Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

[CHAWKTS]

We look burnt out.

Look very exhausted after looking so fit early.
Maybe the fitness staff got it horribly wrong.

That last quarter was embarrassing. Touhy giving up a chase and letting an opponent just stroll into goal.

I think more likely that you can’t have 2E, Duncan Hawkins Rohan blitz all in the same size. It opens up split second gaps for good teams and makes us look slow

 

[catsfootyfan89]

Damn, it's really feeling like the golden age at the Cattery has come to an end. Bummer...

 

[Scottland2007]

Drop every Irishman

I don’t get this. 2E with the first goal in a game where we desperately needed more of them. I thought he’s been good this year. That non mark against Cameron absolutely killed the momentum that we had. Feels like we’ve played against 22 on the field since Scotty’s comments

 

[thejester]

Atkins had 42 pressure acts tonight which was 10 more than any of the other 45 guys out there.
When we are struggling to apply pressure he will keep getting picked for that reason.

That said hes a very limited player who wont be part of our next contending side (thats ok) and he should be about the 6th best mid in a good side. When atkins is in your top 3 mids you know your midfield is too thin which our issue.

That said while he wont go out
For me its very clear cut that mannagh and knevitt must come in for at least 2 of our current mids and fwds.
The other decisions such as what to do with sdk, whether to replace hawkins with neale or a smaller setup, conway and the rucks, etc are less clear cut but knevitt showed this promise last year and has been our best developing vfl player this year and should be in. And mannagh has clearly done all he can in the vfl and we will need to play him or trade him so now is time to find out. Those 2 are clear cut to me.

Atkins having 42 pressure acts only brings to mind Fred’s old line about pressure acts being the measure of players who can’t do anything else. He had two touches at quarter time - a handball and the free kick he got from being whacked after the handball. Tbf two more than MOC and Mullins.

 

[Scottland2007]

Career ending injury is nothing to be happy about
Disgusting comment

My prediction. Tom will return for one last game and be parked in the goal square until he kicks 4.

 

[Scottland2007]

Really? I just looked up Jhye Clark draft profile and found the following:

"Geelong would also be recruiting a prospect seen as a clone of retired Cats champion Joel Selwood, with Clark levelling the four-time premiership great's own development as a leading name at the draft for his leadership qualities and impact on the game."

But no, he's never been hailed as the next Selwood. Just a clone of.

He’s not the greatest player ever. He’s just a tribute.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Scott is doing well with the cattle I agree, but there are a couple of aspects of the game plan/execution that have irked me for a while.


1. Ball in dispute on wings, we don't get enough to contest. We either have players controlling the corridor, or cheating ahead of the ball. I don't think this is working well.

2. This is the bad one. Our method going into F50 invariably involves the forwards wanting to get the ball while running towards goal, playing behind their opponent. It is great when it works because goals are then much easier to kick. But it often doesn't work because:

a) It requires a longer kick than the ball carrier is sometimes capable of.

b) In trying to get a long kick in, the ball carrier often takes longer to settle and gets themselves in trouble.

c) Worst of all, with the ball in flight longer (often higher too) it just makes it easy for team defence to kill.

d) Not hitting up the short target takes away the opportunity for overlap. Leading towards the ball carrier creates space behind you that a quick overlap handpass/kick can exploit.

I really wish we would fix this. We have several good leading marking forwards, yet instead of using them we always go for pagans paddock goals.

This is a good observation.

The pre-season reports were that we were working on the running capacity sprint sessions and fewer sessions over all so that we could play a back half rebound and effectively flood back and Joe the goose everyone on the rebound. Was apparently a Rahilly brain child I think.

Makes sense we'd be struggling to move away from that model if that's what we did all pre-season

 

[Lana]

Atkins having 42 pressure acts only brings to mind Fred’s old line about pressure acts being the measure of players who can’t do anything else. He had two touches at quarter time - a handball and the free kick he got from being whacked after the handball. Tbf two more than MOC and Mullins.

You get a pressure act when you’re 2nd to the ball

 

[catters05]

What's the deal with Blicavs?

He was so key for us in 2022., particularly with Stanley as well, playing that marking tall a kick behind play.

I struggle to see what he brings to the table now.

Such a big turnaround

Age and time probably caught up with him. Decision making poor as well, that bomb into 50 to all the Carlton players…..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You get a pressure act when you’re 2nd to the ball

To be honest, being second to the ball is better than half of the other efforts out there

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Need an honest discussion between the players, and the players / coaching group, like that which created ' Kennett's curse'

Honesty always wins.

The strategy under Tom Harley, called something like leading teams, where every player was accountable + open, frank discussion occurred.

Expansion of the leadership group, only Danger + Stewart atm. Include younger players with leadership qualities. Also, players from each position.

With out of form players + younger guys joining the team, cohesion is lost. I think playing as a cohesive team hugely contributed to our 2022 success.

It's a time of transition + supporters should lower expectations. I believe the Club will do everything possible to ensure we remain competitive, but not necessarily in the Top 8. Doubt we'll experience the collapse of North, Richmond, Hawthorn + other formerly successful teams. As many have said this year, it's such an even competition. Only time will reveal our future for the next few years. The strength of our VFL players offers hope.

 

[Lana]

I agree in principle, but we ain't had a great first round pick besides Holmes ( with any longevity) since 06. A lot of misses. Clark TBD. Are we better at trading our R1s?

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This is a discussion that requires graphs and probability distributions. Statistically there wasn’t anything wrong with how we drafted. The results being a function of our first round picks being later due to our success, there being less opportunity for growth due our success, us trading down/out of the first round to maintain the short term.

The draft v trade decision (ignoring the wage premium) is about adjusting the timing of a peak and an increase certainty in a level of return, lower development costs in exchange for a lower upper bound of the return and a lower upper bound of career duration.

On average you get a lower dud rate but cut off the change to get a superstar. You get the value sooner in cost for later. Think Josh Caddy.

There are exceptions when are trading for someone who is already a superstar in which it is a no brainer there isn’t enough draft capital available to trade to over pay (unless you have a top 3ish pick)

But clubs can’t rely on a peak Dangerfield falling in their laps. For their list build strategy

 

[Warhorse]

Very much so
20 disposals
20 hit outs

Showed he can actually play the position

His direct opponent was best on ground

Atkins having 42 pressure acts only brings to mind Fred’s old line about pressure acts being the measure of players who can’t do anything else. He had two touches at quarter time - a handball and the free kick he got from being whacked after the handball. Tbf two more than MOC and Mullins.

His opponent nearly had as many touches as Atkins had pressure acts.

 

[Lana]

To be honest, being second to the ball is better than half of the other efforts out there

He has the inherent advantage as an inside mid that the ball resets next to him. The flow on effect of not winning a competitive amount on inside is that our guys away from the contest have to work a lot harder to close down the space then they otherwise would

 

[catters05]

Apart from being comprehensively annihilated by a far better side

I think Geel over possess the ball , when the Cats got thumped in the 2010 PF Cam Mooney said in the review that was their no 1 problem back then and they addressed that in 2011 , and i reckon they need to right now

Kolo does the little short pass straight to a Carlton bloke , goal . Start of last qtr Holmes does a ridiclous short pass , Geel lose the ball , then gives away a 50 metre penalty , another Carlton goal

Miers when he does quite a few passes , with that running out to the right and kicking accross his body , the ball can go anywhere

Dempsey played well , but again his short pass in the 3rd qtr , went about 6 metres - play on , Geel lose the ball again

Carlton were seriously impressive with their skill level and std of play and could have won by 15 goals , only reservation is the opposition was pathetic

Also, I hate how most of the time our players don’t lead towards the ball, no wonder the rubbish bombing is all we do. Stop running away from the kicker cats.

 

[Hinkley29]

Is it though?

Yes

 

[foxdog50]

Reward some VFL lads.

Won’t play finals, currently a bottom 2 team and have consistently performed like one for over 2 months, major issues everywhere.

And I agree with you 100% . But the unfortunate thing is the Match Committee dont do this.
Knevitt
Mannagh
Hardie
Clohesy
Humphries

Have all deserved there chances this year, but once again the match committee still never picks them

 

[tommy2011]

They would have to be better numbers then any of Blitz, Conway or Rhys have thrown up.
I'd be happy to roll with SDK in the ruck, Neale as back up and either Blitz or COS into defence.
If SDK can turn from Golden Retriever to street dog mongrel and add 5kg, he could be a weapon.
Feel like Conway to fragile and will take a year at least to harden up.

We may as well make some changes and see what we have. Mannagh, Hardie must come in. If we slide so be it.



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Everyone seems to agree with the line that Tom monstered Sam in the ruck. Well, on several occasions he monstered him illegally. No free though. I mean, it was Carlton.

 

[tommy2011]

This is a good observation.

The pre-season reports were that we were working on the running capacity sprint sessions and fewer sessions over all so that we could play a back half rebound and effectively flood back and Joe the goose everyone on the rebound. Was apparently a Rahilly brain child I think.

Makes sense we'd be struggling to move away from that model if that's what we did all pre-season

Scott's picking the cattle. No get out of jail free card for him.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Scott's picking the cattle. No get out of jail free card for him.

The game style we trained for isn't working and no team selection in my opinion is changing that. It's not a get out of jail free card but if you're potting Scott it's just because in general accountability flows up and he is backing his team

 

[foxdog50]

Yes Mullin is young and raw.. And yes his played a couple of OK games.
BUT how has he deserved his chances to play AFL in front of many players who are ahead of him eg Knevitt, Hardie Clohesy Humphries etc etc. And we can't say his a defender and them guys except for Humphries is a defender. He looks lost out there and we are playing like a man short when his there! He needs to play all year in the VFL to still understand the game

 

[kcattatac]

And I agree with you 100% . But the unfortunate thing is the Match Committee dont do this.
Knevitt
Mannagh
Hardie
Clohesy
Humphries

Have all deserved there chances this year, but once again the match committee still never picks them

They all need to request trades if not played very soon

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yes Mullin is young and raw.. And yes his played a couple of OK games.
BUT how has he deserved his chances to play AFL in front of many players who are ahead of him eg Knevitt, Hardie Clohesy Humphries etc etc. And we can't say his a defender and them guys except for Humphries is a defender. He looks lost out there and we are playing like a man short when his there! He needs to play all year in the VFL to still understand the game

I am obviously a big fan of Humphries but he's not physically strong enough for afl duty yet. Outside that you didn't name a defender.

The real missing player here is Bews

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They all need to request trades if not played very soon

Why would they request trades? 4 of your 5 are likely in the Rd 1 team next year. The other will get delisted and won't be picked up elsewhere

 

[year of the cat]

I don’t get this. 2E with the first goal in a game where we desperately needed more of them. I thought he’s been good this year. That non mark against Cameron absolutely killed the momentum that we had. Feels like we’ve played against 22 on the field since Scotty’s comments

The sum of his game was poor. Caught a lot with the footy, poor skill errors (wasn’t on his Pat there granted), woeful defensive actions, and poor, rushed decision making. He’s been a terrific player for us but he’s done. Along with a few others. Time to get games into some of the in form kids in front of the likes of Tuohy.