Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

[CHAWKTS]

Ok. so I have sprinkled my negative views in various responses to posts…and it would be depressing for me to summarise them in a single post… (others have done a good job)….

so I am going to focus (in this post only!) purely on the positives - ignoring any balance…!

1. Danger return was pretty good and showed signs that he could be back to his best over next couple of weeks
2. SDK frankly put in our best ruck showing of the year. (Ie. The gap in defeat was less). Older brother being a smart a… got Sam’s competitiveness back
3. Miers wasn’t perfect but was back
4. Dempsey has actually been a revelation. A few of us here were early adopters but I have been shocked at his development in 2024. He is in our best 5 players (I know there is a negative side to that but…!!). Has had 2 maybe 3 poor games but a handful of good to very good games and 3 frankly great games
5. Stewart showed signs of working through his tag. Not anywhere near his best but something to build on. If we get him and Danger back to best over next month it will make a HUGE difference
6. Jezza in forward 50 shows the impact he can have. If we had a clone I would (also) put him on the wing but without one he showed how great he is inside 50 (with limited opportunities) with the Occassion surprise sneaking up the ground
7. Clark is a beast and can get the ball (I know there is a balance to add but not in this post!!!)
8. Dempsey’s (I know second point - favourite!) link play and decision making is elite. He butchered two possessions yesterday but both were good decisions just shanks.
9. Holmes has also been a revelation. Speed is special and can’t be taught. Decision making improvement (it will come) will elevate him to top 10 player in the comp
10. Rohan is the perfect sub


Thought we all needed a “positive rant”. (No need to balance the points up - we have lots of other posts already - including mine - doing that!)


EDIT

11. VFL tomorrow is going to be fun. 17 AFL listed players all, a lot you would think, with some hope of pressing their case!

 

[terry_bright]

I think Mannagh absolutely has the ability to add creativity in midfield. He has the explosiveness and side step that our current brigade lack.

What you think and what he has shown are 2 completely different things.

This year he has shown he is a decent small forward. Hasn’t shown anything as a midfielder. That’s mostly down to the fact he hasn’t played midfield minutes in the VFL, but thinking he can come straight into the seniors and make a difference off the bat is fanciful.

Do I think he deserves more games in the seniors? Yes.
Will he help us win clearances and be a contested ball winner? No.

We are getting slaughtered and bashed up at the source and everything is falling apart from there. Defenders have lost confidence, the forward line is dysfunctional, and a small outside forward, on exposed form this year, isn’t going to make much of an impression.

Try him as a VFL midfielder by all means, but let’s see what some of our VFL mids can add (Stevens, Clohesy, Knevitt, Hardie, Conway) before throwing Mannagh in the deep end as an AFL midfielder.

 

[Larry Donohue]

You need to put Chook Constable in there

He would definitely improve the midfield of late
We'd actually have possession occasionally

 

[moruyatom]

Over the past 20yrs or so, we’ve been spoilt as cats fans. But I’ve never doubted our mighty team as much until now.
We seriously need some midfield grunt in the off season. Conway, Clark, and Bruhn are still most likely 2 seasons away from hitting their straps. I’m sure Mackie Wells and Co have some magic they are going to pull. One can only hope


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[CHAWKTS]

Agree, we are so early in our team development. Other teams who are contending are way ahead. And that’s fine, it’s the cycle of the life of a football team.

Anyone who wants us to win year after year is delusional or just plain greedy.

Yep.

In my mind I have clung on to wanting to “replicate Geelong” - ie. one year out of final max and contend every year…. And not do Hawks, Richmond, Brisbane, Carlton (from the 80s), Melbourne (from the 50s!!) and accept the long cycle…

We have done a pretty good job at replicating Geelong for a while now!!!

Failing that I am hoping we can replicate the Swans… and we need to not forget that they did have a cycle…

They had a few years out of the finals which looked like it could have turned into a long cycle… Warner was crap (ball use “not AFL standard”), Heany was inconsistent and wasted talent, best players were old (Hannaberry etc), Buddy irreplaceable (those young forwards no way could make it) - I could go on…

ok. So I admit that the academy giving them Goulden and others helps (!!) but they also got Grundy (was available to anyone) at right time and have developed those younger players alongside some “role players”…

I think spending 2 or 3 years getting top 10 picks, developing some great talent we have and snagging a couple of free agents who want the coastal lifestyle makes me think we could begin another 10 year plus cycle before the decade is out.

 

[Matthew Jelley]

Still feeling very flat after the loss
Glass half full we are still 8-6 but really need some things to turn around to have any chance over the next few weeks to get the season back on track or at least build towards the future
Humphries I am hearing a lot of hype about, would love to see him given a game
Dekoning in the ruck didn't sell me that he should be first ruck but perhaps he is the one to replace Hawkins for a time and be back up ruck to Conway?

 

[00VicWard001]

There needs to be some acceptance in the organisation that we're no longer looking at the short term.

The list management group needs to make the calls so the MC doesn't have to. They should have made many of them at the end of 23.

I'm strongly against any short turn top up. If Stengle leaves we should bank the pick.

Last year, Hawkins and his team, dead batting the potential trade to Melbourne was terrible. No doubt he and his management put the news out, the whole year we heard how the Cats and he were not close to a deal - and in the end, the list management team (Mackey) capitulated, and he and the club got the feel good story of breaking the record etc.

But to me, this whole situation reminds me of 2021, where the club was too respectful and trusting of the old brigade (Scarlett, Enright etc) and how they wanted to do it. often, personal relationships get in the way of making pragmatic decisions.

In the end, its fine to make mistakes about game plan, list management etc, that is perfectly normal.

But the club as a whole (management, coaches, players) need to remember that they are stewards of what the GFC should be. they are not the owners. To my eyes - Selwood, Tom Harley, Harry Taylor Chris Scott, Enright, Tom Stewart and even Dangerfield have figured this out. Other players, forget/forgot this and make ego-driven decisions (rightly or wrongly -as ego made them great players), and made it more about themselves and what they could get for themselves -whether it was financially, or holding onto their glory days, or aiming for records or one more premiership.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Over the past 20yrs or so, we’ve been spoilt as cats fans. But I’ve never doubted our mighty team as much until now.
We seriously need some midfield grunt in the off season. Conway, Clark, and Bruhn are still most likely 2 seasons away from hitting their straps. I’m sure Mackie Wells and Co have some magic they are going to pull. One can only hope


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Yep…agree…per my post about moving from trying to be Geelong to being Sydney…I think we are 2-3 seasons away and that probably should be our target? Replicating Geelong means we try and get back to top next year - which would be great - but I think high risk given as you say the core of our existing next group is 2-3 years away from the START of their peak…so I think we should look to add for that period rather than the immediate?

 

[standupand]

Great call. I suspect the MC knew exactly what would happen. For the first time in a long - I feel like SDK did not bow his head. He got mad and honestly, his brother needs to be thanked for going hard on him.

And I loved how they interacted in the end. Beautiful relationship. SDK is lucky that he has TDK to lean on and to talk to. TDK used to be a bit of a nothing forward and ruck and he figured it out. And SDK is literally a physical clone of his older brother. Once he figures out the mental stuff - he will become his own version of TDK and start dominating whatever position he plays.

Great points. The battle between the two brothers was the only real contest of any interest in a game that will go down as one the worst for our club in a long time.
It was fascinating to see the rivalry. Both these guys are big confidence players. Tom's was already up. Sam down. A clever idea by Scott to recognize the opportunity to make Sam realise that footy is no different sometimes than fighting it out in the backyard.
TDK I thought was overly aggressive early and lucky not to give frees away. But as a younger sibling myself, I can relate a bit to SDK's reaction. Some younger siblings have learnt to punch above their weight. Others want to earn a quieter respect. Sam worked his way back into it. And when Tom did give away a needless free kick, Sam nailed the set shot, immediately went back to centre and won a really effective hit out. At the time I thought this could be turning point for Sam's year.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Ok. So I did my positive post earlier…

But just noticed someone pointing out that we had 17 premiership players in our 23 last night…. (Mullin, Dempsey, Holmes - who would have been! - O Henry, Clark…anyone else not play in 2022?). Maybe we had 18. And 2 of those 5 “new ones” were in our best 5 players last night!!

That is a little depressing that we are that far off, 20 months after that same group dominated the competition with 16 wins in a row! I suppose that is the definition of a cliff. Quite amazing actuall

 

[Jumping Jack]

If Hawkins is a “navicular” as some are suspecting then I’m afraid we’ve seen the last of the big lad.

Sad way to go out but there’s no chance he’ll play again if true. Was a classic Achilles or Navicular. Seemingly innocuous at the time but given the way he pushed off and there was seemingly no impact then you’d think the Achilles, or certainly navicular where it’s just a load scenario pushing through to the foot.

Biggest giveaway for me is that it’s the same foot he had surgery on and missed most of last years pre season.

Foot injury - no impact - taking off on a lead - ends on crutches. I’m getting Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

vibes.


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[D BRIDGE]

He would definitely improve the midfield of late
We'd actually have possession occasionally

He was king of the "minus meters gained" game, but yeah he could get the pill.

 

[fpm84]

If Hawkins is a “navicular” as some are suspecting then I’m afraid we’ve seen the last of the big lad.

Sad way to go out but there’s no chance he’ll play again if true. Was a classic Achilles or Navicular. Seemingly innocuous at the time but given the way he pushed off and there was seemingly no impact then you’d think the Achilles, or certainly navicular where it’s just a load scenario pushing through to the foot.

Biggest giveaway for me is that it’s the same foot he had surgery on and missed most of last years pre season.

Foot injury - no impact - taking off on a lead - ends on crutches. I’m getting Jack Henry vibes.


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Is it possible to do a navicular injury with no contact? I’ve always associated it with a player getting their foot stood on / force applied to it a la Matt Egan.

 

[D BRIDGE]

If Hawkins is a “navicular” as some are suspecting then I’m afraid we’ve seen the last of the big lad.

Sad way to go out but there’s no chance he’ll play again if true. Was a classic Achilles or Navicular. Seemingly innocuous at the time but given the way he pushed off and there was seemingly no impact then you’d think the Achilles, or certainly navicular where it’s just a load scenario pushing through to the foot.

Biggest giveaway for me is that it’s the same foot he had surgery on and missed most of last years pre season.

Foot injury - no impact - taking off on a lead - ends on crutches. I’m getting Jack Henry vibes.

It'll be a damn shame if he falls 4 goals short of 800... which it very much looks like happening.

 

[Cosmic Energy]

If Hawkins is a “navicular” as some are suspecting then I’m afraid we’ve seen the last of the big lad.

Sad way to go out but there’s no chance he’ll play again if true. Was a classic Achilles or Navicular. Seemingly innocuous at the time but given the way he pushed off and there was seemingly no impact then you’d think the Achilles, or certainly navicular where it’s just a load scenario pushing through to the foot.

Biggest giveaway for me is that it’s the same foot he had surgery on and missed most of last years pre season.

Foot injury - no impact - taking off on a lead - ends on crutches. I’m getting Jack Henry vibes.


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That would be a shame. I’ve also heard he’s been carrying a toe injury for a while, which might explain his movement drop off since his lively start to the year. Not sure we get the GPS numbers anymore but he used to cover some serious KMs pushing up and back. That would also suck to hear, he’s been copping a lot of heat from everywhere about hanging them up, if he’s been playing under duress then you have to wonder what the point has been.

 

[D BRIDGE]

That is a little depressing that we are that far off, 20 months after that same group dominated the competition with 16 wins in a row! I suppose that is the definition of a cliff. Quite amazing actuall

The cliff had to come at some stage.

Lots of people here just are so accustomed to us finding a way... but with that list age demographic, it was bound to happen.

I'm for one insanely happy we snagged that 2022 flag before the ass fell out of it... which is happening now.

I called for tanking (which for me means prioritising the future over the season, not actually trying to lose) halfway through last year when we weren't in the 8, but still a mathematical chance.

Almost everyone on here didn't want a bar of it and still believed "if" we could get on a roll, we'd still be a chance... Fair enough.

But this year is different... we are still in the 8 but and better placed than last year, but I think people see it now.

The older guys are toast, the kids aren't ready to carry us and there's very little in the middle.

I'm worried CS will pull the same tripe he pulled last year and keep going to the well right up to the end of the year.

Last year It was obvious we were making up the numbers... and we only pulled back in the last round of the year.

I really hope we get 4 or 5 games full into guys like Humphries, Clohesy, Knevitt and even COS.

Dempsey was dominating the VFL last year and we only brought him back into the side in R23 from memory.

Play the kids now... even though we are in the 8... you gotta know where you are at and stop trying to fool yourself CS.

We can't just bang them all in at once... but get a couple more in, we are losing anyway.

I'm happy losing... If we are playing the future.

 

[feelinfeline]

The cliff had to come at some stage.

Lots of people here just are so accustomed to us finding a way... but with that list age demographic, it was bound to happen.

I'm for one insanely happy we snagged that 2022 flag before the ass fell out of it... which is happening now.

I called for tanking (which for me means prioritising the future over the season, not actually trying to lose) halfway through last year when we weren't in the 8, but still a mathematical chance.

Almost everyone on here didn't want a bar of it and still believed "if" we could get on a roll, we'd still be a chance... Fair enough.

But this year is different... we are still in the 8 but and better placed than last year, but I think people see it now.

The older guys are toast, the kids aren't ready to carry us and there's very little in the middle.

I'm worried CS will pull the same tripe he pulled last year and keep going to the well right up to the end of the year.

Last year It was obvious we were making up the numbers... and we only pulled back in the last round of the year.

I really hope we get 4 or 5 games full into guys like Humphries, Clohesy, Knevitt and even COS.

Dempsey was dominating the VFL last year and we only brought him back into the side in R23 from memory.

Play the kids now... even though we are in the 8... you gotta know where you are at and stop trying to fool yourself CS.

We can't just bang them all in at once... but get a couple more in, we are losing anyway.

I'm happy losing... If we are playing the future.

This is a real test for Scott and the MC. They eventually dropped Dahlhaus and Higgins two years ago but arguably played them way longer than they needed to. But they were outsiders. Are they prepared to drop club legends and premiership players? Bews is one they’ve bitten the bullet on, but there have to be others.

Ultimately I’m beyond caring if they call it ‘managed’ or not, but they have to start rewarding well-performing VFL players games, and multiple games, at the expense of under-performing senior players.

 

[Jumping Jack]

Is it possible to do a navicular injury with no contact? I’ve always associated it with a player getting their foot stood on / force applied to it a la Matt Egan.

Yep. Did it myself.

If not detected early (via a scan) it can get to a point where enough load can just compromise the bone and joint. So yes, it can happen in a simple jump and land scenario - or as simple as just taking off on a lead and enough pressure will just break or fracture the bone.

Fingers crossed.


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[cats_09]

I think Bews is just cooked though. In the vfl he pops up here and there. I was meaning we're missing 2022 Bews not so much 2024 Bews. Another answer in not sure we have

Reading FB there's a few who every week question where is Bews & why isn't he being selected - trying to explain that he's been out of form & injured seems a confusing response to some

I haven't seen his name mentioned once in the VFL bests and that's telling

I'm a fan of what Bews has bought over the years, but the decline was obvious last year and it doesn't sound like things have turned around for him this year - I think we also have more issues than just who's the best small defender on the list, and really need to look at who's going to be the best small defender option for not necessarily this year but 2025 & beyond

And I know we all like to think of all players in the squad as being potential A-graders and seemingly their careers may never end, but reading suggestions that if we don't play Bews this season he'll end up on another list next year, does seem a little out of reality

 

[catters_28]

Probably because he’s kicked 21 goals from 13 games.

Menzel kicked 38 goals in 17 games and was dropped for the 2017 QF. My question still remains. Why was Menzel dropped for not offering enough defensively but Ollie keeps his spot?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

His direct opponent was best on ground

And as Bucks said post-game SDK was in the top 5 rated players for the game.
Just because his brother was very good doesn't mean Sam was shit.

 

[strauchnyy]

And I agree with you 100% . But the unfortunate thing is the Match Committee dont do this.
Knevitt
Mannagh
Hardie
Clohesy
Humphries

Have all deserved there chances this year, but once again the match committee still never picks them

Agree apart for knevitt. He is mikes off and not afl standard.

Humphries, Mannagh and Clohesy need a chance

 

[callmeX]

Given the expanding nature of the league, and the dangers with recruiting, tanking to rebuild means supporters dont see success for 5-8 years. Getting pick 1, 20, and 40 for 3 years means a rebuild will take too long for die hards.
The league is a mess.
The father son / academy rules are a joke, and hurts developing clubs.

This eason has shown that without our starting mids we are exposed. Take out crips and walsh from Carlton, and they would have their issues.

For me, we simply dont overpay for Stengle. He cant run through the midfield, and doesnt impose himself on the game. There is a certain small forward at Sydney who has the x factor, which Stengle doesnt. He is a good player, but not elite.

The umpires simply suck.
The decision to penalise Stewart a 50 is a joke. Does the AFL penalize every player who oversteps a mark - NO. If they do, then no umpire should call players back on the mark, they should simply pay a 50. JOKE AFL.
The media thought it was funny to throw a football at another player, it not its just bullshit. Time for the AFL to eradicate the bullying and rubbish tough guy shit. I thought the blues were all about respect. That act is not respectful.
The constant pushing into Sam by his brother with eyes on his brother and not the ball, was a joke. Pay the free, and move on. Fake tough guy shit. JOKE AFL.
For all the youth bananas on this forum, you are the same people complaining about Jhye's impact. The reason players like Dempsey have as much impact is the base they built in the twos.

The biggest issue Geelong has is that they paid for Free Agents. No other team has, sans rubbish round four picks. The loss of picks for Cameron and Danger are cumulative and hurt over a period of time. Yes they have been great players, but meant we didnt get the free hit ala Richmond and Melbourne. Let alone dropping a first round pick for Henderson.

We also need to acknowledge our first pick failures are now hurting as well. Holmes has been the best first round pick, but other are very questionable. A team lacking genuine big mids selected a few injured mids and that failed. And for me Jhye is simply too little for the position we selected him. He lack the tenacity of a Libba and doesnt have the penetration.

The season will mean we finish 6-12 and thats a good effort with our current list. It was exciting at the start, but injuries hurt.

I Danger gets suspended it a charade. Walsh should have had a proper test, as he felt the urge to headbutt the ground.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ollie Henry was another who is a concern. One trick pony. If he doesn’t mark the ball he provides sfa in defensive pressure.

He's a 'good team' player. A fully functioning team and Henry is a handful.
Constantly playing from the back half and he's not involved. Fix the midfield and we'll fix Henry.

 

[cats_09]

Why would they request trades? 4 of your 5 are likely in the Rd 1 team next year. The other will get delisted and won't be picked up elsewhere

And that's the other aspect I'd look to factor in

Hardie turns 27 in a couple of months, yet to break into the playing 23 even as sub and one can rightly question if he's seen as part of that midfield rotation if we look beyond this year - the right age to be a core in any teams midfield but maybe not the right fit for ours

So while he may get a game or two at some stage, I'd ask if we'd be better off using those opportunities instead for players like Clohesy, Knevitt or Stevens and get senior games into them - they seem more likely to be part of the future of the club