Geelong rorting the system

[Meteoric Rise]

I acknowledged that in another post. Move on!

Just saw that, but it does demonstrate you are prepared to judge a situation in favour of your preferred argument regardless of the facts.

So rather than "move on" how about we go back to my original point that you were very keen to answer with a misinformed response. Why did Baker, a player who would be seen as less valuable, trade for more than Smith, who would be seen as more valuable? Both ucontracted, Baker 2 years older. There is no way Smith's value is the value of pick 19. He was pick 8 in a strong draft and is generally seen as having outperformed so far in his career, & is now entering his prime, when players are seen as being at their most valuable trade wise.

The difference is Smith made it known he was getting to Geelong at all costs, no matter the damage to his previous club. And Baker made it known he was only going to WC if a fair deal for Richmond could be arranged. So we are all wondering why Smith did this. It is not exactly difficult to connect dots and reason it is likely to be due to his relationship with Geelong sponsor Cotton On. More specifically, that they have induced him on Geelong's behalf. Which allows Geelong to effectively pay a player more than they could afford to within the salary cap. From an outsider's perspective that is a very obvious leap to make.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I just edited my post so you may not have seen it.

"And why did the AFL not contest this finding? They had the power to if they wanted."

They let him get away with it because they wanted him to get away with it.

No-one will remember the circumstances surrounding this in a few years. But we still talk about Corey McKernan.

We had an amazing situation there. The Tribunal guidelines were found to lack procedural fairness, the very thing they should obviously be formed around. So of course we might expect the AFL to get rid of their legal counsel whose area of responsibility this was, as it was a basic and embarrassing oversight.

He was subsequently promoted.

His name is Andrew Dillon. Elevated to CEO of the AFL.

As you say, for whatever reason, the AFL clearly wanted this to happen.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Have 3-5 year rule and put the old deal into the current year’s cap. It would make it a lot harder to rort.

Maybe exclude sponsors who are sports sponsors or promotional in nature & the players are doing the work in photo shoots etc. eg. Nike

It’s the ones like a Finance company which seem a huge stretch.

It would make it impossible to manage though. You're basically making player sponsorships impossible. Good luck getting that over the line.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Well, you could time-limit it so that if, say, Rebel Sport comes on as a sponsor, they need to have a cooling off period of x months from any prior payments to players.

And yes, of course player sponsorships from club sponsors should be considered in the cap, regardless of what the AFLPA thinks. Otherwise you're opening yourself up to situations where player X comes to club Y for $800k under the cap, and also a lovely sponsorship from sponsor Z, which is contingent on you signing for that club.

I think you'll find that contingency at the end there is not a legally enforceable part of a contract

 

[Sttew]

Just saw that, but it does demonstrate you are prepared to judge a situation in favour of your preferred argument regardless of the facts.

So rather than "move on" how about we go back to my original point that you were very keen to aswer with a misinformed response. Why did Baker, a player who would be seen as less valuable, trade for more than Smith, who would be seen as more valuable. Both ucontracted, Baker 2 years older? There is no way Smith's value is the value of pick 19. He was pick 8 in a strong draft and is generally seen as having outperformed so far in his career, & is now entering his prime, when players are seen as being at their most valuable trade wise.

The difference is Smith made it known he was getting to Geelong at all costs, no matter the damage to his previous club. And Baker made it known he was only going to WC if a fair deal for Richmond could be arranged. So we are all wondering why Smith did this. It is not exactly difficult to connect dots and reason it is likely to be due to his relationship with Geelong sponsor Cotton On. More specifically, that they have induced him on Geelong's behalf. Which allows Geelong to effectively pay a player more than they could afford to with the salary cap. From an outsider's perspective that is a very obvious leap to make.

OK!

Smith is not the first player to want out of a club at all costs and he won't be the last.

Maybe it was linked partially or totally to Cotton On? I'm more inclined to think he wanted to go to a club that has enjoyed recent success and is in dire need of an inside mid. At Geelong he is guaranteed maximum time where he wants to play - in the middle.

Fact 1. Before his ACL Smith was getting less time in the midfield at WB. Probably because of Treloar?
Fact 2. An ACL will always devalue a player. Smith may well have been top 10 pre ACL, but post ACL, I think 17 was about right.
Fact 3. Smith was not treated well by WB. Proof? The Club publicly thanked McCrae and Daniels, both of whom wanted out of WB just like Smith, for their service to the club, but said nothing about Smith. Was that an oversight? I doubt it. Smith was arguably fit to play finals in 2024, but was overlooked by the Club.

 

[Sentinel]

Fact 3. Smith was not treated well by WB. Proof? The Club publicly thanked McCrae and Daniels, both of whom wanted out of WB just like Smith, for their service to the club, but said nothing about Smith. Was that an oversight? I doubt it. Smith was arguably fit to play finals in 2024, but was overlooked by the Club.

"Fact"

 

[Bushdid911]

Geelong really let everyone take a breath from the Baz rort talk, and then Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

signs on with a key sponsor. I'm looking forward to the next completely above board announcement.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

OK!

Smith is not the first player to want out of a club at all costs and he won't be the last.

Maybe it was linked partially or totally to Cotton On? I'm more inclined to think he wanted to go to a club that has enjoyed recent success and is in dire need of an inside mid. At Geelong he is guaranteed maximum time where he wants to play - in the middle.

Fact 1. Before his ACL Smith was getting less time in the midfield at WB. Probably because of Treloar?
Fact 2. An ACL will always devalue a player. Smith may well have been top 10 pre ACL, but post ACL, I think 17 was about right.
Fact 3. Smith was not treated well by WB. Proof? The Club publicly thanked McCrae and Daniels, both of whom wanted out of WB just like Smith, for their service to the club, but said nothing about Smith. Was that an oversight? I doubt it. Smith was arguably fit to play finals in 2024, but was overlooked by the Club.

Any or all of those points you make could wholly or partially explain Smith's stance, though not necessarily justify it.

Smith might not be the first to want out of a club at all costs. But he is the first we know of to leave one club for another who is sponsored by a firm with whom he has a beneficial relationship.

Players come back from ACL's to regain their best all the time in the AFL. Taylor Walker just one example off the top of my head. If that wasn't the case Geelong would not be offering Smith such a long term contract. The stuff about not being thanked by the Dogs is not "proof" of Smith leaving because the Dogs did not treat him well. It is more likely to be a result of him not treating them well - ie forcing them into a sub-value trade. Being overlooked for finals is barely a shock for a player who had not played for 12 months.

Geelong have obtained Smith well under his market trade value simply because he insisted on being traded there. The Bulldogs would not have released him for that return unless their hands were tied. Smith's insistence on being traded to the Cats is highly likely to have bee triggered by him seeing some tangible financial benefit other clubs could not offer. He is not from the area, and could have chosen any one of a number of Melbourne based clubs who need midfielders.

 

[blueboy25]

We had an amazing situation there. The Tribunal guidelines were found to lack procedural fairness, the very thing they should obviously be formed around. So of course we might expect the AFL to get rid of their legal counsel whose area of responsibility this was, as it was a basic and embarrassing oversight.

He was subsequently promoted.

His name is Andrew Dillon. Elevated to CEO of the AFL.

As you say, for whatever reason, the AFL clearly wanted this to happen.

Again as I asked the previous poster.....how were they to know Cripps would win?

Could they see the future where Cripps would get 3 votes in the last round and Neale only 1and Cripps would win by a vote. Remember Neale was leading at rd 21.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Again as I asked the previous poster.....how were they to know Cripps would win?

Could they see the future where Cripps would get 3 votes in the last round and Neale only 1and Cripps would win by a vote. Remember Neale was leading at rd 21.

It wouldn't require them knowing a leading contender was going to win. They may just for eg have wanted to ensure there was no chance of him failing to win due only to suspension.

 

[HairyO]

It wouldn't require them knowing a leading contender was going to win. They may just for eg have wanted to ensure there was no chance of him failing to win due only to suspension.

The AFL routinely manipulate everything. The idea they would risk outrage over something as high profile is ridiculous.

The irony is that incident probably gets used in the lawsuit as an example of the AFL not doing enough to reduce head injuries.

But the current mob will be long gone by the time courts hand down final decisions on those.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Why are Geelong supporters so pissy when people call them out on their clubs obvious paying outside the soft cap? I would be proud if my club had that many financial resources. Yeah we’re rich, **** you.

 

[iameviljez]

I think you'll find that contingency at the end there is not a legally enforceable part of a contract

Legally enforceable, no. But wink and a handshake, yes.