Geelong, Hawthorn and Sydney dominance - is there a problem?

[Footy_Fan2007]

The last time we beat you was at Kardinia. Can't argue with history.

Did you enjoy the cats/tigers game this year?

 

[threesixpio]

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The 3 clubs which share 9 of the last 11 premierships between them occupy the top 3 rungs of the AFL ladder at the end of the home and away season.

After this season is finished, 10 of the last 12 premierships will be shared between 3 clubs.

So much for equalisation.

There's nothing to see here, move along as everything is ok

Equalisation can only do so much. Short of giving a flag to a team each year. Your club in particular has been an absolute joke and no amount of whinging will alter how incredibly imcompetant your club is. Your anger is directed in the wrong direction.

 

[threesixpio]

I think this post sums up the situation and a fair part of the reason why those teams have dominated over a period of time. They were good in their own right, but the extended period of time they dominated was helped by the timing of GWS & GC coming into the comp. I don't think they'll dominate for much longer. Though we are entering the manufactured period of GWS dominance for the next 4-5 years IMO.

People keep forgetting the development of late second/third rounders in these three teams. These three teams are chock a block of great players who are not free agents, trades or early picks.

Paul Puopolo - pick 66 FFS !

We made do - as did Geelong and the Swans

I'd be happy to go through more if you want

Meanwhile Richmond picks up Tambling instead of Buddy Franklin and Roughead. oh my godfather

 

[OK Computer]

You can say its off fiels strength, which seems legit.

But geelong nearly scked bomber in 2006 and kennett seemed to ahve it in for clarkson.

Maybe these two clubs are where they are because they held their nerve in iffy times, and maybe other clubs have sacked potentially good administrations?

We had footy dept tax introduced a couple of years ago. These clubs just found a way to pay it, but there was an unexplained rush by amny clubs to sack coaches, scard tha tif they left it longer, they would have to pay tax on the payouts? Maybe equalisation attempts are actually counter productive?

What? Scard tha tif? What?

 

[Mootsy]

Have to agree. We need to fix our own backyards rather than whinge that the good teams need to be brought back to the pack

Exactly right..

Hawks, Geelong and Sydney are as good as the best teams during the 1980s/1990s..

These teams haven't allowed business or politics to interfere with what football is all about.

The problem is other clubs just haven't run their football departments at a good enough level..

Take Essendon from 2007-2013. Fumbly, struggled to find clean possession, seemed to be lacking structure and a non existant forward line. The only conclusion I can make is sheer stupidity in the running of the club. No real plan b or c or d.

Mark Thompson echoed those statements a few times ..

 

[Crankyhawk]

I think what the fear is for the next 10 years it would be like this

Premiers
2016 Hawks
2017 Cats
2018 Swans
2019 Other
2020 Other
2021 Cats
2022 Hawks
2023 Swans
2024 Other
2025 Hawks

And replace other with GWS as well.
Still I think I could live with that forecast.

 

[Crankyhawk]

We must be due, pencil r21 in

So close too...

 

[Crankyhawk]

You can say its off fiels strength, which seems legit.

But geelong nearly scked bomber in 2006 and kennett seemed to ahve it in for clarkson.

Maybe these two clubs are where they are because they held their nerve in iffy times, and maybe other clubs have sacked potentially good administrations?

We had footy dept tax introduced a couple of years ago. These clubs just found a way to pay it, but there was an unexplained rush by amny clubs to sack coaches, scard tha tif they left it longer, they would have to pay tax on the payouts? Maybe equalisation attempts are actually counter productive?

Or good clubs also can recognise and do something about underperformance as opposed to holding on for stability- hi Hardwick

 

[MagpieJo]

Was caused by the introduction of the new clubs and the series of heavily compromised drafts. Geelong and Hawthorn were up at the time and the next level clubs were unable to draft enough good players to run them down. Sydney has been able to add at least one top 5 player every year due to the Cola and their academy picks, this has kept them up top.

The wheel is turning now the expansion clubs are established. GWS will peak over the next five years and could take a flag or two with their frightening depth of talent but will also be shedding very good footballers who have not been able to squeeze into their best 22.

Dogs and Saints are coming again, brilliant drafting combined with astute coaching choices and the good fortune to finish in the bottom few teams at the right time (after the draft compromise period). West Coast and Adelaide too are coming.

The premiership is about being consistent in finals and up on a single day of the year.

Perhaps more disturbing is that since 2005 only 8 teams have played in grand finals ...

Hawthorn 5
Geelong 4
Sydney 4
West Coast 3
Collingwood 2*
St Kilda 2*
Fremantle 1
Port Adelaide 1

* If you overlook the draw only 4 teams have played in multiple grand finals.

Sadly the AFL plays lip service to equalization when as a corporate entity their focus in on profit and therefore on the TV rights.

Good post except the *
Saints played 2009 and 2010, we played 2010 and 2011

 

[spannerSM]

People keep forgetting the development of late second/third rounders in these three teams. These three teams are chock a block of great players who are not free agents, trades or early picks.

Paul Puopolo - pick 66 FFS !

Yeah the 2010 draft is really illustrative. This was the first of the 'compromised' drafts that folk like to complain about.

The Hawks had a smart period, bringing in Hale at the trading table, and picking Poppy at #66, as you mentioned. By the way, Richmond had five picks before that point. The Swans grabbed Parker for a steal at #40 (after Richmond's first two picks), and Alex Johnson at #57. The Cats picked up some handy players in Smedts and Guthrie, and brought in Podsiadly from the rookie list to bolster their structure while Hawkins continued developing.

Meanwhile Richmond picked Conca at #6. Yes, Harley Bennell and Sam Day went to concession picks ahead of where Richmond otherwise would have fallen in the order. But at #6 you still had Caddy, Heppell, Prestia and Tom Lynch on the table. While we do have the benefit of hindsight, the picture painted is one of poor decision making by Richmond recruiters (and likely poor development programs also).

 

[Rotayjay]

If the AFL keeps going down this path of only a couple of sides dominating (and I suspect that GWS will simply take Hawthorn's place), it might as well shut up shop. Leicester City upsets are the 5,000-1 exception rather than the rule in the EPL. A league in which the same 3 or 4 sides always win the flag is not a very interesting league to follow.

 

[Vdubs]

Just keep in mind that we are entering a new season- FINALS- and top 4 H&A means nothing but a double chance for 1-4.
After the 1/10/16 we could be looking at a different top 4. WCE,
GWS, Adelaide, Dogs- these teams will be in calculations for top 4 soon, if not this year, certainly 2017 and beyond.
This year is possibly an anomaly in some ways- Hawks going for 4 in a row, Swans finally strutting their true potential with all talent available, and Geelong's aggressive recruiting bearing fruit already. All finish at 17-5, but GWS, WCE, Adelaide, Dogs, are all really close.
This is certainly a season where the post finals top 4 could be significantly different from Swans, Cats, Hawks, GWS.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

Exactly right..

Hawks, Geelong and Sydney are as good as the best teams during the 1980s/1990s..

These teams haven't allowed business or politics to interfere with what football is all about.

The problem is other clubs just haven't run their football departments at a good enough level..

Take Essendon from 2007-2013. Fumbly, struggled to find clean possession, seemed to be lacking structure and a non existant forward line. The only conclusion I can make is sheer stupidity in the running of the club. No real plan b or c or d.

Mark Thompson echoed those statements a few times ..

Not to mention the farcical things that happened in management at some other clubs. There's a reason some teams were down for a long time and it had everything to do with management problems, and little to do with good draft picks or poor funding. No equalisation policy could have fixed that (unless it included the AFL sacking the management of clubs for the good of the game).

In light of that, maybe improved AFL specific management and coaching courses could help. I get the feeling in other pro sports there is a lot more needed to get a job in these positions.

 

[matey]

Hawks will slide a bit for sure as Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne leave quite a hole in about 18 months. That type of talent is hard to replace overnight. As it is they are just clinging to top 4 right now by skin of their teeth.

Don't hold your breath and I feel that many underrate Hawthorns next wave of players/seniors that have contributed to our recent success and that can carry on the baton.

Clarko is doing it again this year under everyone's noses. He is planning for this transition in debuting 7/8 new players and we still made top 4. In the last month we have also found a player. Burton will be a gun, last week down back against the Magpies he showed more composure than what Frawley and Birchall did in the pressure cooker. He is good size, moves well and has silky skills and wants to eventually play midfield!

 

[Vdubs]

Don't hold your breath and I feel that many underrate Hawthorns next wave of players/seniors that have contributed to our recent success and that can carry on the baton.

Clarko is doing it again this year under everyone's noses. He is planning for this transition in debuting 7/8 new players and we still made top 4. In the last month we have also found a player. Burton will be a gun, last week down back against the Magpies he showed more composure than what Frawley and Birchall did in the pressure cooker. He is good size, moves well and has silky skills and wants to eventually play midfield!

For Hawthorn to be in their current position- qualifying final, at home, double chance, no Roughy, Lake, Hale- is brilliant, and I for one expect a Swans Hawks GF. Again. Of course, would love my team to be there, but either way, this Hawks team will never be underrated.

 

[threesixpio]

Yeah the 2010 draft is really illustrative. This was the first of the 'compromised' drafts that folk like to complain about.

The Hawks had a smart period, bringing in Hale at the trading table, and picking Poppy at #66, as you mentioned. By the way, Richmond had five picks before that point. The Swans grabbed Parker for a steal at #40 (after Richmond's first two picks), and Alex Johnson at #57. The Cats picked up some handy players in Smedts and Guthrie, and brought in Podsiadly from the rookie list to bolster their structure while Hawkins continued developing.

Meanwhile Richmond picked Conca at #6. Yes, Harley Bennell and Sam Day went to concession picks ahead of where Richmond otherwise would have fallen in the order. But at #6 you still had Caddy, Heppell, Prestia and Tom Lynch on the table. While we do have the benefit of hindsight, the picture painted is one of poor decision making by Richmond recruiters (and likely poor development programs also).

Parker is a bloody gun. Part of it is having a great eye for talent but the other is just plain developing talent.

And for those traded in - Hale and Gibson were seen as average players at North. Each have 3 flags now.

 

[threesixpio]

Have to agree. We need to fix our own backyards rather than whinge that the good teams need to be brought back to the pack

There were likely Hawks whinging in 2000 about you guys. Swings and roundabouts

 

[threesixpio]

Just keep in mind that we are entering a new season- FINALS- and top 4 H&A means nothing but a double chance for 1-4.
After the 1/10/16 we could be looking at a different top 4. WCE,
GWS, Adelaide, Dogs- these teams will be in calculations for top 4 soon, if not this year, certainly 2017 and beyond.
This year is possibly an anomaly in some ways- Hawks going for 4 in a row, Swans finally strutting their true potential with all talent available, and Geelong's aggressive recruiting bearing fruit already. All finish at 17-5, but GWS, WCE, Adelaide, Dogs, are all really close.
This is certainly a season where the post finals top 4 could be significantly different from Swans, Cats, Hawks, GWS.

Crow and WC can be very good. I won't fall off my chair if they still win it from outside top 4. Hawthorn was in top 4 but lost the QF and still won it last year.

Bulldogs had a terrible year with injuries - who knows what would have happened with them having a full list. They could have been scary good

 

[threesixpio]

For Hawthorn to be in their current position- qualifying final, at home, double chance, no Roughy, Lake, Hale- is brilliant, and I for one expect a Swans Hawks GF. Again. Of course, would love my team to be there, but either way, this Hawks team will never be underrated.

You guys will beat us next week. We will struggle. I still agree with your post otherwise

 

[Kwality]

Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wrong!!!!

Why so?

 

[threesixpio]

Why so?

Frawley is our only free agent (well Simpkin is a de-listed free agent so him too)

The others were fair and square trades. Look it up

HUGE myth that Hawthorn has benefitted from free agency.













ps: We lost Buddy.













BUDDY FFS!!!!

and suckling

 

[Kwality]

Exactly right..

Hawks, Geelong and Sydney are as good as the best teams during the 1980s/1990s..

These teams haven't allowed business or politics to interfere with what football is all about.

The problem is other clubs just haven't run their football departments at a good enough level..

Take Essendon from 2007-2013. Fumbly, struggled to find clean possession, seemed to be lacking structure and a non existant forward line. The only conclusion I can make is sheer stupidity in the running of the club. No real plan b or c or d.

Mark Thompson echoed those statements a few times ..

Go back to 2000, & the implosion of that list .... sheer stupidity in spades.

 

[Kwality]

Frawley is our only free agent (well Simpkin is a de-listed free agent so him too)

The others were fair and square trades. Look it up

HUGE myth that Hawthorn has benefitted from free agency.













ps: We lost Buddy.













BUDDY FFS!!!!

and suckling

Clearly it takes more than free agency to effectively manage a list .... trading, drafting .... all 3 are there for all to see.

 

[threesixpio]

Clearly it takes more than free agency to effectively manage a list .... trading, drafting .... all 3 are there for all to see.

I reckon the biggest challenge of FA has been keeping players. Its not talked about enough. That's the only argument I can mount that Hawthorn has done well out of it i.e. players do not want to LEAVE due to premiership success and some at Hawthorn are getting paid peanuts compared to others because of it. Still - hard to bag out a team for fighting against FA so well

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Reckon the end is in sight for Hawthorn, Hodge Lewis and Mitchell are still their best players and they don't have long left.

If they had kept Buddy and Roughead hadn't got sick they might have continued up there.

Sydney still looks bloody good.