GC & Carlton Given Priority Access to State League Players

[Dave]

...

Probably not really somewhere you want to go in here, mate.

Yeah, this isn't the carlton board, "mate". I'll post what I like.

 

[Strange Cat]

It's a sign it is broken, how long were those teams so bloody bad for? And they rebuilt under the old system anyway so that's irrelevant, most of their players came in at a time when it was a 16 team system with priority picks and prior to free agency when the system was actually balanced.

Carlton have not played finals since 2013 and have been terrible ever since, they haven't finished above 8 since 2011. They have mostly been very bottom.

Carlton are paying the price for mistakes made since the John Elliott era. That does not mean they should not have a chance to rebuild in an adequate time frame.

Just as any other club such as Essendon etc who have paid the price for mistakes.

Brisbane, as I said are a long LONG time very bottom side and winning 5 games this season, despite that being an improvement is by no means a positive example to follow. Brisbane received a priority pick for what it's worth.

You're using a team that has been bottom of the ladder for 10 years and just had a 5 win season as an example of the system being fine. You're using two teams who built a lot of their list under the old system and won flags as an example. Think about this. You're using teams who have been without success for decades as an example of a supposedly working equalisation system... Think about that for a moment.

If you're down and really down, for some reason the AFL want you to stay there and that is they system that they have in place.

The AFL haven’t caused you to be this bad , you have done it yourselves with poor recruiting and poor player development.

Don’t pass the buck

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Blaming Jack Elliot...lol

Essendon went through far worse and have managed to dust themselves off and get back to work.

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah, this isn't the carlton board, "mate". I'll post what I like.

Sure, just this thread isn't really the place for us to discuss how you came last in 2016 because of the player suspensions restricting your selection to state leaguers and kids, making there a clear line of correlation between that pick 1 and your illegal drug programme.

You want to do that here? Fine by me.

 

[Triniboy]

Thats rubbish. Its just Carltons turn and due to the Malthouse disaster of their own making they will have to wait a bit longer. Blaming their situation on Elliott is ridiculous....it was 17 seasons ago. The only genuine problem that the AFL has right now is the Gold Coast Suns and that is a far greater issue than just giving them a PP .

The competition is as even as it has ever been, as seven different Grand Finallists in the past four years attests.

Totally agree with you “Malthouse disaster”, we are where we are now because of that decision.
AFL continue p——ng revenue on GCS, 17 clubs would welcome those $’s

 

[gbatman]

The AFL haven’t caused you to be this bad , you have done it yourselves with poor recruiting and poor player development.

Don’t pass the buck

So what's your point?

 

[Gethelred]

If you cant agree that the Dogs and Tigers winning the premiership isnt a sign that the system isnt broken then theres nothing I can do for you. The Saints have also been desperately unlucky twice and the Dockers have played in their first Grand Final recently.

Carlton have been a very bottom club for only four years and have played finals in the 7-10 year time zone mentioned. Paying the price for mistakes made under the Malthouse era and now rebuilding.

Gold Coast are a different story and as I said all they need to do is look 20 kms north to see how some decent culture and a good coach can lead to the first level of success, which is player development leading to player retention. Their problems are far greater than what a priority pick can provide.

The issue with what you're saying is that for you to be correct you cannot look further back than 2 seasons, because if you did you would see a 15 years dominated more or less by 2-3 clubs, with Collingwood thrown in for good measure.

The new landscape could indeed be different, but we don't have enough evidence to argue that yet. Two seasons alone doesn't count.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The issue with what you're saying is that for you to be correct you cannot look further back than 2 seasons, because if you did you would see a 15 years dominated more or less by 2-3 clubs, with Collingwood thrown in for good measure.

The new landscape could indeed be different, but we don't have enough evidence to argue that yet. Two seasons alone doesn't count.

I was looking back four seasons. Seven different Grand Finallists. Roughly the same time frame since Carlton last made finals.

How many teams won premierships between 1967 and 1989?

Competition has never been more even. Sure, good teams can still stay at the top for a while if they are well run but its very difficult to do it in perpetuity.

 

[Gethelred]

How many teams won premierships between 1967 and 1989?

Competition has never been more even. Sure, good teams can still stay at the top for a while if they are well run but its very difficult to do it in perpetuity.

5, but we aren't arguing about 22 years a good 30 years ago, are we? That's history, and irrelevant.

I'm not disagreeing with you, exactly. What I'm saying is, you could very well be right, but there's not enough evidence to suggest it yet.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Completely defeats the purpose if they can just trade him straight away

A Clayton's PP. AFL give them a potential PP without it affecting the draft picks of the other clubs.

 

[gbatman]

Thats rubbish. Its just Carltons turn and due to the Malthouse disaster of their own making they will have to wait a bit longer. Blaming their situation on Elliott is ridiculous....it was 17 seasons ago. The only genuine problem that the AFL has right now is the Gold Coast Suns and that is a far greater issue than just giving them a PP. Carlton will get their own house in order.

The competition is as even as it has ever been, as seven different Grand Finallists in the past four years attests.

Was stuff all to do with Malthouse, he was just there when shit went wrong. The reason bottom clubs are bottom clubs is 100% irrelevant. Why Carlton are down the bottom is irrelevant.

The problem is not with the top of the ladder, the top half are going fine and half of those teams are staying there. It's the bottom half who are going through significant rebuilds, that's the issue.

Elliott stuffed the club up and left the club with a bad culture, that's partially why guys like Brett Ratten never had a hope, the club didn't have the money to employ a good off field team and that strong leadership group was dismantled when the club was trying to rebuild way back then. That had repercussions that followed through all through to Malthouse being there. The older blokes who were there were a big part of why Carlton was mediocre because they didn't have positive leadership qualities.

The AFL have the Brisbane Lions who have mostly been a very bottom club for a decade. Carlton who have not finished above 8 since 2011. GCS who have and will get absolutely raided because of many things including free agency but also poor recruiting, management and other decisions. Melbourne not making finals for far too long prior to this season. St Kilda who have been down the ladder for a very long time now. Apart from Melbourne who have just got back up after eons, these other clubs look to have plenty of time ahead of them down the bottom. You have to wonder how long Fremantle and The Western Bulldogs have outside the 8 before they are any threat under this current system because if I was them I wouldn't be as buoyant, even if they are doing a good job the job has never been more difficult and there has never been less resources.

Why is it taking so long for these teams? Well the simple answer is resources. You can't say that having no priority pics, no preseason draft, having the picks spread further apart (Round 2, 3 and 4 picks are worth a lot less then they used to be), having significantly less quality in the state leagues and having to contend with free agency is not having a significant effect on the rebuilding clubs. To suggest that is just burying your head up your ****.

The rebuilding timeframe is probably 1-3 years longer than it was prior to the new franchises and PP abolishment. Hate to ruin arguments with facts but if people don't see this as an issue than you have no interest in sustainability or equalisation of the competition.

The only chance the competition has of evening out is if bottom clubs are able to use salary dumps and structure their player payments so that they can open their salary cup right up with the intention of buying in free agents and trades. This will encourage clubs to clean out their list, bottom out and bring in a heap of salary dump types which is not what they AFL really want and what Carlton have done. Not sure the AFL want to see teams cleaning out and becoming so weak but IMO it's the only way bottom clubs can access free agency and the only way they can rebuild and balance things up. Unless of course the AFL would like to shift the total player payments from 95% to 90% so bottom sides don't have to clean out so much to access free agency because lets face it. With the current system, top free agents will only go to bottom sides for money.

The fact that the AFL have given something to Carlton and GCS is an acknowledgement that their system is failing. The fact that it's a nothing offer just goes to show that the AFL are weakly lead and crumble under pressure.

If the AFL are not going to hand our priority picks. The perhaps they should let bottom clubs bottom out and be able to load up and go hard for free agents. Lets say after two years in the bottom 4, you only have to pay 85% of your salary cap until you make the top 10. IMO that would go some way to equalising they system. That would give the struggling clubs around 1.2M which is about the worth of an elite AFL player.

 

[Strange Cat]

So what's your point?

That you’re trying to blame the AFL instead of acknowledging that your club has created this mess.

All clubs have poor periods and find themselves in better postitions with hard work and acknowledging what they are doing wrong.

Expecting the AFL to help you out because your club is clueless on what needs to be done is a very poor mentality.

 

[Dave]

Sure, just this thread isn't really the place for us to discuss how you came last in 2016

The don't discuss it. If your fellow carlton supporters are going to raise it to sook about it I'm happy to laugh at them. You do what you like.

 

[Jonno94]

Carlton fans in this thread are like little children that got vanilla ice cream when they wanted chocolate ice cream. But they shouldn't any gotten any ice cream in the first place.

The evidence clearly suggests there's plenty of AFL quality in state leagues, the fact Carlton/GC can also trade these players before the draft is another advantage.

 

[gbatman]

That you’re trying to blame the AFL instead of acknowledging that your club has created this mess.

I fully acknowledge that the club has created this mess. Bottom clubs are bottom clubs are mostly their from their own doing, I don't see how that's relevant.

The AFL are the ones who have overseen a system that has degraded gradually over the last decade to remove resources from rebuilding clubs and significant resources at that. Not only this but it has also given extra resources to top clubs at the same time.

Why are you suggesting that a reason a club is down the bottom has something to do with the fact that they should not be properly resourced and given the opportunity to climb back up in an acceptable time frame?

To me that makes no sense at all.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Frawley, it wasn't officially but it was one none the less.

Oh ok, I thought you actually had evidence that Melbourne were gifted a priority pick under the AFL's new rules, but it seems you were just talking out your arse. I should've known

 

[Jonno94]

Btw Mitch McGovern was a mature aged recruit from the WAFL, so I guess he sucks now and Carlton shouldn't trade a first rounder for him.

 

[LordLucifer]

Carlton fans in this thread are like little children that got vanilla ice cream when they wanted chocolate ice cream. But they shouldn't any gotten any ice cream in the first place.

The evidence clearly suggests there's plenty of AFL quality in state leagues, the fact Carlton/GC can also trade these players before the draft is another advantage.

I don't want to get into the "squealing over ice-cream" scenario as it is boring the bejesus out of me but that second sentence of yours is just plain wrong.

If there is so much 'AFL quality' in the state leagues, why isn't there more being drafted each year ??

There are some very good players in the state leagues but not many of them are good enough to graduate to the AFL. We have Nick Graham at our club, BOG every time he plays in the VFL but when he gets promoted to the seniors, he is a liability, the difference in standard is that stark.

Because Geelong hit pay-dirt with Tim Kelly, there is this weird belief all of a sudden that there is an untapped goldmine just waiting for the chance to make it in the AFL. Sadly, the truth of the matter is that for every Tim Kelly you find, there are another 200 players who are not going to make it.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

premiership coaches don't count as priority picks so you're technically correct

Go and offer Roos $2m a year and he'll take over for 3 years and get your club on track. No-ones preventing the Blues from doing this.

But hey, keep banging your head against the wall and spouting conspiracy theories about other clubs, that'll fix the Blues.

 

[LordLucifer]

Go and offer Roos $2m a year and he'll take over for 3 years and get your club on track. No-ones preventing the Blues from doing this.

But hey, keep banging your head against the wall and spouting conspiracy theories about other clubs, that'll fix the Blues.

Go and get Roos ??

You are just being silly now for the sake of it.

 

[PP34]

I don't want to get into the "squealing over ice-cream" scenario as it is boring the bejesus out of me but that second sentence of yours is just plain wrong.

If there is so much 'AFL quality' in the state leagues, why isn't there more being drafted each year ??

There are some very good players in the state leagues but not many of them are good enough to graduate to the AFL. We have Nick Graham at our club, BOG every time he plays in the VFL but when he gets promoted to the seniors, he is a liability, the difference in standard is that stark.

Because Geelong hit pay-dirt with Tim Kelly, there is this weird belief all of a sudden that there is an untapped goldmine just waiting for the chance to make it in the AFL. Sadly, the truth of the matter is that for every Tim Kelly you find, there are another 200 players who are not going to make it.

It’s pathetic how selective posters like that are.

Just blatantly ignore all the duds that don’t work and point to rare exceptions like Kelly like there’s dozens of similar players.

 

[Gethelred]

The don't discuss it. If your fellow carlton supporters are going to raise it to sook about it I'm happy to laugh at them. You do what you like.

Well edited, but I suppose that's fair.

 

[JackFlash]

Is Mitch Grigg worth another chance? He is 26 in January, has won the past two Magarey medals in the SANFL and just kicked six goals in a best on ground effort in a losing Grand Final side!

 

[LordLucifer]

Is Mitch Grigg worth another chance? He is 26 in January, has won the past two Magarey medals in the SANFL and just kicked six goals in a best on ground effort in a losing Grand Final side!

I read a number of comments on the Crows board about Mitch Grigg and if they are anything to go by (and most of them would have seen way more of him this year in the SANFL than the average footy follower), then he is destined to stay in the SANFL.

 

[Jonno94]

It’s pathetic how selective posters like that are.

Just blatantly ignore all the duds that don’t work and point to rare exceptions like Kelly like there’s dozens of similar players.

You're getting 2 FREE hits to get it right. These players can also be ONTRADED before the draft, they don't need to work out for Carlton.

So Carlton pickup 2 state league players. Lets say Geelong rates mature aged player 1 at pick 30 in the national draft and Hawthorn rates number 2 at pick 40. They both get traded and now Carlton has pick 30 and 40 in the national draft for free to use on 18 year olds.