Autopsy Freo Lose To North at Home

[DocT]

I am not sure what the rules say on this. I think you can award a free kick after the end of quarter 1/2/3 siren, but maybe not after the final siren?

But that may be not apply to boundary line decisions, maybe only to player actions (eg striking someone after the siren).

This wasn't the only ump timing BS. Tab's play on call when lining up for goal in Q3 was a joke. Surely the 30s doesn't start until the oppo player is standing properly on the mark. The timer was CLEARLY less than 30s from that point. And all the other times with other teams it goes well over 30s with not a peep from the umps. WTF????

 

[nurries]

One of the umps could cleary be heard shouting "play it."

Also does anyone remember in some sydney game last year something similar happening? And they actually went through and reviewed it before calling time??

Just imagine if it was Sydney or Collingwood? Of course it would of been reviewed and a free would of been awarded

 

[apuchar]

Becoming more clear each week that he's a ruckman. Can't believe we paid 2 firsts and a 2nd rounder for a ruckman when we already have one of the best rucks in the comp.

He got out-rucked by a midfielder. He isn't even a ruckman. I get the feeling he will only ever be a big bodied mid with very little nous.

 

[bushchook]

This wasn't the only ump timing BS. Tab's play on call when lining up for goal in Q3 was a joke. Surely the 30s doesn't start until the oppo player is standing properly on the mark. The timer was CLEARLY less than 30s from that point. And all the other times with other teams it goes well over 30s with not a peep from the umps. WTF????

Yeah this seemed to me like an example of a rule that's only applied to Freo. Like that time Michael Johnson got 4 weeks for accidentally bumping into an umpire. It didn't seem like Taberner took especially long.

 

[Redgum]

I would play both Johnson & Erasmus. Erasmus is very fierce, he will hunt the ball at all costs, a clearance beast I reckon. Johnson is our Mundy replacement. We need some new blood, will badly miss NOD ,if there is one guy that can light up the place it's him, he doesn't shy away from having a crack at the goals. I would bring in Sturt. I would leave Hughes, Banfield, Shultz out, Fyfe & now Taberner are injured. Shultz just doesn't kick enough goals and for that matter nor does Frederick but he can be electrifying. Sturt looks to be a proper forward player who needs to be given another chance.

 

[Taylor]

We should have tagged LDU with Jackson

 

[PurpleEyes]

I am not sure what the rules say on this. I think you can award a free kick after the end of quarter 1/2/3 siren, but maybe not after the final siren?

But that may be not apply to boundary line decisions, maybe only to player actions (eg striking someone after the siren).

They only have laws for the siren at the end of a quarter which is the same as end of the 4th/final quarter.
And common sense should tell us all that umpires can make decisions after a siren because they do this with 50m penalties and other infringements (eg. wobbling the goal posts, infringing on the mark) after sirens have sounded.
Umpires can make decisions after the siren, but they do need to signal the end of the quarter first.
Again, once the umpire believes there was not enough intent demonstrated to keep the ball in, then the only position the umpire can take for not giving Freo the Free Kick after the siren is if in the umpire's opinion, the siren sounded prior to the ball crossing the line. Whether the end of the quarter or game has been called is irrelevant, no different to a mark or any other free kick at that time of the game.

10.5 END OF QUARTER
(a) The end of a quarter occurs when any field Umpire or emergency Umpire first
hears the siren sounded by the Timekeepers to signal the end of a quarter.
The field Umpire shall acknowledge the siren and bring play to an end by blowing
a whistle and holding both arms above their head.
(b) For the avoidance of doubt, if immediately before hearing the siren to end a
quarter, a field Umpire is of the opinion that a Player should be awarded a Free
Kick or a Mark, the field Umpire shall signal that play has come to an end and then
award the Free Kick or Mark to the Player. A Free Kick will not be awarded where
the football has been kicked and, after the field Umpire has heard the siren,
lands Out of Bounds On the Full.

 

[bushchook]

(b) For the avoidance of doubt, if immediately before hearing the siren to end a
quarter, a field Umpire is of the opinion that a Player should be awarded a Free
Kick or a Mark, the field Umpire shall signal that play has come to an end and then
award the Free Kick or Mark to the Player. A Free Kick will not be awarded where
the football has been kicked and, after the field Umpire has heard the siren,
lands Out of Bounds On the Full.

I don't think the issue was with hearing the siren, but rather that the field umpire couldn't pay deliberate until the boundary umpire had signaled the ball had gone out. And by the time that happened, the siren had already gone.

 

[stax on the mull]

Do not get fooled by the clock time shown on the broadcast. That does not necessarily line up with the actual timekeeper's sounding of the siren. Often in games, I have seen that several seconds different to the sounding of the siren.

What if its something technical, like the boundary umpire has to indicate that the ball has crossed the line to the central umpires first and he hasn't done that until after the siren. So the delay in conveying message is part of the play ie. the boundary ump putting his hand up, blowing his whistle

 

[Square Peg]

also being at the game made me realise how absolutely horrific our leading patterns, or lack of, are. I have never seen a forward line move as little as ours did tonight.

Amen to that. I spent a good part of the game watching the forwards, when we had the ball further upfield. I am getting triggered just thinking about it

 

[Tundrawolf]

That’s why I’m out. I said it last year and they sucked me back in. This time I’m done. Will watch with some interest, but no emotional investment. Maybe I’m a fair weather supporter - but I reckon not.

That's the very definition of a fair weather supporter

 

[Lach72]

Amen to that. I spent a good part of the game watching the forwards, when we had the ball further upfield. I am getting triggered just thinking about it

Its untrue….they waved a hand in the air occasionally

 

[PurpleEyes]

What if its something technical, like the boundary umpire has to indicate that ball has crossed the line to the central umpire first and he hasn't done that until after the siren. So the delay in conveying message is part of the play ie. the boundary ump putting his hand up, blowing his whistle

That is not a thing in the laws and it would make no sense for it to be.

That is the equivalent of saying a goal can not be scored after the siren because the goal umpire has not signaled to the field umpire prior to a quarter siren sounding.
But, it would make sense for the field umpire to consult the boundary or goal umpire to ensure the ball crossed the line prior to the siren ... that is important.

Why is this so complicated?
If it was instead an out of bounds on the full kick, then we would not be asking all these questions. We would all just accept that if the ball crossed the line on the full prior to the siren, then it would be a Free Kick after the siren. We would not be asking if the boundary umpire signalled it in time.

 

[PurpleEyes]

I don't think the issue was with hearing the siren, but rather that the field umpire couldn't pay deliberate until the boundary umpire had signaled the ball had gone out. And by the time that happened, the siren had already gone.

No, that is not part of the rules and it makes no sense for it to be.

EDIT: That is, the field umpire needs to signal end of the quarter as soon as they hear the siren. But they can then award a free kick or give the all clear for a score as part of their usual umpiring duties. So on this occasion, the end of the quarter should have been signalled, the umpire should have then decided if a Free Kick was valid, then confirmed with the boundary umpire where the ball went out and if it did cross the boundary line prior to the siren ... no different to if it was an out of bounds on the full decision at the same point of time in the game.

 

[stax on the mull]

That is not a thing in the laws and it would make no sense for it to be.

That is the equivalent of saying a goal can not be scored after the siren because the goal umpire has not signaled to the field umpire prior to a quarter siren sounding.
But, it would make sense for the field umpire to consult the boundary or goal umpire to ensure the ball crossed the line prior to the siren ... that is important.

Why is this so complicated?
If it was instead an out of bounds on the full kick, then we would not be asking all these questions. We would all just accept that if the ball crossed the line on the full prior to the siren, then it would be a Free Kick after the siren. We would not be asking if the boundary umpire signalled it in time.

Isn't it the other way around with goal umpiring analogy. The umpire has to give all clear before the goal ump can signal.

 

[Footskill]

Gee Darcy has taken a step back too.

How many dropped marks.no

You would think with a slow, one-paced midfield that our strength would be stoppages and we would get burnt on the outside - but our clearance work is absolutely disgraceful. The slow ball movement is insipid, but in my opinion this week and last we lost the game in the middle. Other than the last few minutes, North were streaming the ball out of the centre with absolute ease. What is the solution? Johnson HAS to play next week, but is he really going to come in and be a better stoppage player than what we already have? Incredibly frustrating. It was the same last year, whenever we lost it was because our midfield got walked all over and made to look slow and weak.

Agree. It's glaringly obvious this year. But even with Mundy last year the mids had good patches but there was many occasions they

You would think with a slow, one-paced midfield that our strength would be stoppages and we would get burnt on the outside - but our clearance work is absolutely disgraceful. The slow ball movement is insipid, but in my opinion this week and last we lost the game in the middle. Other than the last few minutes, North were streaming the ball out of the centre with absolute ease. What is the solution? Johnson HAS to play next week, but is he really going to come in and be a better stoppage player than what we already have? Incredibly frustrating. It was the same last year, whenever we lost it was because our midfield got walked all over and made to look slow and weak.

Yes it's been glaringly obvious the first two games. It was same last year even with Mundy where the mids would have good patches but more often than not go to sleep in the 3rd quarter or get dominated.

 

[bushchook]

You would think with a slow, one-paced midfield that our strength would be stoppages and we would get burnt on the outside - but our clearance work is absolutely disgraceful. The slow ball movement is insipid, but in my opinion this week and last we lost the game in the middle. Other than the last few minutes, North were streaming the ball out of the centre with absolute ease. What is the solution? Johnson HAS to play next week, but is he really going to come in and be a better stoppage player than what we already have? Incredibly frustrating. It was the same last year, whenever we lost it was because our midfield got walked all over and made to look slow and weak.

We also lost like 4 games last year because we couldn't kick straight.

 

[stax on the mull]

Someone's got to show Darcy that footage of him kicking a set shot from outside 50m in a final against Subi when he was a pup playing for Peel and doing the finger shhh to the Subi crowd.

One time ok...he decides its best to set the ball up at the top of the square but his little dink with the foot goes closer to a contest near goal line...so the 2nd time he plays on and wheels around onto his left and decides he's really a classy midfielder and is going to kick it low and flat to a contest.

 

[PurpleEyes]

Isn't it the other way around with goal umpiring analogy. The umpire has to give all clear before the goal ump can signal.

The field umpire giving the goal umpire the all clear is something entirely different. That is so the goal umpire knows there wasn't a touched ball during the field of play and things of that sort that will affect if a score is valid or not, hence why the goal umpire seeks the field umpire's all clear approval prior to signalling a score.

I was trying to make the point that a goal umpire does not have too signal a score prior to the siren sounding for that score to count.
Likewise, a boundary umpire does not have too signal an out of bounds on the full prior to the siren, but both the field and the boundary umpires need to be convinced that the ball crossed the boundary line prior to the siren ... which is really the only thing that we should be debating about tonight's decision.

 

[stax on the mull]

The field umpire giving the goal umpire the all clear is something entirely different. That is so the goal umpire knows there wasn't a touched ball during the field of play and things of that sort that will affect if a score is valid or not, hence why the goal umpire seeks the field umpire's all clear approval prior to signalling a score.

I was trying to make the point that a goal umpire does not have too signal a score prior to the siren sounding for that score to count.
Likewise, a boundary umpire does not have too signal an out of bounds on the full prior to the siren, but both the field and the boundary umpires need to be convinced that the ball crossed the boundary line prior to the siren ... which is really the only thing that we should be debating about tonight's decision.

Let it go mate. They're not going to bring North back to WA so Hughes can have a shot after the siren some time before round 3.

 

[PurpleEyes]

Let it go mate. They're not going to bring North back to WA so Hughes can have a shot after the siren some time before round 3.

Freo did not deserve to win (or tie) that game with an after the siren free kick.

I just don't get why this is so complicated for so many people.

The ball did or did not cross the line before the siren and it was the decision of the umpires to make that call.
There are no technicalities or extenuating circumstances to this.
If they made a decision based on anything else, then they need to go and read the laws again ... which is something the commentators should definitely do given some of the junk opinions they offered after the siren.

 

[bushchook]

Someone's got to show Darcy that footage of him kicking a set shot from outside 50m in a final against Subi when he was a pup playing for Peel and doing the finger shhh to the Subi crowd.

One time ok...he decides its best to set the ball up at the top of the square but his little dink with the foot goes closer to a contest near goal line...so the 2nd time he plays on and wheels around onto his left and decides he's really a classy midfielder and is going to kick it low and flat to a contest.

Yeah this is really annoying about Darcy.

He's one of the few guys in the team who can hoof it 60m but he never pulls the trigger on it.

 

[mightymouse75]

Yeah this is really annoying about Darcy.

He's one of the few guys in the team who can hoof it 60m but he never pulls the trigger on it.

JL has coached him to be a Pussey.

 

[Deathly]

Finally bring myself to suss out the Freo site and see this:



12 minutes long too. Will it add to or ease the pain?

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Finally bring myself to suss out the Freo site and see this:

View attachment 1639986

12 minutes long too. Will it add to or ease the pain?

Watch it so I don't have to champ!