of him being third man up. Given Cox and Griffin were the two actually contesting the ruck, I'm not sure why such an infringement is paid, given that such a tactic is basically nullifying Griffin from the contest.

My theory is that a lot of Eagles players have reputations that precede them. So Naitanui gets frees that other young rucks wouldn't. Same as Riewoldt getting free kicks Buddy could only dream of. Umpires have pets.

Ruck sheparding is a good rule, poorly judged. From this game:

Roughead and NickNat starting side by side, contest the ruck, Franklin comes third man in, crashes into Roughead and ball spills. Umpire rules Roughead sheparded NickNat out.

Kerr looks over shoulder and runs sideways with arms outstretched to shepard Roughead from the contest. Umpire calls play on, as Sewell was our ruckman.

Bad bounce favouring Hawthorn, Roughead holds position. wins tap, penalised for sheparding as he "crossed the line".

With regards Cox he is brilliant at playing from behind, and nuzzling his opponents' armpit, who is either pushed off the contest, or if he stands his ground gives away the high tackle.

 

[Seadog]

They have a massive difference between for and against, compared to every other team - pretty much 3 times, its a really good stat to be running

We did play 3 very poor teams in the first three rounds, second to the ball and poor tacklers.
Besides that we have the fairest players in the land.(so my mirror sez)

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Look at our percentage, avg goals, marks and possessions differentials.

We are winning more of the ball, solidly out marking, out possessing and scoring our opponents.

This means that we are likely to draw more frees because we are the ones being tackled, or copping hits after being first to the ball or probably more likely to be infringed in marking contests.

Our ruck dominance also sees teams regularly infringe, to try to curb this advantage.

As for out scoring, it is relevant because we have a solidly below average points scored to free kicks awarded ratio.

Regardless it is early days. More disciplined or more competitive opposition will mean these stats, much like the free kick differentials will decrease on average over time. Regression towards the mean.

 

[Mancey]

This has been happening for a while now. It is well known that Westcoast get an armchair ride from the umpires, especially at Subi.

Was highlighted by Brayshaw last year if I remember correctly.

Well geez, then it must be true.

 

[kane249]

Are you sure about that?

The whole reason there is a designated ruckman is so the ump knows which player isn't allowed to be blocked from going at the ball. Otherwise what's the point?

There's no rule about allowing every player a free run at the ball, otherwise every time a player stands in front of his opponent at a stoppage it would be a free kick.

The Melbourne/Naitanui thing is where the designated ruckman thing came into focus because the eagles were trying to claim two ruckman should both be protected under the rules, when clearly only the designated one should be.

There is no set in stone rule in the AFL that only the 2 designated ruckman can contest around the ground, only at centre bounces. This is why you see third men up at stoppages and why people also get credited with hit outs despite them not being designated ruckman. Heck if memory serves me correct Mark Seaby once got pinged for taking the ball out a ruck contest in a derby as he had it bounce straight to him despite Cox being the 'designated' ruckman at the time.

If Naitanui is trying to contest the ruck and Barlow makes no effort to contest and just blocks then it is technically a free kick for shepparding on the ruck contest.

Unless the AFL outlaws the third man up around the ground then there is no limit on who can contest a ruck knock and players are entitled to make a run to contest it accordingly.