Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

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Charlie Bucket said:
Lots of ordinary players recruited by Dalrymple.

Would be interesting to see how he stacks up against other long term recruiters. Like a Dodoro.
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A lot of luck is involved after the first 20 picks.

Any comparison to have some meaning should really just be focussed on when real talent is available and see how their percentage strike rate goes there

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Charlie Bucket said:
Rourke a massive success? Bit of an exaggeration. JJ and Dalhaus were a massive success, Rourke was a decent cheap pick up. Jong similar.
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Massive success maybe an exaggeration but I’d still call it a success, would have played a fair few games if not for injuries and was a rookie pick. Even McLean etc 100 games and would have been a lot more if not for the knees, I’d say that’s a success at pick 30 odd.

I get where you’re coming from but I think that sort of miss rate would be pretty normal for picks 30-rookies, just feel you’d have to flesh the list out a bit more and divide it down to say mid range picks 20-40 and then late picks to rookies to really judge it. No point putting a pick 30 and a rookie in the same category and giving it a blanket pass/fail imo
 
lachy said:
A lot of luck is involved after the first 20 picks.

Any comparison to have some meaning should really just be focussed on when real talent is available and see how their percentage strike rate goes there

On SM-G996B using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

doggies ftw said:
Massive success maybe an exaggeration but I’d still call it a success, would have played a fair few games if not for injuries and was a rookie pick. Even McLean etc 100 games and would have been a lot more if not for the knees, I’d say that’s a success at pick 30 odd.

I get where you’re coming from but I think that sort of miss rate would be pretty normal for picks 30-rookies, just feel you’d have to flesh the list out a bit more and divide it down to say mid range picks 20-40 and then late picks to rookies to really judge it. No point putting a pick 30 and a rookie in the same category and giving it a blanket pass/fail imo
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I think his success has always been noted for his ability to snag a gun/really good player with late picks. But going through his list of players, which I never noticed till today, there’s a hell of a lot of misses compared to the ones he got right.

Comparing as a whole to other recruiters probably the best gauge of where he sits without having to dig down in to selection pick vs talent at draft time vs career output.

Is his ability to get it right more often than the average recruiter really that evident? The list I posted doesn’t exactly stand out as being that.
 

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Removing the players that played in flags, or carved out a half decent career. There’s still a massive amount of bad misses.

Fergus Greene
Cal Porter
Nathan Mullinger McHugh
Kieren Collins
Lukas Webb
Declan Hamilton
Daniel Pearce
Brett Goodes
Matt Fuller
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Hrovat
Josh Prudden
Michael Talia
Matthew Panos
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jack Redpath
Mark Austin
Jayden Schofield
Tom Hill
Ed Barlow
Christian Howard.
Jason Tutt.
Lucas Markovic
Shane Thorne
James Mulligan
Brodie Moles
Eddie Prato
Patrick Rose

Wide range of selections. Some 1st and 2nd rounders in that too.

Almost 3 players recruited every year he was there could be considered poor to just ok.
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Removing the players that played in flags, or carved out a half decent career. There’s still a massive amount of bad misses.

Fergus Greene
Cal Porter
Nathan Mullinger McHugh
Kieren Collins
Lukas Webb
Declan Hamilton
Daniel Pearce
Brett Goodes
Matt Fuller
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Hrovat
Josh Prudden
Michael Talia
Matthew Panos
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jack Redpath
Mark Austin
Jayden Schofield
Tom Hill
Ed Barlow
Christian Howard.
Jason Tutt.
Lucas Markovic
Shane Thorne
James Mulligan
Brodie Moles
Eddie Prato
Patrick Rose

Wide range of selections. Some 1st and 2nd rounders in that too.

Almost 3 players recruited every year he was there could be considered poor to just ok.
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I think that’s rough on Redpath. He went at 2 goals/game in 2016 and would’ve been in Cordys place for the flag if not for injury. Solid player whose body completely let him down.

Tom Campbell is another perfectly fine role player who has just signed on to play his 13th (!!!) season next year.

I wouldn’t count either of these as spuds or dud picks
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Lots of ordinary players recruited by Dalrymple.

Would be interesting to see how he stacks up against other long term recruiters. Like a Dodoro.
Click to expand...
Have a look at 2015. Dodo had picks 5 and 6 and took Aaron Francis and Darcy Parish, Alex Morgan at 29, Mason Redman at 30….

Carlton took Harry McKay and Charlie Curnow at 10 and 12

We took Dunkley at 25 (and tried for Ben keays), Keiran Collins (admittedly a bust but talls were never Dalrymples strong suit, Marcus Adams at 35 (awesome until his body gave out), and Bailey Williams at 48 - has had some outstanding years and still a solid contributor.

It was a crap draft, but we picked the eyes out of the areas we had picks. Lots of crap players drafted around us.

Not saying Dalrymple was the second coming of recruiter heaven but he had a damn good eye. Best pick I can find that Dodo made was Zac Merrett at 26 in the 2014 draft. I think we are happier with what Dal plucked out of that one ☝️
 
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Charlie Bucket said:
Removing the players that played in flags, or carved out a half decent career. There’s still a massive amount of bad misses.

Fergus Greene
Cal Porter
Nathan Mullinger McHugh
Kieren Collins
Lukas Webb
Declan Hamilton
Daniel Pearce
Brett Goodes
Matt Fuller
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Hrovat
Josh Prudden
Michael Talia
Matthew Panos
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jack Redpath
Mark Austin
Jayden Schofield
Tom Hill
Ed Barlow
Christian Howard.
Jason Tutt.
Lucas Markovic
Shane Thorne
James Mulligan
Brodie Moles
Eddie Prato
Patrick Rose

Wide range of selections. Some 1st and 2nd rounders in that too.

Almost 3 players recruited every year he was there could be considered poor to just ok.
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I’d say Austin, Markovic and Goodes did exactly what was expected of them. Senior bodies to take a hit for a couple of seasons to support a young group. None of these guys would’ve been expected to play 100 games.

Jack Redpath was also a reasonable player and a good leader picked up as a rookie. He was in the leadership group actually.

Tom Campbell was a good back up option and played some good footy.

Never loved Mitch Honeychurch as a footballer but he’d of played 50 odd games? As a late pick which is commendable.

I wouldn’t call any of the above busts based on where they were picked and there contribution.
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Lots of ordinary players recruited by Dalrymple.

Would be interesting to see how he stacks up against other long term recruiters. Like a Dodoro.
Click to expand...
Dalrymple's time with us would stack up exceptionally well against Dodoro, as one example. They might be relatively on par with mid-late draft picks (a few gems amongst quite a lot of misses, as to be expected), Dalrymple knocked almost every 1st round pick out of the park over his time (Howard aside) compared to a number of failures at Essendon since Dodoro took charge. Whilst it's the 'easier' part of the draft to hit a success, there's still a big skill to it.
 
Sentinel said:
Dalrymple's time with us would stack up exceptionally well against Dodoro, as one example. They might be relatively on par with mid-late draft picks (a few gems amongst quite a lot of misses, as to be expected), Dalrymple knocked almost every 1st round pick out of the park over his time (Howard aside) compared to a number of failures at Essendon since Dodoro took charge. Whilst it's the 'easier' part of the draft to hit a success, there's still a big skill to it.
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The point he is making is that he isn't the messiah we all think he is,

He has had plenty of misses to go along with his hits,

Dodoro is clearly a dud and using him as the comparable isnt the best but even he also has his hits later in the draft
 
Nat Fyfe said:
I think that’s rough on Redpath. He went at 2 goals/game in 2016 and would’ve been in Cordys place for the flag if not for injury. Solid player whose body completely let him down.

Tom Campbell is another perfectly fine role player who has just signed on to play his 13th (!!!) season next year.

I wouldn’t count either of these as spuds or dud picks
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Yep, utterly bizarre way of framing what's a failure when by definition, there are 40+ players on the list and only 22/23 players get a game at any given point in time. By definition, injuries aside, there's going to be players who don't get games simply because you have to draft players to pad out a list.

As many people have pointed out, you can only compare to expectations. A median amount for a rookie listed player is about 10-15 AFL games, ie, any player in the rookie list (who by definition is the 40+th player recruited onto a list to try and squeeze into a best 22). So, any rookie listed player that gets to at least 15 or so games is in by definition the top half of the history of rookie listed players.

Therefore, drafting someone like Tom Campbell can only be considered a resounding success.

For example, 32 players were drafted after Tom Campbell in the 2011 Rookie Draft - excluding Cat B, scholarship players etc. Just players in an open market.

Campbell has played 56 AFL games.

Only 5 of those 32 players have played more than 56 AFL games: Marley Williams, Jack Crisp, Sam Menegola, Mark Baguely, Sam Gibson.

In fact, the 11 players drafted immediately before Campbell played a grand total of 14 games between them, so it's not even showing the full extent of how good of a pick it was.

Just ridiculous assessment. If anything, someone like Campbell in terms of talent identification far exceeded hist draft slot output than some of the "credit where credit is due" output like Richards who arguably was somewhat disappointing for a pick 16 in the draft, until the last two seasons.
 

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threenewpadlocks said:
Yep, utterly bizarre way of framing what's a failure when by definition, there are 40+ players on the list and only 22/23 players get a game at any given point in time. By definition, injuries aside, there's going to be players who don't get games simply because you have to draft players to pad out a list.

As many people have pointed out, you can only compare to expectations. A median amount for a rookie listed player is about 10-15 AFL games, ie, any player in the rookie list (who by definition is the 40+th player recruited onto a list to try and squeeze into a best 22). So, any rookie listed player that gets to at least 15 or so games is in by definition the top half of the history of rookie listed players.

Therefore, drafting someone like Tom Campbell can only be considered a resounding success.

For example, 32 players were drafted after Tom Campbell in the 2011 Rookie Draft - excluding Cat B, scholarship players etc. Just players in an open market.

Campbell has played 56 AFL games.

Only 5 of those 32 players have played more than 56 AFL games: Marley Williams, Jack Crisp, Sam Menegola, Mark Baguely, Sam Gibson.

In fact, the 11 players drafted immediately before Campbell played a grand total of 14 games between them, so it's not even showing the full extent of how good of a pick it was.

Just ridiculous assessment. If anything, someone like Campbell in terms of talent identification far exceeded hist draft slot output than some of the "credit where credit is due" output like Richards who arguably was somewhat disappointing for a pick 16 in the draft, until the last two seasons.
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If we’re accusing others of ridiculous assessment, you probably shouldn’t claim Campbell a more successful draft selection than Richard’s just because he took till the age of 21 to hit his straps.

I’d also say claiming Campbell just being drafted to pad the list due to his rookie selection means that we can put JJ’s career purely down to luck as his selection 9 spots later would put him in that same bracket wouldn't it as being recruited to pad the list? The same can be said for Dalhaus?

The 3rd list I posted clearly states that some carved out a decent career. Campbell, Redpath, Rourke etc are these players.

Not sure why you’re getting upset they haven’t been listed as successful pick ups when no recruiter would genuinely believe they nailed it with those picks. Decent careers, but nothing anybody should be praising Dalrymple about. That goes for the other 25+ on that list.
 
Nat Fyfe said:
I think that’s rough on Redpath. He went at 2 goals/game in 2016 and would’ve been in Cordys place for the flag if not for injury. Solid player whose body completely let him down.

Tom Campbell is another perfectly fine role player who has just signed on to play his 13th (!!!) season next year.

I wouldn’t count either of these as spuds or dud picks
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adogsfan5 said:
2016-
Port away
Crows at home
Tigers at home

He was really bloody good in these games.
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Redpath should’ve carved out a better career than he did.

Lack of commitment perhaps? Didn’t mind big saturday nights back in the day, that rolled in to Sunday’s, just as Biggs and Libba did. Did that cost him more games? Match conditioning? Stronger more resilient body?

I don’t believe the club would be content with his return across 6 years or whatever it was.

Even removing the players mentioned from that list. Dalrymple bottled a hell of a lot of selections.
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Redpath should’ve carved out a better career than he did.

Lack of commitment perhaps? Didn’t mind big saturday nights back in the day, that rolled in to Sunday’s, just as Biggs and Libba did. Did that cost him more games? Match conditioning? Stronger more resilient body?

I don’t believe the club would be content with his return across 6 years or whatever it was.

Even removing the players mentioned from that list. Dalrymple bottled a hell of a lot of selections.
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Pretty sure he did his knee whilst playing but also came into the afl with knee issues so I think it was his knees that cost him.
 
adogsfan5 said:
Pretty sure he did his knee whilst playing but also came into the afl with knee issues so I think it was his knees that cost him.
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I don’t think it was his knee injury that ended his career. He continued playing local footy for several years after retiring. It hindered it, but didn’t end it.

I think that points to a lack of commitment to being a professional footballer.
 
Of course Dalrymple had misses as well, if any recruiter picked a 150 gamer at every slot they’d be getting paid more than senior coaches. It just doesn’t happen.

I don’t have the time or inclination to look into it but I’ll go out on a limb and say Dalrymple’s hit rate with us was better than most if not all other teams. And it might have only been like 25% but that’s still wildly high in the scheme of things
 
Placeholder to see how our final structure compares to the proactive reigning premiers

AFL
Craig McRae – Senior coach
Hayden Skipworth – Senior assistant (midfield coach)
Scott Selwood – Assistant Coach (forward line) coach
Jordan Roughead – Assistant Coach (backline line)
Justin Leppitsch – Director of Strategy and Innovation
Brendon Bolton – Director of Coaching, Learning, and Leadership

Development/ VFL
Josh Fraser – Head of Development and VFL Senior Coach
Neville Jetta – Development coach
Chloe McMillan – Development coach
Andy Otten – Development coach
Harmit Singh – Head of Academies
Brendan McCartney – Development (PT)
 
ossie_21 said:
Placeholder to see how our final structure compares to the proactive reigning premiers

AFL
Craig McRae – Senior coach
Hayden Skipworth – Senior assistant (midfield coach)
Scott Selwood – Assistant Coach (forward line) coach
Jordan Roughead – Assistant Coach (backline line)
Justin Leppitsch – Director of Strategy and Innovation
Brendon Bolton – Director of Coaching, Learning, and Leadership

Development/ VFL
Josh Fraser – Head of Development and VFL Senior Coach
Neville Jetta – Development coach
Chloe McMillan – Development coach
Andy Otten – Development coach
Harmit Singh – Head of Academies
Brendan McCartney – Development (PT)
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Didn't know Bmac was there
 
Unless you are going to compare Dalrymple's hit rate at the Dogs v the same at the Swans.

Then this entire conversation is as pointless as it is completely subjective.

Errrr....forget that. Even if you do, it is still going to land squarely on being as pointless as it is completely subjective.

One mans (or woman's) draft bust is another's journeyman role player.

Dalrymple was a cornerstone of our premiership list build, but there are so many intangibles that go into such a build that no man (or woman) can truly lay claim to sole ownership of the team. To slaughter a whorey old trope. There may be an I in Simon, but there isn't one in team. No doubt he hit big with The Bont, got lucky with the teams heart and soul in Libba and nailed all of the first rounders as a decent recruiter should. Something that the club has continued to in his absence.

However to downplay his misses leads one to think that the cult like status that he has in here is bordering on the ridiculous.

In my completely subjective opinion. You guys really should let him go. But Im sure you won't as it's a subject that will seemingly be revisited until the end of time. Especially when a cudgel is needed to point out the current recruiting teams failures.
 
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Norm De Guerre said:
Unless you are going to compare Dalrymple's hit rate at the Dogs v the same at the Swans.

Then this entire conversation is as pointless as it is completely subjective.

Errrr....forget that. Even if you do, it is still going to land squarely on being as pointless as it is completely subjective.

One mans (or woman's) draft bust is another's journeyman role player.

Dalrymple was a cornerstone of our premiership list build, but there are so many intangibles that go into such a build that no man (or woman) can truly lay claim to sole ownership of the team. To slaughter a whorey old trope. There may be an I in Simon, but there isn't one in team. No doubt he hit big with The Bont, got lucky with the teams heart and soul in Libba and nailed all of the first rounders as a decent recruiter should. Something that the club has continued to in his absence.

However to downplay his misses leads one to think that the cult like status that he has in here is bordering on the ridiculous.

In my completely subjective opinion. You guys really should let him go. But Im sure you won't as it's a subject that will seemingly be revisited until the end of time. Especially when a cudgel is needed to point out the current recruiting teams failures.
Click to expand...
It also doesn't really take into account the development side of the equation, making it even more subjective. Do the Saints and Suns have bad talent identification or are they unable to develop suitably talented juniors? Maybe a mix of both. How can you ever know for sure?
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Worshipping at the alter of Dalryimple. A generation old past time that most have participated in. Myself included.

Interesting to look at the players he brought in over his time at the club.

Outright nailed, smacked out of the park, with later or rookie selections. Hard to do, and only achievable by the best out there. Credit where credit is due.
Luke Dalhaus
Tory Dickson
Bailey Dale
Caleb Daniel
JJ

First round picks that more often than not teams get right. A few gems in there including the GOAT Bont, Macrae’s another possibly. Clay lucky to be in there. Not sure many clubs would take Clays career if it meant handing over a 1st rounder. Anyway, credit where credit is due…
Marcus Bontempelli
Aaron Naughton
Ed Richard’s
Josh Dunkley
Jake Stringer
Jack Macrae
Clay Smith (B Grader)

Aaaaand the rest. A small handful of decent players that haven’t/didn’t hit their potential across a whole career. One or two lucky ones, and the rest that were downright awful…
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Patrick Lipinski
Cal Porter
Bailey Williams
Nathan Mullinger McHugh
Kieren Collins
Lukas Webb
Toby McLean
Declan Hamilton
Rourke Smith
Daniel Pearce
Brett Goodes
Matt Fuller
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Hrovat
Josh Prudden
Michael Talia
Matthew Panos
Fletcher Roberts
Lin Jong
Tom Campbell
Alex Greenwood
Jack Redpath
Mark Austin
Jayden Schofield
Tom Hill
Ed Barlow
Christian Howard.
Jason Tutt.
Lucas Markovic
Shane Thorne
James Mulligan
Brodie Moles
Eddie Prato
Patrick Rose

Didn’t realise how many spuds he recruited until now. He seemed to go at a rate of 80% busts, 20% guns. Not a lot of middle ground.
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Bit harsh on Bailey Williams - great player
I was so glad we picked up Kieren Collins at the time - thought he was going to be our fullback of the century - never clicked...
 

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