Rumour Future of the club (Bevo, board, assistant coaches, football department)

[VogonProsthetnic]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

If you want to believe the new age BS about the coach needing to be your best friend, good luck. It’s the results that measure how good the coach is.

 

[Dogsman16]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

I’ll bite. Bear in mind hard to make an accurate assessment cause I’m sure Bont is not going to announce publicly who is directly responsible for the issues.

What I will say is that Beveridge has hands over basically the entire football department. Far more than most other coaches in the AFL. If there are problems with the club (which there are) it’s pretty hard to suggest one way or another he’s not involved.

If Bont said “our list management is not good enough” then Bev is involved.

If Bont said “we don’t have high grade assistants” then once again Bevs involved.

Bev doesn’t seperate himself from any facet of the operation of the team. Would be Hard to fathom our players not being smart enough to determine this.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Yep, so would you prefer the Rocket years of three consecutive top four finishes and no premierships or no top four, two GF and one flag?

Pretty unlikely that you can win a flag outside the top 4.

 

[bresker]

You can talk about list management till the cows come home, but in any professional sport the buck stops with the coach.

I was just looking at our draft history from 2013 - present. Certainly we are compromised in recent seasons. But it's not much different to 2013 when we got Bont - followed by Fuller, Honeychurch and Goodes. Can't blame that on Father - Sons.

2015 we got Dunkley and Adams but they're gone. Why? Rumours and hearsay ...

2014 we nailed it - McLean, Dale , Daniel and R. Smith. Oh and the maligned Cordy - doing well at St Kilda.

2016 we got Young, Lipinski and Ferg Greene - all at other clubs. Handy depth, but the coach didn't think so. English may follow out the door.

2017 we got Naughton and Richards. No depth in Porter or Gowers. The latter was strongly rumoured to be a coach's pick.

2018 we chose VFL players Hayes & Cavarra with later picks, as well as Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

. Hayes and Young ended up briefly at other clubs. We have a very handy depth player in Sweet who may well have a good career at another club.

From then on , yes our drafts have been compromised. But this team is full of players from 2013 - 2018. Is the club right to bet the house on Marra and Darcy ? Time will tell.

But the coach needs to get the best out of the players drafted from 2013 to the present and he's not. Look at Dale, Daniel, Williams etc. They've gone backwards. Depth is only part of the problem.

Our best players might be carrying the bottom six, but they're carrying the next rung down too, including former AA players.

The buck stops with the coach.

A bunch of handy depth players are plying their trade elsewhere.

Who is to blame? No-one and everyone. But the buck stops with the coach.

 

[Dogsman16]

Yep, so would you prefer the Rocket years of three consecutive top four finishes and no premierships or no top four, two GF and one flag?

I think what we all want as fans is for the club to maximise the ceiling of the list. Rocket did. Bevo has not. Despite 2 amazing 4 week patches Bevo for the vast majority has not maximised the assets he has at his disposal.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

The captain of the club will only ever publicly run the party line.

As it stands the party line is that Beveridge will remain coach.

How thats shaking out in private as we speak is another question entirely.

 

[hutchy31]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

He should still go. The players’ voice is obviously important, but if they think that his coaching, game plan and team selection has been fine the past couple of years then that would be incredibly concerning tbh.

The problem with having what appears to be a fair amount of control over footy operations is that when it goes pear-shaped then you can’t really point the finger at anyone else. He tried to throw list management under the bus recently, after blaming the players for a few weeks. I can’t imagine that’s instilling a lot of loyalty and confidence in those groups.

He’s been great for the club overall, but it’s time to go.

 

[_Cerberus_]

If you want to believe the new age BS about the coach needing to be your best friend, good luck. It’s the results that measure how good the coach is.

Never said anything about some so called new age BS, whatever that even means. I couldn't care less about Bevo myself, was a genuine curious question. Because some of the "ITK" stuff, alludes to the possibility that the players don't like Bevo or his methods. Which would make the decision to move him on easier for all here.

Was just curious how people would respond if Bont of all people came out and said he backs Bevo, and so do the other players. It would put the views of many at conflict with what they think is happening behind the scenes. Just find it interesting if people would still tell Bont himself to get effed, and dismiss the captains opinion on why things are how they are. Because we all look up to him.

Also I think we all need to stop drinking our own bathwater. Team is not top four material. You said it yourself, results are telling. We have never once been a top four team. Always finish in the fringes just inside, or just outside the eight. That is a good summary of where our list is at, and how much we need to improve it, depth wise, and with better coaching around them. If we keep pretending we are a top four team, we will just keep clogging the list with "top up" players like we are in now mode, and ignore the blatant issues. Good teams routinely finish inside the top four.

I'm all for fresh change as well, all across the board, new coaches across the board and better list management decisions, and a new fitness guy, because us coming out flat in almost every third quarter this year was poor. We are either unfit, or mentally fragile.

 

[NBates]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

Well some players have already said this I think. I read Weightman today say they love him (words to that effect).

Anyway, for some, if not all, it's like a bloody cult. They all believe in Bevo and will follow him like the kids did the pied piper.

Players aren't accountable. Why would you not want a boss who doesn't want to upset you. The exceptions are those that aren't his favourites. No one gets selected on form or ability necessarily - just ask West.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

You can talk about list management till the cows come home, but in any professional sport the buck stops with the coach.

I was just looking at our draft history from 2013 - present. Certainly we are compromised in recent seasons. But it's not much different to 2013 when we got Bont - followed by Fuller, Honeychurch and Goodes. Can't blame that on Father - Sons.

2015 we got Dunkley and Adams but they're gone. Why? Rumours and hearsay ...

2014 we nailed it - McLean, Dale , Daniel and R. Smith. Oh and the maligned Cordy - doing well at St Kilda.

2016 we got Young, Lipinski and Ferg Greene - all at other clubs. Handy depth, but the coach didn't think so. English may follow out the door.

2017 we got Naughton and Richards. No depth in Porter or Gowers. The latter was strongly rumoured to be a coach's pick.

2018 we chose VFL players Hayes & Cavarra with later picks, as well as Lachie Young. Hayes and Young ended up briefly at other clubs. We have a very handy depth player in Sweet who may well have a good career at another club.

From then on , yes our drafts have been compromised. But this team is full of players from 2013 - 2018. Is the club right to bet the house on Marra and Darcy ? Time will tell.

But the coach needs to get the best out of the players drafted from 2013 to the present and he's not. Look at Dale, Daniel, Williams etc. They've gone backwards. Depth is only part of the problem.

Our best players might be carrying the bottom six, but they're carrying the next rung down too, including former AA players.

The buck stops with the coach.

A bunch of handy depth players are plying their trade elsewhere.

Who is to blame? No-one and everyone. But the buck stops with the coach.

Have a look at our 2016 premiership 22.

It was a very young team - look at how many left the club, retired or got injured.

You could hardly say we managed our players particularly well post 2016.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

I asked this question a few pages back and no one bit. For those in the 100% sack Bevo mind set, and feel that he is the issue. What if Bont comes out and says the players back Bevo, and that they feel he is not the issue.

How would that conflict with your desires to see him sacked / take the blame if the players turn out to be behind him?

I’d stil sack Bevo. The players need a new voice, a new direction and blind Freddy can sss a new game plan. Any Bevo loyalty is (a) lovely and (b) irrelevant. He won a flag, he got to the dance again in 2021, the guy is a legend and I love him. So do many players probably.

He’s also lost the plot, is making clearly terrible match day decisions, has overseen a season from hell (apparently without any regret) and has been in the role at least 2 years 2 long,

The players can meet him at Yarraville pub for a Sunday sesh if they love him so much. They can also be invigorated by a new coach and gameplan for 2024.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Never said anything about some so called new age BS, whatever that even means. I couldnt care less about Bevo myself, was a genuine curious question. Because some of the "ITK" stuff, alludes to the possibility that the players don't like Bevo or his methods. Which would make the decision to move him on easier for all here.

Was just curious how people would respond if Bont of all people came out and said he backs Bevo, and so do the other players. It would put the views of many at conflict with what they think is happening behind the scenes. Just find it interesting if people would still tell Bont himself to get effed, and dismiss the captains opinion on why things are how they are.

Also I think we need to stop drinking our own bathwater. Team is not top four material. You said it yourself, results are telling. We have never once been a top four team. Always finish in the fringes just inside, and just outside the eight. That is a good summary of where our list is at, and how much we need to improve it, depth wise, and with better coaching around them.

I'm all for fresh change as well, all across the board, new coaches across the board and better list management decisions, and a new fitness guy, ebcause us coming out flat in almost every third quarter this year was poor.

My badly made point was ‘ does it really matter what the players say?

If the results are subpar - the coach needs to be accountable.

The coach and players coming out and saying how much they love and respect each other shouldn’t matter.

 

[_Cerberus_]

My badly made point was ‘ does it really matter what the players say?

If the results are subpar - the coach needs to be accountable.

The coach and players coming out and saying how much they love and respect each other shouldn’t matter.

Nah thats fine, I didn't interpret it clearly. But fair answer none the less.

 

[Proffessor]

Pretty unlikely that you can win a flag outside the top 4.

Bevo has shown that it is possible to make GF's and even win them from outside the top 4.
Hard but possible.

The underappreciated problem for the Dogs is that it is more difficult for us to finish top 4 than most other sides due to our natural disadvantages i.e. less home ground advantage than most clubs, more travel than most Vic sides, less money, etc.

We had a few sides over the years finishing top four, but potentially burning themselves out in the process and then running out of juice in the finals.

It'd be nice to make top four but it's not the be all and end all, the way the media pundits make it out to be.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Players aren't accountable. Why would you not want a boss who doesn't want to upset you. The exceptions are those that aren't his favourites. No one gets selected on form or ability necessarily - just ask West.

This last part gets me a bit. A lot of the heat is rightfully on the coaches. But there needs to be more heat and tough love shown on the players. Where is their accountability? Seen our VC Macrae pull out a few chases this year. Seen Cody ignore Bonts instructions to man up a player on a kick out vs the Cats. Seen Dale keep doing stupid short kicks 15m, that results in a turnover, after having his head chewed off by Bevo on the bench a few weeks prior. Seen heaps of jogging on the spot, not manning up, not sticking tackles.

New coach won't change much unless the players start being accountable for inconsistent efforts, laziness, or turning it over heaps, or kicking to 1 vs 3 situations. Hoping the new coach will drive a proper rocket up their asses and set high standards. Feels like professional standards are lacking amongst some of our current players.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Pretty unlikely that you can win a flag outside the top 4

This. Our Grand Final runs were outliers, in which only one other team has done the same from memory. Crows in the 90s?

The late 2000s Eade team would smash both of our 2016 and 2021 Grand Final Teams. He had to contend with some VERY good teams at the top end, stacked with hard players, some of the best leaders on any clubs, and good coaches. Unlike the past few years, I reckon the top end hasn't been as dominant, and the league more even. If we want to rely on lucking out, we won't win another flag for 50 years again. Regular top four finishes over a 5 year period should be the aim.

Don't want to hear "Dogs are coming this year", "Top 4 list", pushed out from the media every single year. Until we actually start doing it. So much easier winning straight through to a Preliminary Final, than four away games on the trot.

 

[hutchy31]

This last part gets me a bit. A lot of the heat is rightfully on the coaches. But there needs to be more heat and tough love shown on the players. Where is their accountability? Seen our VC Macrae pull out a few chases this year. Seen Cody ignore Bonts instructions to man up a player on a kick out vs the Cats. Seen Dale keep doing stupid short kicks 15m, that results in a turnover, after having his head chewed off by Bevo on the bench a few weeks prior. Seen heaps of jogging on the spot, not manning up, not sticking tackles.

New coach won't change much unless the players start being accountable for inconsistent efforts, laziness, or turning it over heaps, or kicking to 1 vs 3 situations. Hoping the new coach will drive a proper rocket up their asses and set high standards. Feels like professional standards are lacking amongst some of our current players.

I would agree. I know some of us lament Bevo and the MC’s tendency to make a lot of changes, at least historically, but this year there should have been some senior players dropped.

I’m a fan of Dale, Williams and Cody, for instance, but they have had some shockers in the back half of the year and should have been sent to the VFL for a week or so. That we don’t appear to have any depth in those positions means those decisions can be problematic, I admit, but where is the selection integrity and adherence to instructions if there are no consequences for poor performance? You can’t possibly tell me Cody hasn’t been told to stay on the ground more and stop flying so much for the high mark, yet he continues to do it and get in the way while leaving no crumbers at ground level. All three of those guys are also terrible tacklers, when they actually manage to get to an opponent rather than just watch them glide past them.

It’s unfair to single them out, but these are just examples of where they kept their place all year when they patently weren’t performing well enough. There are worse selection decisions - VDM and Keath shouldn’t have played another game in the AFL for the dogs after the past few weeks (and the WC game in particular) yet here they still are. Absolute ****ing madness.

 

[_Cerberus_]

I would agree. I know some of us lament Bevo and the MC’s tendency to make a lot of changes, at least historically, but this year there should have been some senior players dropped.

I’m a fan of Dale, Williams and Cody, for instance, but they have had some shockers in the back half of the year and should have been sent to the VFL for a week or so. That we don’t appear to have any depth in those positions means those decisions can be problematic, I admit, but where is the selection integrity and adherence to instructions if there are no consequences for poor performance? You can’t possibly tell me Cody hasn’t been told to stay on the ground more and stop flying so much for the high mark, yet he continues to do it and get in the way while leaving no crumbers at ground level. All three of those guys are also terrible tacklers, when they actually manage to get to an opponent rather than just watch them glide past them.

It’s unfair to single them out, but these are just examples of where they kept their place all year when they patently weren’t performing well enough. There are worse selection decisions - VDM and Keath shouldn’t have played another game in the AFL for the dogs after the past few weeks (and the WC game in particular) yet here they still are. Absolute ******* madness.

I thought Weightman is lucky, an example of a player who can get away with periods of poor form, due to name or reputation, or our lack of depth. He did next to nothing the three weeks prior to the Cats game. Most other players in the same boat would have been dropped. He pulls a big game out of his behind now and then, but has too many lean periods. We need him to be more consistent. Hard to really drop anyone though, with the lack of depth, and no one knocking on the doors to come in as you say, in certain positions. Guess our hands are semi tied.

But bad habits being allowed is on the coaches though. He should be taught how to play a proper small forward role by now. If he and Naughton keep smashing into a team mate who is about to take a grab, causing them to drop it, or the ball to spill out. It is because they haven't been told otherwise. Lack of tackles and pressure is a team wide issue though, so I won't single him or any other players out for that. It is wrong when its Libba and Bont racking up almost the entirety of the teams tackles.

 

[Struggle]

One of the worst parts was the going into the season with one intra club game and a practice match against a VFL team in North. Every other team in the league had two hitouts

Lead us into the first 2 rounds completely unprepared, thinking 4 talls would work because they had played on Keath Gardner and Bruce all preseason with no test on capable defenders.

It was like they needed some form of secretive isolationist bullshit after they couldn't block off training sessions this year

 

[mitch hahn premium light]

back around the time of 2015-2017 doggies players being interviewed used to commonly refer to how much they loved Bevvo as a coach and how he was the coach you’d always wanted but never had.

From about 2019 til now I haven’t heard basically anyone say that.

As a point of comparison, I often hear young Sydney players complimenting Longmire and talking about the confidence he instills in them, Collingwood players saying how relaxed McRae is and how refreshed they are that McRae lets them play intuitive daring football.

 

[Oliver G]

Be interesting to see how long before we start announcing departures in both the coaching and playing list departments? I wouldn’t waste any time but can imagine the club taking the route of not wanting to hurt anyone’s feelings and waiting a few weeks to try and let the tension subside.

I would be on the front foot and be announcing at least the assistant coaching departures next week.

Won't see any player delistings until our VFL season is done, which is at least another week and hopefully another four.

 

[Chalky White]

Yeh we should probably admit we need a two year rebuild otherwise we’ll hear the same whinging about Bevo in a years time

There needs to be some severe list pruning to balance it. The list, the coach, the coaching panel, club management need a serious overhaul.

 

[Chalky White]

Dale has shown he can be an elite half back, Weightman is around a 2 goal a game small forward with easily fixable flaws, Darcy is one of the best prospects I've seen arrive at the club and can provide a big upside to the team if he's playing regularly, JJ is still a very good half back when he's available. Macrae, Daniel and Smith were never settled this year and played like it, all three have dominated finals and have no reason they can't be significantly better players next year. Every good team has role players who don't have much talent but get the job done, I can't think of one them in the team this year which comes down to poor coaching.

Weightman has easily fixable flaws? I wonder why they haven't been fixed yet then. Macrae is cooked as a player for us. Not saying he isn't a good player but he is surplus to our needs.
I would suggest Weightman is a role player, but isn't really playing his role. JOD showed some nice things in his first season. He will improve massively going forward.
I agree generally on our bottom 6-8 players, they are very poor and are close to the worst in the league. At least of the competitive teams.

 

[Dogs Rule]

great article, sums it up. we are a terribly coached side, probably the worst coached side in the league

We really are and that's the worst part of all of this. When you know things could be a lot better and not getting into Top 4 contention then coughing, spluttering, falling down a hole breaking both legs and dragging yourself to the finish line before slipping down the Grand Canyon...again.

Agree with the earlier points about previous coaches getting the best out of our list, Rocket and Wallace especially. You turned up to watch those sides, it was exciting, thrilling, it was fun and full of hope.

Right now, the coaches look tired, disinterested and inept, so do
the players and us supporters are p***** off and fed up. On top of that many of us are bored and disinterested - we don't want to watch this team.

 

[bresker]

It’s very hard to win a GF from 9th.