Club Focus Geelong 2024

[Ticky009]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That's the entire point.

The point is that our list has two stars and everyone else is either over the hill, good-average footballers, or kids

 

[Footy Smarts]

Don't get where the salary cap questions are coming from besides Jezza is any other Cat in the top 50 paid players in the afl?

Don't use logic. You're supposed to claim we've got a list of spuds that's going off a cliff one day then say there's no way we're under the salary cap the next.

 

[My Tilly]

Don't get where the salary cap questions are coming from besides Jezza is any other Cat in the top 50 paid players in the afl?

I think it has a bit more to do with the way in which Geelong have remained a challenger. Not many had us making the finals this year so having been within a bees dick of making the grand final, opposition fans are bewildered as to how players like Bailey Smith (possibly Clayton Oliver) can be added to the list.

Geelong has been fairly quiet in recent draft years. They have also been turning over the list during this time. There is a lot of room to move salary cap-wise as we seldom commit to long-term contracts. Tyson Stengle was awarded a 5 year contract extension but within reason, reportedly 700k per season.

 

[SSSSSS]

Don't get where the salary cap questions are coming from besides Jezza is any other Cat in the top 50 paid players in the afl?

Holmes signed a big deal. He'd be on a good chunk of change next year. Probably close to 7 figures considering some of the offers he received earlier on in the year. Stengle would also be on good coin but probably unders compared to what he could have earned.

Baz and Clarry would both be coming over for 7 figures each.

Hawkins retiring won't clear up that much space considering he was playing for 'peanuts' (all the while wifey is/was on Cotton On's payroll). I would doubt Touhy would have been on much.

I'm sure plenty of their players like Stewart, Guthrie, Miers etc would be playing for well unders compared to what they would be worth on the open market.

Like all clubs they will leverage their sponsors to have their players looked after. Some clubs just do it better than others or have a few more levers to pull.

There are a few Hawk boys that get some good deals on the Nissans as would the Geelong boys driving brand spanking new Fords every year.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Holmes signed a big deal. He'd be on a good chunk of change next year. Probably close to 7 figures considering some of the offers he received earlier on in the year. Stengle would also be on good coin but probably unders compared to what he could have earned.

Baz and Clarry would both be coming over for 7 figures each.

Hawkins retiring won't clear up that much space considering he was playing for 'peanuts' (all the while wifey is/was on Cotton On's payroll). I would doubt Touhy would have been on much.

I'm sure plenty of their players like Stewart, Guthrie, Miers etc would be playing for well unders compared to what they would be worth on the open market.

Like all clubs they will leverage their sponsors to have their players looked after. Some clubs just do it better than others or have a few more levers to pull.

There are a few Hawk boys that get some good deals on the Nissans as would the Geelong boys driving brand spanking new Fords every year.

You can google the reports on the contracts signed. You'll find the only one mentioned in your post with $1m anywhere near their name is Oliver.

 

[SSSSSS]

You can google the reports on the contracts signed. You'll find the only one mentioned in your post with $1m anywhere near their name is Oliver.

Baz had two very similar offers from Hawthorn, Collingwood and Geelong earlier in the year that averaged around 1.1-1.2 million a year, at least from corroborated information from Bigfooty ITKs from the Dogs and Hawks board (take it with a pinch of salt). I would be very surprised that he isn't on a similar figure next year outside of some list management practices of back ending the deal.

Holmes had 7 figures deals from rival clubs on the table. As above, could be back ended. Maybe he's taken unders so he might be on 750-850ish as opposed to a million.

Geelong have a lot of players coming out of contract in 2025 which will give you a bit of flexibility in managing the cap but they are both players who rightfully commanded good coin and they will be compensated well by the Cats.

With cap increases a million bucks isn't what it used to be so I don't think it's going to break the bank like some might be suggesting.

 

[My Tilly]

Holmes signed a big deal. He'd be on a good chunk of change next year. Probably close to 7 figures considering some of the offers he received earlier on in the year.

You are doing a bit of history revisionism as Holmes was not the player he is today when he signed that extension.
In fact, many opposition fans smirked whenever Geelong supporters talked him up. Go read the Holmes 'best player in 5 years time' on the mainboard to get a clear example of this.

The moment he signed the contract extension, he literally exploded and became Geelong's most consistent player.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Baz had two very similar offers from Hawthorn, Collingwood and Geelong earlier in the year that averaged around 1.1-1.2 million a year, at least from corroborated information from Bigfooty ITKs from the Dogs and Hawks board (take it with a pinch of salt). I would be very surprised that he isn't on a similar figure next year outside of some list management practices of back ending the deal.

Holmes had 7 figures deals from rival clubs on the table. As above, could be back ended. Maybe he's taken unders so he might be on 750-850ish as opposed to a million.

Geelong have a lot of players coming out of contract in 2025 which will give you a bit of flexibility in managing the cap but they are both players who rightfully commanded good coin and they will be compensated well by the Cats.

With cap increases a million bucks isn't what it used to be so I don't think it's going to break the bank like some might be suggesting.

Baz the details aren't known but reports are that the money was less than the dogs offer. He's not on the list yet in any case

You're right we have a few climbing up to that mark, just the guys like Stengle and Holmes aren't there yet despite getting bigger offers elsewhere

 

[SSSSSS]

You are doing a bit of history revisionism as Holmes was not the player he is today when he signed that extension.
In fact, many opposition fans smirked whenever Geelong supporters talked him up. Go read the Holmes 'best player in 5 years time' on the mainboard to get a clear example of this.

The moment he signed the contract extension, he literally exploded and became Geelong's most consistent player.

I don't think it's a revisionist take to say that he was your most important signing to make at the time as he was realistically the only player under say 23-25 that looked like a potential A-grader.

He was highly rated by the footy world, maybe not the media at that stage, but he definitely had some strong interest and some good coin on the table from elsewhere.

His next contract will be a biggun.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think that there's a huge chance that getting Smith and Oliver will be our Hopper/Taranto moment, but admittedly, I'm pretty fascinated with how it plays out.

We've remained competitive over the past few years (in my opinion) because: a) while we've had our share of misfires, they've all been pretty low-risk going in; and b) we've continued getting value with consistent quality coming on to the list over the five-year 2019-23 drafts.

Now, we're bringing in Smith, who's risky due primarily to injury and Oliver, who's a massive risk if we bring it in regardless of what it takes (long-term salary commitments, or draft picks). Because we've brought in a lot of mature-age talent on to our list in recent offseasons, we currently have a very strong group of 21-25 year olds, but really only Jhye Clark and Connor O'Sullivan as expected long-term prospects under 21 years old (with neither really proven at AFL level). And we won't have much coming in this year, possibly next year too. It's a huge concern.

I see us being middle-of-the-road next year, with most of our draft hand traded away and mass retirements looming. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Tonythetiger]

I think that there's a huge chance that getting Smith and Oliver will be our Hopper/Taranto moment, but admittedly, I'm pretty fascinated with how it plays out.

We've remained competitive over the past few years (in my opinion) because: a) while we've had our share of misfires, they've all been pretty low-risk going in; and b) we've continued getting value with consistent quality coming on to the list over the five-year 2019-23 drafts.

Now, we're bringing in Smith, who's risky due primarily to injury and Oliver, who's a massive risk if we bring it in regardless of what it takes (long-term salary commitments, or draft picks). Because we've brought in a lot of mature-age talent on to our list in recent offseasons, we currently have a very strong group of 21-25 year olds, but really only Jhye Clark and Connor O'Sullivan as expected long-term prospects under 21 years old (with neither really proven at AFL level). And we won't have much coming in this year, possibly next year too. It's a huge concern.

I see us being middle-of-the-road next year, with most of our draft hand traded away and mass retirements looming. I hope I'm wrong.

Good comparison with Hopper and Taranto, if you guys did nothing though I would suspect that you may fall back from where you finished this year as a few sides next year really look like taking the next step. If you can pull this off, it's definitely more high risk high reward than what Richmond did. I always go back to the Chris Scott philosophy of trying to win the flag each year. Getting three guys (Oliver, Smith, Martin) on the list which you assume will all perform (Martin being managed) and natural improvement of youngsters with expected slight decline of the older types, I would still look at your side and think it's capable of beating 50% of the comp. Going to be interesting when Danger and Cameron are gone and whether that is true end of an era and how the list management strategy changes from there.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think that there's a huge chance that getting Smith and Oliver will be our Hopper/Taranto moment, but admittedly, I'm pretty fascinated with how it plays out.

We've remained competitive over the past few years (in my opinion) because: a) while we've had our share of misfires, they've all been pretty low-risk going in; and b) we've continued getting value with consistent quality coming on to the list over the five-year 2019-23 drafts.

Now, we're bringing in Smith, who's risky due primarily to injury and Oliver, who's a massive risk if we bring it in regardless of what it takes (long-term salary commitments, or draft picks). Because we've brought in a lot of mature-age talent on to our list in recent offseasons, we currently have a very strong group of 21-25 year olds, but really only Jhye Clark and Connor O'Sullivan as expected long-term prospects under 21 years old (with neither really proven at AFL level). And we won't have much coming in this year, possibly next year too. It's a huge concern.

I see us being middle-of-the-road next year, with most of our draft hand traded away and mass retirements looming. I hope I'm wrong.

I think everything depends on the trade for Oliver because that contract is absolutely cooked and i don't think we can at all cope with losing sdk the way some are saying.

For me if we lose SDK but add Oliver and Smith then best case is we are just moving our weakness from lacking 2x contested midfielders to lacking a ruck and a kpd. Sure you can fill out a 22 on paper but the key players there have some form of availability concern.

Bailey Smith I'm not concerned on his acl but I am concerned he's never been a part of the dogs best midfield. Good pick up, worth the trade value.

And if Clarry comes in, gets his s*** together and is good, and we retain SDK then we're a monty for top 4 imo.

But if we lose SDK, then everything in the backline hangs on Jack Henry's suspect foot, Kolos history of head knocks, Blitz's 34 year old body, and COS's 1 game resume.

Losing SDK everything in the ruck hangs on Stanley's semi-retired 34 year old body, Conway's pinned navicular, Edwards spindly arms, Furphys one season of VFL, and Shannon Neale.

Maybe those risks can be covered and we go top 4 next year with a firing Oliver and Smith but i think that's pretty unlikely. Most likely they impact the midfield well but we've opened up new gaps in the list we can't cover and make up the numbers in the 8.

There's also the downside risk in that Oliver's contract is comfortably the worst in the AFL and if we take a substantial part of it on we risk not being able to solve future problems. The picks I'm less worried about than the dollars owed for a long, long, time. If he rocks up and is still out of control, and he's a negative influence on the group, and is playing like a better version of Jack Steven then we just torched our culture, our cap, our structure and will not be making the 8 that year or likely next.

So I think losing SDK while contracted is basically pawning every single possession you have and going chips in on a good-average poker hand

 

[MisterMarcus]

The only reason we'd let SDK go is if he was desperately unhappy, and we felt we couldn't turn that around.

We're not going to be booting him out the door or being indifferent to him staying.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Good comparison with Hopper and Taranto, if you guys did nothing though I would suspect that you may fall back from where you finished this year as a few sides next year really look like taking the next step. If you can pull this off, it's definitely more high risk high reward than what Richmond did. I always go back to the Chris Scott philosophy of trying to win the flag each year. Getting three guys (Oliver, Smith, Martin) on the list which you assume will all perform (Martin being managed) and natural improvement of youngsters with expected slight decline of the older types, I would still look at your side and think it's capable of beating 50% of the comp. Going to be interesting when Danger and Cameron are gone and whether that is true end of an era and how the list management strategy changes from there.

I think the thing that appeals to me about the Hopper/Taranto comparison, is that on the surface, I don't think either has been an outright disaster for Richmond, I think both are solid players. It's just a classic case of a footy department completely misjudging where its list is at and making the wrong trade at the wrong time based on that.

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

What does a Geelong best 23 look like next year? So much flexibility in that team its hard to know

 

[Hamingja]

What does a Geelong best 23 look like next year? So much flexibility in that team its hard to know

Are you assuming Smith and Oliver both get done?

B: Z.Guthrie Blicavs Kolodjashnij
HB: Stewart J.Henry Humphries
C: Holmes Smith Dempsey
HF: Miers Cameron Close
F: Stengle Neale O.Henry
R: De Koning Dangerfield Oliver
I: C.Guthrie Bowes Atkins Bruhn Mannagh

Stanley Conway Duncan Martin Bews Mullin O'Connor

Would be a decent squad of 30 to pick from

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

Are you assuming Smith and Oliver both get done?

B: Z.Guthrie Blicavs Kolodjashnij
HB: Stewart J.Henry Humphries
C: Holmes Smith Dempsey
HF: Miers Cameron Close
F: Stengle Neale O.Henry
R: De Koning Dangerfield Oliver
I: C.Guthrie Bowes Atkins Bruhn Mannagh

Stanley Conway Duncan Martin Bews Mullin O'Connor

Would be a decent squad of 30 to pick from

Yep, Martin too but he'd be borderline.

Interesting. SDK ruck?

 

[joe444]

The questions are coming from envy of what a team with stable leadership and forward planning can do.

So we get this endless cr@p about Cotton On and land packages, even though the league scrutinises it every year and not a single club official complains about it.

For example, if you keep replacing your recruiters and list managers, and sign inflated contracts to keep players, what are the odds you're adequately prepared for the $3m increase in salary cap which is about to kick in?

 

[Hamingja]

Yep, Martin too but he'd be borderline.

Interesting. SDK ruck?

That's going to be the big question mark on the team. Blicavs struggled with a foot injury this year and was poor through the midfield. He then dropped into defence and played well and along with Stanley taking his second chance in the ruck was the main reason SDK was left out at the end of the year. Yeah SDK got injured at a bad time but he was fit again by the end of the year. Maybe a fully fit Blitz can go back into the midfield this year, heaven knows would need someone defensive side of stoppage if you had Dangerfield, Smith and Oliver in there. I just think at this point that the ruck is the most likely place to shoehorn SDK into the team and on talent he has got to play. I really like Conway as a ruck prospect too and I doubt Stanley is going to play on without being told he is still in the picture so CS has a lot of options there.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I think the thing that appeals to me about the Hopper/Taranto comparison, is that on the surface, I don't think either has been an outright disaster for Richmond, I think both are solid players. It's just a classic case of a footy department completely misjudging where its list is at and making the wrong trade at the wrong time based on that.

Absolutely spot on.

If the Hopper/Taranto trade was 2 years earlier the tigers might have another premiership. Somehow the club didn't think that the players had gotten older and with some bad luck (Dusty injury), and rule changes that stuffed the tigers game plan the trade created a good contested team, without much midfield around them.

Geelong is in a similar position, on paper. If the Cats do face that slide in key players then all you may do is fix a problem, and not get any better.

Having said that I don't see the cliff Richmond hit happening to the Cats. ... But then I also didn't see Richmond only having about 26 fit players for much of the season happening.

High risk high reward kind of situation. The Cats have a track record of making that sort of thing work - although not quite this much risk.

 

[joe444]

Absolutely spot on.

If the Hopper/Taranto trade was 2 years earlier the tigers might have another premiership. Somehow the club didn't think that the players had gotten older and with some bad luck (Dusty injury), and rule changes that stuffed the tigers game plan the trade created a good contested team, without much midfield around them.

Geelong is in a similar position, on paper. If the Cats do face that slide in key players then all you may do is fix a problem, and not get any better.

Having said that I don't see the cliff Richmond hit happening to the Cats. ... But then I also didn't see Richmond only having about 26 fit players for much of the season happening.

High risk high reward kind of situation. The Cats have a track record of making that sort of thing work - although not quite this much risk.

We're all better in hindsight, and you can see why the Tigers went for it. Probably overrated what they were bringing in. I wonder if it made it harder to promote younger talent, too.

I suspect what's really helped Geelong has been that ability to salvage really good players from the lower ends of drafts or rookie drafts (9, I think rookies in the PF squad?). Our record at the top of the draft ain't so good. Indeed, it's almost like we really don't rate picks in the teens.

 

[Dr Tigris]

We're all better in hindsight, and you can see why the Tigers went for it. Probably overrated what they were bringing in. I wonder if it made it harder to promote younger talent, too.

I suspect what's really helped Geelong has been that ability to salvage really good players from the lower ends of drafts or rookie drafts (9, I think rookies in the PF squad?). Our record at the top of the draft ain't so good. Indeed, it's almost like we really don't rate picks in the teens.

The Tigers definitely didn't bring through the young guys towards the end of Dimma's reign.

The Cats have done a great job of staying there or thereabouts. The question is really whether you are being held up by a couple of super players, and will drop without them. Or can the Cats rebuild without rebuilding? For every other club the answer would be Drop! After a decade of waiting for the drop I'm fairly cautious of saying that now.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yep, Martin too but he'd be borderline.

Interesting. SDK ruck?

Ruck is the big ? Mark. Rhys has a cooked knee and is backup only. Conway is made of glass and blicavs was carrying injury this year and is near the end. I assume sdk will have to ruck a fair bit next year unless we trade a ruck in. (But if Henry gets injured we would need go swing him back).

 

[Shai]

I certainly do not want Clarry or Jack for different reasons.

Poison with Oliver and long term issues with Martin, not to mention Humphries has him covered.

The pieces that do come in will be intriguing and compliment our established squad.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Ruck is the big ? Mark. Rhys has a cooked knee and is backup only. Conway is made of glass and blicavs was carrying injury this year and is near the end. I assume sdk will have to ruck a fair bit next year unless we trade a ruck in. (But if Henry gets injured we would need go swing him back).

I think we draft bog gooba as a 4th round this year and he acts as a stop gap until conway is right.

Oliver is a gun, not sure he just needs s change of scenery though. I think he needs to change he's lifestyle, he hasn't shown that yet, so I'd pass. Martin is backup only, not sure why we delist rohan and get martin really. Clark should take another step next year and play every game