VFL Future direction - SANFL / AFL Reserves / PBs

[Phar Ted]

Just quit our aflw thingy team and use the funds in moving into the VFL.

 

[RossFC]

Just quit our aflw thingy team and use the funds in moving into the VFL.

We are going to be debt free soon, we should be able to do both.

 

[Great8]

Unfortunately as I’ve predicted the AFL reserves is bottom of the list of priorities for the AFL. Their number 1 priority is AFLW and then Tasmania and then in a few years it will be team NT, WA2 etc, etc.
They simply have no appetite for a true reserves comp otherwise it would already be done.
Let’s see what the SANFL do now as this year is a rare one in that neither Port or Crows will play finals which hasn’t happened in the comp before. They will be torn between giving better concessions but also ensuring they aren’t good enough to win flags. Some big decisions coming up.
What I don’t buy into is how much stronger the VFL is and I’d actually argue that the top 4 SANFL clubs would probably be too 4 in the VFL. The VFL standard is atrocious and the top up players are probably just as bad if not worse than than what are in the SANFL. There is good reason why any decent VFL top up player looks to come to the SANFL and play

 

[raptalia]

Well, The PAFC and the AFC have reached an agreement brokered by the AFL and the two AFL clubs will remain in the SANFL for the 2025 season.

It looks like the two AFL clubs have won concessions on top up players and programming of SANFL games. There is also a mention of junior development. I have not seen detail of the changes to the existing agreements but doubtless the PAFC will make a formal statement which hopefully will have some of the finer detail in it.

The ultimate solution is for an AFL Reserves competition but the AFL are obviously not hot on the idea as it may upset a few people in Victoria. The AFL appears resolved to a band aid strategy.

 

[WillemDaDrew]

- Port and Crows will be given more flexibility to add quality top-up players to their SANFL side next year in line with the Victorian’ clubs allowances in the VFL. The two South Australian clubs have argued the restrictions on their top-ups are an impediment to their players’ development prospects and leave them with weaker sides.

- There is a strong view Victorian sides have an advantage over their South Australian and Western Australian rivals due to the superior strength of the VFL as a state league.

- Additionally, the two SA clubs are also expected to make strong requests around their SANFL fixtures for next year which will help them get more game time into their AFL-listed emergencies. The two clubs are frustrated by clashes with their AFL and SANFL fixtures which sometimes prevent their AFL emergency players from playing at either level or on reduced game time. It is expected the two clubs will be heard on their fixture requests for next year otherwise Port Adelaide and Adelaide will reconsider their position on the issue.

- Both clubs have a contract to play in the SANFL next season but there was pressure on the AFL to either find a resolution to their problems or add them to the VFL 2025.

So, reading between the lines.
The SANFL basically admit hecking us over by the limiting the availability of appropriate top up's and having no state league junior programme for us to develop and play for our AFL reserve side since the Crows were introduced

 

[PowerBaz]

If you had someone like Choco coaching the seconds I’m sure they’d win more than they currently do.


The clubs attitude is almost like it’s a lost cause so it’s all too hard and unfair and hence we are where we are.

 

[kgerlach01]

Unfortunately as I’ve predicted the AFL reserves is bottom of the list of priorities for the AFL. Their number 1 priority is AFLW and then Tasmania and then in a few years it will be team NT, WA2 etc, etc.
They simply have no appetite for a true reserves comp otherwise it would already be done.
Let’s see what the SANFL do now as this year is a rare one in that neither Port or Crows will play finals which hasn’t happened in the comp before. They will be torn between giving better concessions but also ensuring they aren’t good enough to win flags. Some big decisions coming up.
What I don’t buy into is how much stronger the VFL is and I’d actually argue that the top 4 SANFL clubs would probably be too 4 in the VFL. The VFL standard is atrocious and the top up players are probably just as bad if not worse than than what are in the SANFL. There is good reason why any decent VFL top up player looks to come to the SANFL and play

I've been saying this for years, the VFL isn't a dream land. It's easily worse than the SANFL and WAFL. Particularly the stand alone teams. I mean they pulled out of state league games because they were getting pumped every year.

Also, talk to any player who's played in all 3 state leagues and I bet %95 would say the VFL is the weakest out the lot

 

[1954]

I've been saying this for years, the VFL isn't a dream land. It's easily worse than the SANFL and WAFL. Particularly the stand alone teams. I mean they pulled out of state league games because they were getting pumped every year.

Also, talk to any player who's played in all 3 state leagues and I bet %95 would say the VFL is the weakest out the lot

Agreed, the only advantage of the Maggies going into the VFL would be a more likely even playing field re the quality of top up players, so if the recent changes that will take place from 2025 have a similar effect and allows them to attract decent top ups both local AFL clubs are better off staying in the sanfl and waiting for a true AFL reserve's comp, which could still be light years away anyway.

 

[chiwigi]

I'm happy to stay SANFL without stupid restrictions.

But also with a proper coaching set up. Playing against bigger bodies and people TRYING TO WIN should aid our development, not hinder it.

Maybe it's our approach to it that completely wrong.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I'm happy to stay SANFL without stupid restrictions.

Have you met the SANFL?

The word is that we will get the same rules as the affiliated VFL teams but watch the SANFL wait til it is too late for us to leave then water down what they offer.

 

[PowerBaz]

I'm happy to stay SANFL without stupid restrictions.

But also with a proper coaching set up. Playing against bigger bodies and people TRYING TO WIN should aid our development, not hinder it.

Maybe it's our approach to it that completely wrong.

Absolutely it is. 'Attitude'. get rid of Hartlett for starters and put somebody in there to win.

 

[chiwigi]

Have you met the SANFL?

The word is that we will get the same rules as the affiliated VFL teams but watch the SANFL wait til it is too late for us to leave then water down what they offer.

Yes, I've also met the VFL/AFL same shit.

Like I said our approach is the only thing we can control, so we need to adjust that for success. We all know this in 3000 other threads.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Yes, I've also met the VFL/AFL same shit.

Like I said our approach is the only thing we can control, so we need to adjust that for success. We all know this in 3000 other threads.

I agree and I would also like to see us fight back harder with the SANFL and also pressure the AFL more to improve our conditions.

We definitely shouldn't be announcing we will stay in the SANFL until they are locked in.

 

[afl2004]

The umpiring in the sanfl is not worth it

 

[Coobk001]

What I don’t buy into is how much stronger the VFL is and I’d actually argue that the top 4 SANFL clubs would probably be too 4 in the VFL. The VFL standard is atrocious and the top up players are probably just as bad if not worse than than what are in the SANFL. There is good reason why any decent VFL top up player looks to come to the SANFL and play

This ignores why we need to be in the comp.

Firstly yes the SANFL this year is the strongest it has been in several years, so it is possible. It is also possible that the sheer size of football in Victoria dilutes the talent pool the VFL has as it has even less than the SANFL. Though in the majority of cases the VFL quality isn't propped up by the few top ups and non-AFL aligned teams, that make up the VFL Rep team. It is propped up by the sheer weight of AFL level talent in that comp. Port and the Crows being examples of AFL clubs in our comp, that have made the GF 3 times in 10 years and the finals several.

However the main reasons we need to be in there is to have more control of our top ups, more alignment on the rules with the rest of the comp. Right now we sit here with a bunch of 18-19 year olds, on an AFL list that are deep draft picks and thus expected to shoulder the load of leading the Magpies to success. That's never going to work. We need to be able to bring in experienced top ups. We have terrible midfield depth in our squad because we have a few absolutely elite talents we're investing everything into, so what would be handy is to bring in some midfield help. So we have brought in some some amateur and SANFL reserves top ups to help us, but in comparison Essendon were able to nab Jackson Hately. I can't imagine a world where Hugh Jackson wouldn't benefit from having a senior mid around him to take pressure off him.

If you look here you'll see 20+ ex AFL listed players dispersed through the AFL listed teams as top ups.

If we were playing to the same rules as the AFL, if we were playing with the same development conditions around our players, etc. Then absolutely, stay in the SANFL but we aren't.

 

[kgerlach01]

Agreed, the only advantage of the Maggies going into the VFL would be a more likely even playing field re the quality of top up players, so if the recent changes that will take place from 2025 have a similar effect and allows them to attract decent top ups both local AFL clubs are better off staying in the sanfl and waiting for a true AFL reserve's comp, which could still be light years away anyway.

Plus, with teams like Northern Bullants, Coberg and Frankson. Those are gautenteed wins. I dont see how that is good for development either. Walking into a game KNOWING it's just a matter of how much you win by.

 

[kgerlach01]

This ignores why we need to be in the comp.

Firstly yes the SANFL this year is the strongest it has been in several years, so it is possible. It is also possible that the sheer size of football in Victoria dilutes the talent pool the VFL has as it has even less than the SANFL. Though in the majority of cases the VFL quality isn't propped up by the few top ups and non-AFL aligned teams, that make up the VFL Rep team. It is propped up by the sheer weight of AFL level talent in that comp. Port and the Crows being examples of AFL clubs in our comp, that have made the GF 3 times in 10 years and the finals several.

However the main reasons we need to be in there is to have more control of our top ups, more alignment on the rules with the rest of the comp. Right now we sit here with a bunch of 18-19 year olds, on an AFL list that are deep draft picks and thus expected to shoulder the load of leading the Magpies to success. That's never going to work. We need to be able to bring in experienced top ups. We have terrible midfield depth in our squad because we have a few absolutely elite talents we're investing everything into, so what would be handy is to bring in some midfield help. So we have brought in some some amateur and SANFL reserves top ups to help us, but in comparison Essendon were able to nab Jackson Hately. I can't imagine a world where Hugh Jackson wouldn't benefit from having a senior mid around him to take pressure off him.

If you look here you'll see 20+ ex AFL listed players dispersed through the AFL listed teams as top ups.

If we were playing to the same rules as the AFL, if we were playing with the same development conditions around our players, etc. Then absolutely, stay in the SANFL but we aren't.

The VFL was incredibly weak even before the expansion. Like I'm all for hating the SANFL but let's stop pretending the VFL/A is or once was a stronger competition.

 

[Doctor Feel]

We still wont be playing with AFL rules and interpretations. Last touch out of bounds lel

 

[Bump Bailey]

The umpiring in the sanfl is not worth it

A good team will always overcome shit umpiring.

Bad umpiring didn’t stop us from reaching Grand Finals in 2014, 2017 and 2019.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

A good team will always overcome shit umpiring.

Bad umpiring didn’t stop us from reaching Grand Finals in 2014, 2017 and 2019.

I would normally agree with this but the SANFL umpiring is beyond bad, it is blatant cheating.

They even came our a few years ago and said that they pay more free kicks against the AFL boys "because they are stronger".

I'm still trying to find that one in the rule book.

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[Schulzenfest]

I would normally agree with this but the SANFL umpiring is beyond bad, it is blatant cheating.

They even came our a few years ago and said that they pay more free kicks against the AFL boys "because they are stronger".

I'm still trying to find that one in the rule book.

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And even if it were in the rule book, most of our SANFL team are skinny teenagers and glorified ammos players, so it's not even true.

 

[GremioPower]

let's stop pretending the VFL/A is or once was a stronger competition.

The whole point is having us playing against… [checks list] Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscray, Geelong, G. Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North, Richmond, St Kilda, and Sydney.

Isn’t that the goal of an AFL Reserves competition?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The whole point is having us playing against… [checks list] Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscray, Geelong, G. Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North, Richmond, St Kilda, and Sydney.

Isn’t that the goal of an AFL Reserves competition?

No the whole point is player development.

And having our kids play with only young part time players who aren't up to the grade and have never been in an AFL program or played to am AFL game plan does nothing to help them learn what it takes to become an AFL professional.

If I trusted the SANFL to give us reasonable rules and umpiring I'd be happy for us to stay. Bet decades of petty bitterness says that's not likely.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[chiwigi]

The whole point is having us playing against… [checks list] Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscray, Geelong, G. Coast, GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North, Richmond, St Kilda, and Sydney.

Isn’t that the goal of an AFL Reserves competition?

Not for me, all things being equal I enjoy watching the reserves playing Norwood more than I would Gold Coast.

It's the 'all things being equal' part that is difficult to ascertain.

 

[Coobk001]

The VFL was incredibly weak even before the expansion. Like I'm all for hating the SANFL but let's stop pretending the VFL/A is or once was a stronger competition.

I disagree, I think this concept the SANFL is significantly stronger is a myth. The VFL would be totally comparable. If you loaded our reserves sides (a few years back when we had strong depth) with the sorts of top ups the other AFL sides can use, we would've won an SANFL flag. The Crows would've probably bagged one by now as well.