Geelong vs pies final should not be at the mcg.

[PhatBoy]

Maybe get with the times and become a co tennant at one of the big grounds instead of playing at a provincial ground?

So presumably if you were in charge of the NRL you’d make Newcastle relocate to Sydney because ‘times.’

Sorry but ‘the times’ don’t supersede geography. Don’t like it? Stiff shit. A non Melbourne team isn’t a Melbourne team because you can’t deal with them having a mid week kick to kick on their home ground

 

[doppleganger]

This is something I just don't get as someone used to North American sports.

Welcome to following an Australian sport, we do things our own way. Not blindly follow how North American sports do things.

The primary reason for finishing higher in the standings in most team sports is to attain home-field advantage.

You may realise that the first difference between AFL and the North American sports is that in AFL finals we give our best teams a dbl chance.

Which North American team sports get a dbl chance?

Other than a game in their state in the event it plays Sydney in a prelim, what has Geelong gained by finishing first in this instance?

Geelong has been given a dbl chance.
Geelong as minor premier, gets to play 4th to get a week off.
Geelong as minor premier gets a game.in their home state.

Unlike North American team sports, the AFL has 18 teams from just 5 states, including 10 from Victoria.

For over 100 years, the V/AFL has played big Victorian finals at the G (a neutral venue where both sides have equal access to tickets) in front of crowds of 100k people...something foreign for North American sports.

Even worse, the team that finished 4th has the distinct home field advantage. Any North American fan base would be furious with this situation.

A distinct home field advantage?

Geelong played 5 games at the G in 2022, and their fans will be given equal access to tickets as their opponents.

Any North American fanbase will tell you that if a ground is ticketed equally and both teams have played 5+ games at a venue that neither has a distinct advantage.

 

[doppleganger]

Yep, let's just get rid of GMHBA. We should all just play at the G every week. Problem solved. I'm fine with that.

That is how finals have been the entire V/AFL history.

Collingwood never earned the right to home finals at Vic Park.

Finals are league controlled games, gate receipts and cash doesnt go to the "higher ranked" club.

Finals have always been about maximising people attending and therefore the $$. Finals in Victoria have always been at the G, the suburban grounds only get a look in on the odd occassion with extreme circumstances.

 

[dangerwood]

Maybe get with the times and become a co tennant at one of the big grounds instead of playing at a provincial ground?

This is just a stupid argument. It is economically viable for Geelong as a region to have a football club. The government and AFL want a team in Geelong.

All the whingers saying "wah council rates and government money funded GMHBA" yeah because playing games there makes money.

Geelong was able to sustain the pressure to move to MCG and Marvel like other teams because they could still economically manage the ground, as a club and as a region.

Richmond supporters should understand it a little bit. You know how you feel the pubs in Swan St as you make your way down to the MCG and it's awesome? Same thing happens for Geelong supporters in Geelong, we fill the pubs around the ground and then wonder over to the game. It makes the region money. That's why I love going to home games in Geelong. I choose to live in Geelong and live next to the ground of the team I support and love the match day experience.

It is just not a home game for us at MCG, I drive to the station then stand on a crowded train to southern cross instead of a crowded pub, then a crowded train to Punt Rd. After the game I have to leave immediately at the siren and push through the supporters on punt Rd to make sure I don't miss the last train home to Geelong. It's a shit experience compared to what we earn the right to have.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

So what's the point finishing 1st then? May as well finish 4th.

Same could be said of any two MCG remnants.

 

[dillo_09]

Couldn't be bothered to read all 19 pages to see if this has been pointed out so I will post it anyway.

In H&A games Geelong "own" all of the tickets to the games and get to sell them and the near fill GMHBA with Cats fans and rightly so. They make all the profit from ticket sales (and all the other sales for each match.)

The thing that Gelong fans forget is that the AFL "owns" the ground/match when finals are played and therefore own all the tickets and the AFL sells them. This means that the stadium wouldn't be 99% full of cats fans as it normally is. H&A reserved seat allocations DO NOT apply in finals.

Therefore if Collingwood or any other team play a final in Geelong, the available tickets (After AFL & club sponsors, AFL members and possibly MCC members get their allocation) would be split between the two competing teams members based on % dependent on membership numbers.

So, ignoring the construction and using round numbers for demonstration purposes only, if there was 30,000 tickets available and the memberships were Coll 86,000 with Cats at 66,000. Pies members would get 57% (17,100) of the tickets and cats would get 43% (12,900). Therefore MOST of the 35,000+ Geelong members who go week in - week out at GMHBA would miss out on going and those who do get tickets would be out numbered at their own ground reducing their advantage. The on field advantage would remain of course.

With the game at the MCG more cats fans will get tickets and many would also bee MCC members as well so the crowd advantage to Pies is reduced and MORE people get to go which is nearly the point of it - afterall it is an entertainment business.

 

[gouki88]

Yep, let's just get rid of GMHBA. We should all just play at the G every week. Problem solved. I'm fine with that.

Sounds great!

 

[Freshwater]

Couldn't be bothered to read all 19 pages to see if this has been pointed out so I will post it anyway.

In H&A games Geelong "own" all of the tickets to the games and get to sell them and the near fill GMHBA with Cats fans and rightly so. They make all the profit from ticket sales (and all the other sales for each match.)

The thing that Gelong fans forget is that the AFL "owns" the ground/match when finals are played and therefore own all the tickets and the AFL sells them. This means that the stadium wouldn't be 99% full of cats fans as it normally is. H&A reserved seat allocations DO NOT apply in finals.

Therefore if Collingwood or any other team play a final in Geelong, the available tickets (After AFL & club sponsors, AFL members and possibly MCC members get their allocation) would be split between the two competing teams members based on % dependent on membership numbers.

So, ignoring the construction and using round numbers for demonstration purposes only, if there was 30,000 tickets available and the memberships were Coll 86,000 with Cats at 66,000. Pies members would get 57% (17,100) of the tickets and cats would get 43% (12,900). Therefore MOST of the 35,000+ Geelong members who go week in - week out at GMHBA would miss out on going and those who do get tickets would be out numbered at their own ground reducing their advantage. The on field advantage would remain of course.

With the game at the MCG more cats fans will get tickets and many would also bee MCC members as well so the crowd advantage to Pies is reduced and MORE people get to go which is nearly the point of it - afterall it is an entertainment business.

We could’ve all not read the 19 pages because you have articulated the whole thing perfectly. There is way too much reason in this post for one eyed football fans.

 

[doppleganger]

So presumably if you were in charge of the NRL you’d make Newcastle relocate to Sydney because ‘times.’

Nup, wouldnt relocate them it is important to keep the big regional cities active during H&A season.

Sorry but ‘the times’ don’t supersede geography. Don’t like it? Stiff s**t. A non Melbourne team isn’t a Melbourne team because you can’t deal with them having a mid week kick to kick on their home ground

Newcastle Knights have been bog average for best part of two decades.

The last time they won the NRL title, 2021, they "hosted" a prelim final at the Sydney Football stadium against Cronulla (a Sydney based team).

The Knights also had to win the NRL GF which was played at Stadium Australia in Sydney, against Parramatta.

Just like the AFL, the NRL play finals at the biggest stadiums available.

Geelong like Newcastle, head to the big smoke for finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nup, wouldnt relocate them it is important to keep the big regional cities active during H&A season.

Newcastle Knights have been bog average for best part of two decades.

The last time they won the NRL title, 2021, they "hosted" a prelim final at the Sydney Football stadium against Cronulla (a Sydney based team).

The Knights also had to win the NRL GF which was played at Stadium Australia in Sydney, against Parramatta.

Just like the AFL, the NRL play finals at the biggest stadiums available.

Geelong like Newcastle, head to the big smoke for finals.

They’ve also a) hosted 5 finals and b) that’s not even what I was replying to. I was replying to the revolutionary idea of permanently basing a non Melbourne team in Melbourne

 

[Freshwater]

Nup, wouldnt relocate them it is important to keep the big regional cities active during H&A season.

Newcastle Knights have been bog average for best part of two decades.

The last time they won the NRL title, 2021, they "hosted" a prelim final at the Sydney Football stadium against Cronulla (a Sydney based team).

The Knights also had to win the NRL GF which was played at Stadium Australia in Sydney, against Parramatta.

Just like the AFL, the NRL play finals at the biggest stadiums available.

Geelong like Newcastle, head to the big smoke for finals.

And Newcastle is a slightly different comparison to Geelong. Newcastle is twice the distance away from Sydney than Geelong to Melbourne. And Newcastle is twice the size of Geelong. Geelong is closer to being a Melbourne suburb that what Newcastle is. Geelong have always watched Melbourne TV not their own unlike Newcastle and many commute to work in Melbourne.

 

[doppleganger]

It's a s**t experience compared to what we earn the right to have.

Geelong finishing first has earnt a double chance and the right to a home state final against the 4th placed team.

That is as per AFL rules.

There is nothing about a home ground final in AFL rules, as it isnt a H&A game.

All Victorian based clubs know finals are at the G, and tickets are split equally.

 

[doppleganger]

They’ve also a) hosted 5 finals and b) that’s not even what I was replying to. I was replying to the revolutionary idea of permanently basing a non Melbourne team in Melbourne

Yes, as the NRL knows week1 finals struggle to crack 20k people so they are played at smaller grounds.

They then bring the big NSW finals to Sydney Football Stadium / Stadium Australia.

Concept is the same, no guarantee of a "home" final...finals locations are at league discretion and it is about maximising $$ and people getting access.

 

[Big Crow]

This is something I just don't get as someone used to North American sports. The primary reason for finishing higher in the standings in most team sports is to attain home-field advantage. Other than a game in their state in the event it plays Sydney in a prelim, what has Geelong gained by finishing first in this instance? Even worse, the team that finished 4th has the distinct home field advantage. Any North American fan base would be furious with this situation.

It’s not just North America either, it’s most of world sport.

Simple answer - The AFL is a bush league. Rounds 1 to 23 are essentially meaningless in a lot of ways.

 

[doppleganger]

Same could be said of any two MCG remnants.

The same is always said when a match-up is between two vic teams.

2018 Tigers minor premier and unlucky that Hawthorn were 4th = no advantage.

Then in 2018 PF, minor Premier Tigers unlucky that up against Collingwood = no advantage.

The advantage / disadvantage of having 10 teams from one State is a shit load of neutral games.

Finals in the VFL have always been neutral games.

Geelong just started a regular sook fest under C.Scott, now thinking they are entitled to finals at Cat Park...never been the case.

 

[PhatBoy]

The same is always said when a match-up is between two vic teams.

2018 Tigers minor premier and unlucky that Hawthorn were 4th = no advantage.

Then in 2018 PF, minor Premier Tigers unlucky that up against Collingwood = no advantage.

The advantage / disadvantage of having 10 teams from one State is a s**t load of neutral games.

Finals in the VFL have always been neutral games.

Geelong just started a regular sook fest under C.Scott, now thinking they are entitled to finals at Cat Park...never been the case.

For the second time, it really doesn’t bother me where we are playing but you realise the difference between no advantage and a disadvantage right?

 

[mcgarnacle]

Geelong finishing first has earnt a double chance and the right to a home state final against the 4th placed team.

That is as per AFL rules.

There is nothing about a home ground final in AFL rules, as it isnt a H&A game.

All Victorian based clubs know finals are at the G, and tickets are split equally.

Melbourne, Collingwood, Brisbane and Fremantle are each getting a home ground final.

 

[FRUMPY]

note the grand final is a little different because there are no home sides in a grand final and the crowds arent heavily biased to mcg tenants due to fans travelling and all the neutral fans. So please dont bring grand final arguments into this thread as its not equivalent.

How is there not a home team in a grand final?

you cant make an argument for one week of finals but then not for all finals because it wouldnt suit your team if you then had to play a grand final interstate.....

pure nuffie post by you - one eye open

 

[blue harvest]

Ahahahahaha. What kind of a response is that? We will answer that question when we come to it?
No answer it now.
If this year (Gabbas not knocked down yet) Gold Coast finished first and Brisbane 4th, Gold Coast would've earnt the right to home state final at the Gabba. That's how everyone is telling me it works. If that's not how it works, give me a good reason why, because I'm not gett

There are several factors at play, it's not just about the biggest and best stadium.
They take into account expected demand, difference in capacity and familiarity with the ground.
Suns have played just 1 game at the Gabba this year so it wouldn't be very fair to make them play a home derby final there, where as the Cats play heaps of games at the G. Largest footy crowd at Metricon is 24k in a H&A game, Gabba is 37k in a final - so for a final the difference in capacity might be just 10 or so thousand, not the 65k difference between the G and KP. Also all Suns members that wanted a ticket would likely get one at Metricon, where as all Cats members that wanted a ticket would not get one at KP. I'm not sure which way the AFL would go, probably err to Metricon taking into account all of the above, but who knows.

 

[blue harvest]

Melbourne, Collingwood, Brisbane and Fremantle are each getting a home ground final.

They are getting home state finals.
A lot of the time the finals venue in each state happens to also be their home ground.

 

[Tigers_fan24]

It will make a mockery of the competition if the clear competition leader is playing its home final in front of 75 thousand screaming pies fans at the ground the pies play 15 games at each season when the pies finished fourth.

we can not have a repeat of the ridiculous 2017 finals series.

surely the competition has moved beyond the amateurish of playing finals where crowds are highest at the expense of fairness. Other professional sports do not do this.

note the grand final is a little different because there are no home sides in a grand final and the crowds arent heavily biased to mcg tenants due to fans travelling and all the neutral fans. So please dont bring grand final arguments into this thread as its not equivalent.

play the game at either kardinia and if thats not possible (it is) then play at least docklands.

for the sake of the competition.

The only thing that mocks the competition are the dimensions of the ground at gmhba.

 

[Tigers_fan24]

Is this a pre emptive excuse incase Geelong somehow fall short again when it matters? Should be anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Pfft but that’s not fair, they should move the grand final to gmhba too if Geelong make it

 

[doppleganger]

Melbourne, Collingwood, Brisbane and Fremantle are each getting a home ground final.

1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th get a home state final.

You as a Swan should get the concept.

This year is same as 2016

Sydney minor premier, they earn the home state final. Unfortunately for the Swans, GWS finish 4th, so AFL schedule it at Stadium Australia, and reality being that no difference between 1st or 4th if both come from the same State.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Thank god it isn't in Geelong.
Watching games on TV that are in Geelong is terrible, the lighting seems wrong and the atmosphere seems non-existent.
This has to be played at the G for the thousands of people that watch it on TV>

That’s because it’s not a true oval mor akin to a velodrome

 

[mcgarnacle]

They are getting home state finals.
A lot of the time the finals venue in each state happens to also be their home ground.

Correct, they are getting home ground finals.

1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th get a home state final.

You as a Swan should get the concept.

This year is same as 2016

Sydney minor premier, they earn the home state final. Unfortunately for the Swans, GWS finish 4th, so AFL schedule it at Stadium Australia, and reality being that no difference between 1st or 4th if both come from the same State.

In 2022, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th are getting home ground finals.