Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

[PzBlinky]

Menzel kicked 38 goals in 17 games and was dropped for the 2017 QF. My question still remains. Why was Menzel dropped for not offering enough defensively but Ollie keeps his spot?

And brought Menzel back in the next game. No particular insight to the thinking, but maybe post-game they realised how dumb it is to leave proven goal-kickers (especially those as skilled as Menzel) out just because they didn't do much in the way of defensive pressure.

But that was 7 years ago, and no offence to Ollie, but Menzel was a better player even with broken knees. OH certainly needs a few tricks beyond the odd nice mark if he can't hit the scoreboard every week (which to be fair, he was for quite a while).

 

[CatToTheFuture]

If Hawkins is a “navicular” as some are suspecting then I’m afraid we’ve seen the last of the big lad.

Sad way to go out but there’s no chance he’ll play again if true. Was a classic Achilles or Navicular. Seemingly innocuous at the time but given the way he pushed off and there was seemingly no impact then you’d think the Achilles, or certainly navicular where it’s just a load scenario pushing through to the foot.

Biggest giveaway for me is that it’s the same foot he had surgery on and missed most of last years pre season.

Foot injury - no impact - taking off on a lead - ends on crutches. I’m getting Jack Henry vibes.


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Jeez that's an ugly way to lose the big lad

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Agree apart for knevitt. He is mikes off and not afl standard.

That really isn't true at all.

 

[foxdog50]

Agree apart for knevitt. He is mikes off and not afl standard.

Humphries, Mannagh and Clohesy need a chance

His last game last year he was one of our best.. his played 6 or 8 games at a guess? Need to be given games to see what his got and reward his efforts of being 1 of our best players in the VFL

 

[rocker_oz33]

The guys will be totally spent.
Play with all those turnovers everyone got to extra hard...

 

[rocker_oz33]

His last game last year he was one of our best.. his played 6 or 8 games at a guess? Need to be given games to see what his got and reward his efforts of being 1 of our best players in the VFL

Mitchy knivet played well vs dogs last year.
Next min dropped..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Agree apart for knevitt. He is mikes off and not afl standard.

Humphries, Mannagh and Clohesy need a chance

I dunno, I think he's consistently one of the better performers in the 2s and he's been afl standard when played in the afl last year. He's not the answer because the question is inside mids not utility/wingers but I wouldn't be at all concerned with him playing the rest of the year out

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Mitchy knivet played well vs dogs last year.
Next min dropped..

Played well in both games against the dogs.

I think they're trying get more weight on his build so he's less wirey

 

[cats_09]

Difference between Round 7 and Round 15 midfield is astonishing. No wonder we got spanked!

Outs - C. Guthrie (27 disposals), R. Stanley (a ruckman!), T. Bruhn (big body mid) - starting Followers! B. Parfitt (big body mid)

In: T. Stewart, T. Atkins, J. Clark, G. Rohan (sub)

The ins are good players but I’d play Parfitt over Atkins and Stewart isn’t the same player he was back in the early rounds.


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Neither Bruhn or Parfitt are big bodied mids

Bruhn is 184cm & last year was listed as 83kg
Parfitt is even smaller at 180cm & last year at 82kg

Dangerfield at 189cm & 95kg+ is a big bodied mid; Holmes is 190cm but still a slight frame

In the VFL we have George Stevens at 189cm & previously 101kg (looks like he's dropped a few kgs), while Knevitt is 193cm & could use a summer or two in the gym to become another option

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That really isn't true at all.

To be fair, a Mike might be a unit of time measuring approximately 7 days

 

[rocker_oz33]

Played well in both games against the dogs.

I think they're trying get more weight on his build so he's less wirey

Maybe ...

He plays inside in side in the VFL.

Wing in the AFL.
Can take a over head mark in the on the wing.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Neither Bruhn or Parfitt are big bodied mids

Bruhn is 184cm & last year was listed as 83kg
Parfitt is even smaller at 180cm & last year at 82kg

Dangerfield at 189cm & 95kg+ is a big bodied mid; Holmes is 190cm but still a slight frame

In the VFL we have George Stevens at 189cm & previously 101kg (looks like he's dropped a few kgs), while Knevitt is 193cm & could use a summer or two in the gym to become another option

Holmes from the waist down is looking monstrous.....

Joke intentional but also true

 

[supahoops]

If we are gonna get done like that may as well do it with COS, Humphries, Knevitt, Mannagh et al. Neale, Conway, Mullin, Clark need games into them may as well find out one way or another.

 

[Finknottle]

And brought Menzel back in the next game. No particular insight to the thinking, but maybe post-game they realised how dumb it is to leave proven goal-kickers (especially those as skilled as Menzel) out just because they didn't do much in the way of defensive pressure.

But that was 7 years ago, and no offence to Ollie, but Menzel was a better player even with broken knees. OH certainly needs a few tricks beyond the odd nice mark if he can't hit the scoreboard every week (which to be fair, he was for quite a while).

Menzel was the most gifted guy at the club but he was scared of injuring his knees after multiple knee reconstructions. Tackling was a tradeoff for him, he could only run in straight lines.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Holmes from the waist down is looking monstrous.....

Joke intentional but also true

Eyes here please.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Maybe ...

He plays inside in side in the VFL.

Wing in the AFL.
Can take a over head mark in the on the wing.

Yeah long term that position changes I think, which is why I don't think he's playing. I they want him playing as many games as possible inside mid but can't elevate him at his build yet.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Eyes here please.

I am a heterosexual man, but no

 

[The Unforgiven]

He's not the main worry, but I think people are annoyed / worried that he's being hailed as the second coming as Joel Selwood whilst honestly not showing much. People also feel like surely some blokes in the 2s could offer a bit more.

He also looks incredibly small out there which is worrying even though he is young.

To overcome small, players need to be exceptionally talented. I've had high hopes of Clark becoming Zach Merrett or Lachie Neale. We need to give the kid a lot more time before we can put a strike through him. Not every kid will hit the ground running like the legend, Joel Selwood.

 

[thejester]

What you think and what he has shown are 2 completely different things.

This year he has shown he is a decent small forward. Hasn’t shown anything as a midfielder. That’s mostly down to the fact he hasn’t played midfield minutes in the VFL, but thinking he can come straight into the seniors and make a difference off the bat is fanciful.

Do I think he deserves more games in the seniors? Yes.
Will he help us win clearances and be a contested ball winner? No.

We are getting slaughtered and bashed up at the source and everything is falling apart from there. Defenders have lost confidence, the forward line is dysfunctional, and a small outside forward, on exposed form this year, isn’t going to make much of an impression.

Try him as a VFL midfielder by all means, but let’s see what some of our VFL mids can add (Stevens, Clohesy, Knevitt, Hardie, Conway) before throwing Mannagh in the deep end as an AFL midfielder.

His career didn't start the day he walked into Geelong. Averaged 25 disposals and 4.7 clearances a game last year for Werribee. That's a better stat line than Stevens, Clohesy and Knevitt this season. He was absolutely also capable of more: in Rd 1 he had 31 disposals 6 clearances, highest and second highest respectively on the ground. You only have to look at the highlights package to see how dynamic he is at stoppages.

I'm not at all adverse to playing one of the other guys you mentioned, and TBH I'd like to see the team structured so that Mannagh and Knevitt are playing other roles but can give burst on ball to try and give us some more depth. But if the aim is to gain a point of difference from our current midfield brigade then Mannagh clearly stands out.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I am a heterosexual man, but no

I can call you heterosexual but not Shirley.

 

[TheCattery2007]

TDK is only one year older than SDK.

I checked this recently. It’s about 18 months, but - that’s 18 months in a gym preparing to be a ruckman. Give SDK 18 months and he can be as big as his brother (only problem being his brother will have a further 18months in the gym!)


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[TheCattery2007]

There is no obsession-you are just not being objective.

I disagree. He was given the opportunity early and squandered it. If he’d played the team first game he’d possibly still be in the side. He didn’t so has been sent to Siberia for a while. That’s good coaching.


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[cats_09]

This is a real test for Scott and the MC. They eventually dropped Dahlhaus and Higgins two years ago but arguably played them way longer than they needed to. But they were outsiders. Are they prepared to drop club legends and premiership players? Bews is one they’ve bitten the bullet on, but there have to be others.

Ultimately I’m beyond caring if they call it ‘managed’ or not, but they have to start rewarding well-performing VFL players games, and multiple games, at the expense of under-performing senior players.

Agree on Dahlhaus, who played 10 games for the season but it was only 3 games after round 7

Higgins barely played senior football for in 2022 - a total of 5 games, with rounds 6 & 7 his only consecutive matches; he was phased out pretty early. His final game was against North in a fitting senior farewell

 

[TheCattery2007]

Neither Bruhn or Parfitt are big bodied mids

Bruhn is 184cm & last year was listed as 83kg
Parfitt is even smaller at 180cm & last year at 82kg

Dangerfield at 189cm & 95kg+ is a big bodied mid; Holmes is 190cm but still a slight frame

In the VFL we have George Stevens at 189cm & previously 101kg (looks like he's dropped a few kgs), while Knevitt is 193cm & could use a summer or two in the gym to become another option

Yeah, that’s fair. Bruhn and Parfitt aren’t ‘big bodies’ but they are genuine midfielders.

My point being we got spanked in the midfield and those two genuine midfielders (not stars but good) played in round 7 and not round 15.

Not suggesting they would have won the game alone, but add C. Guthrie (very good mid) and Stanley (a ruckman) and that adjusts the midfield equation considerably.


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[numbwombat]

I dunno, I think he's consistently one of the better performers in the 2s and he's been afl standard when played in the afl last year. He's not the answer because the question is inside mids not utility/wingers but I wouldn't be at all concerned with him playing the rest of the year out

I’ve only caught a couple of VFL games but when on the wing he looked at least to be the kind of winger who wins his own ball and a few clearances, not as purely a receiver as an Isaac Smith? So not the entire answer but potentially part of it. Surely close to next in line.