Jhye Clark 13
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Injured his foot in his debut game and wasn't seen again.
Geelong - Too old, too slow?
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- Jul 15, 2014
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Oh that’s sad. Well hopefully he recovers well for next season
Jhye Clark 13
07, 09, 11, 22
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We just couldn't take a trick this year on the injury front.
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Geelong fans are deluded were saying Danger has had a better season than Martin getting 12 posssesions as an inside midfielder where Martin is elite in most categories as a forward mid.
Completely get the point but it is worth remembering that at the time, Bartel was seen as a good ordinary plodder, and Ablett was seen as an inconsistent half forward
Jhye Clark 13
07, 09, 11, 22
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You used some strange players to compare.
More like
SDK = Scarlett
Bruhn = Ablett
Clark = Bartel
Huh? Who said that? And also who cares? Neither are playing in September
Their seasons aren't that far apart. Not "should retire" vs "should be AA" which is the bizarre narrative I've seen from a few Tigers fans.
Martin's disposals and clearances are only rated elite compared to pure forwards. Of course Martin is getting more disposals and clearances than Breust, Close, Higgins and co. He links up through midfield the same way he always has, he just doesn't start at as many centre bounces.
Dangerfield: 20.6 disposals, 10.9 contested possessions, 5.6 clearances, 1.9 goals/assists, 5.9 inside 50s, 6.6 effective kicks, 5.9 score involvements and 1.9 score launches per game. 7 times featuring in coaches votes.
Martin: 23.1 disposals, 9.5 contested possessions, 2.7 clearances, 2.0 goals/assists, 4.9 inside 50s, 6.9 effective kicks, 7.5 score involvements and 1.2 score launches per game. 7 times featuring in coaches votes (after today).
If I replaced the names with "Player X" and "Player Y" I reckon more people would take the second column but there's not a huge amount in it.
Martin has 2.5 times more goals than Danger this year. It's not close.
- Aug 15, 2015
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The point remains
You'd expect that as someone playing half forward/link up with mids as opposed to an inside midfielder, and having played two games more (also: Dangerfield has had a hammy start of one second half, and broken ribs in the second quarter of another match). Dangerfield dominates contested possessions (expected) and has twice as many goal assists on average (unexpected). The coaches have recognised them the same amount of times.
Dangerfield has struggled a bit since coming back from the broken ribs/punctured lung. Scott said as much after Saturday's game and it's been obvious when watching.
- Jun 19, 2006
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Danger is a strange player at the moment. He's got 2 gears, superstar and very average.
His best footy of this year was up with the best of his career because his ball use which has always been his biggest weakness was exceptional when he was playing well. I'm not sure you could say that about Martin.
But there was a lot time during games where Dangerfield was completely anonymous too. 4 effective disposals on the weekend is damning.
So why are you comparing a forward with a midfielder?
I watched Danger this week, he stayed up forward for some time but couldn't get near it.
Danger could never play half forward like Dusty. Dusty is more in the realm of Carey, Franklin, Gary Snr
- May 5, 2016
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Yes it’s amazing how a midfielder who’s played hardly any time forward, in a team with 2 recent Coleman medalists and another medium forward who has kicked 40 goals, hasn’t kicked more himself, and has ended up with less than a different player who has divided his time fairly evenly between forward and centre.
- May 5, 2016
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Oh yeah if he did it this week he has definitely done it all year, every game, for at least that long.
You're right that it is difficult to compare forward/mids with pure mids and that has complicated almost every Martin statistical comparison (except for rare hybrids like Matthews).
Like I said, Dangerfield has been moving like a lame duck since the rib injury - first game back from a hammy and he got poleaxed. He's had the odd burst here and there but it's been nothing like his stretch from round 4-8 prior to the hammy tear. A similar scenario to Cameron. Martin has overtaken him during that period.
Franklin was still kicking 50+ goals at Martin's age and Ablett 100+. Carey is an odd one because he was at the Crows after a year off at a similar stage - not the same player after those events. But you think Martin the past 3 years has been like Carey 1999-2001? I don't see it.
Crankyhawk
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Even if it was dark karma you’d still make that choice every time (win a flag)
Geelong and Richmond are in similar positions though most fans either side would be loathe to open the other eye and admit it.
Two long term successful coaches, Richmond will change theirs but Scott won't be there forever before change is on the horizon either.
Two aging lists, champions who aren't getting any better and aren't going to improve from here, the decline in form and injury can come quickly which is always a risk.
A scattering of decent youth/mid 20s players who will be around for a while, but due to recent success neither list has the most exciting youth in the league and none of them have the next 18 year old Martin, Dangerfield or Riewoldt, Hawkins on their list.
Both will just miss finals this year, and given this season both could have probably just made finals with a bit of luck. Some calls will need to be made on both lists in the off season because again I don't think either aging list is winning a flag in 2024 ahead of younger hungrier sides, again some one eyed supporters from both ends would be loathe to admit that.
The approaches they both take from here are really interesting, because they're both facing or about to face the same issues and challenges.
Two long term successful coaches, Richmond will change theirs but Scott won't be there forever before change is on the horizon either.
Two aging lists, champions who aren't getting any better and aren't going to improve from here, the decline in form and injury can come quickly which is always a risk.
A scattering of decent youth/mid 20s players who will be around for a while, but due to recent success neither list has the most exciting youth in the league and none of them have the next 18 year old Martin, Dangerfield or Riewoldt, Hawkins on their list.
Both will just miss finals this year, and given this season both could have probably just made finals with a bit of luck. Some calls will need to be made on both lists in the off season because again I don't think either aging list is winning a flag in 2024 ahead of younger hungrier sides, again some one eyed supporters from both ends would be loathe to admit that.
The approaches they both take from here are really interesting, because they're both facing or about to face the same issues and challenges.
I think going into this week they had kicked the exact same amount of goals in there career.
Forward Press
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Thought this thread pre-2021 Grand final would be bumped by salty fans of rival clubs, was proven right.
Every supporter would take a flag then missing the finals the next few years than no flag but being perennial contenders. Strange way to troll Geelong supporters tbh. Ask a St Kilda supporter whether they preferred being up there from 2010ish but never saluting, or jagging one in 2009 then winning the spoon for the next decade.
Every supporter would take a flag then missing the finals the next few years than no flag but being perennial contenders. Strange way to troll Geelong supporters tbh. Ask a St Kilda supporter whether they preferred being up there from 2010ish but never saluting, or jagging one in 2009 then winning the spoon for the next decade.
Not to get off track, but I have a theory on why players like Cotchin and Selwood make for better captains than say Dangerfield or Martin.
Players like Dusty and Danger are able to do freakish things that most players couldn't even hope to do. It's cool to watch Danger shake off a player then burst out of congestion or Martin dodge, weave, then banana a goal from 50... but I imagine it's more a "how the @#$@ do they do that" from their teammates.
When you see Selwood or Cotchin at the bottom of ANOTHER pack... or busting their arse to get to another contest... or providing an option through sheer gut-running, that's the kind of act that a team can rally around. It's more inspiration than admiration.
I think that was one of the reasons GAJ was never touted as a future captain at the Cats and wasn't a great one at the Suns.
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I think that’s a good theory. Players like Selwood and Cotchin are more relatable to the average player than those that are the ilk of Dusty and Dangerfield.
Teammates can emulate what Selwood and Cotchin do more than what Dusty and Dangerfield do, so that’s what might give them motivation
- May 5, 2016
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That’s a retrospective question I think. I’m pretty content, I’ve seen 4 of them like you have I suspect, but there is also something to be said for showing up each week with a big chance of a win and something to play for. Absolutely it’s incredibly frustrating to be a perennial bridesmaid but it is still - at the time at least anyway - something that engages you as a fan
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I think you're definitely right with Richmond. Reiwoldt and Cotchin going feels like the end of an era. Apart from Lynch you had a reasonable run with injuries (Taranto, Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Balta and McIntosh all played every game and some of them had excellent years). So it's hard to see where a massive lift in performance comes from.
You're probably right with Geelong but there's a glimmer of hope for next year before the cliff hits. Only Miers, Atkins and Z Guthrie played every game so almost the entire list suffered from injuries. Geelong has more young players in the 30-60 game mark that are locked into the 22 and could have big breakout years next year (Holmes, Bruhn, SDK, O Henry and Stengle) whereas most of the Richmond equivalents are already excellent players who had good years (Baker, Taranto, Bolton) or still struggling to cement their place and unlikely to massively impact next year (M Rioli, Ralphsmith, Mansell, Clarke, etc). The ~20% difference in percentage suggests Geelong are starting from a higher base too.
I'd say Geelong is some change of having 1 last crack at it next year. But then it'll likely be a decent transition assuming next year is the last year for Hawkins, Danger, Stanley, Rohan and Duncan.
Forward Press
Hall of Famer
Pretty much my thoughts - yes it can only be answered in hindsight and obviously you can only win a flag if you play finals in the first place - but if you ask a Collingwood fan at the moment whether they preferred their run since 2017 or West Coast's run since 2017 - all would answer the latter.
Geelong fans - even though this year was disappointing and some of the years between 2011 and 2022 were wasted - should be damn happy at their run.
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