No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 6

[Chief]

This is Part 6.

You can post in Part 7 here:

No Oppo Supporters - General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 7

Previous chat threads can be found here https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-5.1223668/ https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-6.1244786/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[killerspud]

During the night we saw lots of Tom, but Jaeger and CJ were also in shots. Correct me and maybe I wasn't looking for it but I didn't see one Geelong player the whole night - Were they present in some shape or form and I just miss it?

 

[grumbleguts]

During the night we saw lots of Tom, but Jaeger and CJ were also in shots. Correct me and maybe I wasn't looking for it but I didn't see one Geelong player the whole night - Were they present in some shape or form and I just miss it?

They would have been watching it with the umpires.

 

[Off The Couch]

During the night we saw lots of Tom, but Jaeger and CJ were also in shots. Correct me and maybe I wasn't looking for it but I didn't see one Geelong player the whole night - Were they present in some shape or form and I just miss it?

obviously given the conditions in Victoria, it would seem only players that were in with a chance were invited - Walsh, Merrett, Parish, Steele, Mitchell

given where cats finished on the ladder, it’s surprising there wasn’t at least one that didn’t poll well

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, so apologies if it has.

Tom Mitchell has moved into 9th spot in the all-time Brownlow votes tallies for Hawthorn.

Sam Mitchell 220
Leigh Matthews 202
Shane Crawford 159
John Platten 143
Luke Hodge 131
Jason Dunstall 129
Peter Knights 126
Michael Tuck 104
Tom Mitchell 88
John Hendrie 84
Lance Franklin 82
Peter Hudson 78

 

[Threadkilla]

During the night we saw lots of Tom, but Jaeger and CJ were also in shots. Correct me and maybe I wasn't looking for it but I didn't see one Geelong player the whole night - Were they present in some shape or form and I just miss it?

I saw Isaac and Hawkins (much to my displeasure) a couple of times. Think McEvoy was the one at home with the cowboy hat on too? Was nice to see Dangershow barely register a vote, he’d be seething.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Both Smith and Walsh are awesome young players. Personally I'd prefer Smith too, given he's proving himself to be huge big game player. Big game players are worth their weight in gold.

Bit rough. When is Walsh going to get that opportunity.
I dont think Bailey is in Walsh's league.

 

[TylerDurden]

Bit rough. When is Walsh going to get that opportunity.
I dont think Bailey is in Walsh's league.

Agree. Walsh another level.

 

[killerspud]

Bit rough. When is Walsh going to get that opportunity.
I dont think Bailey is in Walsh's league.

Completely different players - walsh is a pure mid like an Oliver whereas Smith is a forward mid like Dusty. Both excellent players. There are lots of mids floating around the league and Walsh is in the upper echelon of those. But a genuine forward mid is more damaging and harder to find for that reason alone I'd take Smith over Walsh. Especially if I had lots of mids like the dogs do

 

[Yardie]

He isn't a personality. It shows definitively that umpires know nothing about the game.

Now that Jordan is a personality can we redo 2014 to see how he should have gone?

 

[Milkshaker]

Had a little tenner on Walsh at $81 start of the season. Got excited for a bit!

 

[Jazzfan]

Completely different players - walsh is a pure mid like an Oliver whereas Smith is a forward mid like Dusty. Both excellent players. There are lots of mids floating around the league and Walsh is in the upper echelon of those. But a genuine forward mid is more damaging and harder to find for that reason alone I'd take Smith over Walsh. Especially if I had lots of mids like the dogs do

Smith is nothing like Dusty sorry mate. Very few are. I'd actually argue he is very much like his teammate, Treloar.

Smith has had an amazing finals series, 8 goals in three games, from a wing. One less then he kicked during the regular season, crazy.

But... Walsh actually kicked more goals during the home and away season then Smith. And he basically carries a team, as opposed to being 5 or 6 deep in a midfield unit.

It's not even a debate in my opinion. Walsh is generational.

 

[jameses]

How anyone would pick Smith over Walsh just blows my mind. A couple of good finals games by Smith does not diminsh the fact that Walsh is streaks ahead of Smith.

 

[Dewnior]

Completely different players - walsh is a pure mid like an Oliver whereas Smith is a forward mid like Dusty. Both excellent players. There are lots of mids floating around the league and Walsh is in the upper echelon of those. But a genuine forward mid is more damaging and harder to find for that reason alone I'd take Smith over Walsh. Especially if I had lots of mids like the dogs do

Walsh is the best line breaking mid in the comp. You don't need a player like Smith when you have Walsh. Walsh win's hard ball's with ease then runs and carries and delivers onto the chest of whichever forward he chooses 99 times out of 100.

 

[KermitJagger]

Walsh is carrying the Carlton midfield, Smith is essentially playing 4th or 5th banana in the Doggies midfield. I'd take either, but if both were available you'd take Walsh no question.

 

[Stratton24]

How anyone would pick Smith over Walsh just blows my mind. A couple of good finals games by Smith does not diminsh the fact that Walsh is streaks ahead of Smith.

Projecting for the future - remember the "experts" rated Rhys Palmer ahead of Cyril in 2008

 

[Stratton24]

Walsh is the best line breaking mid in the comp. You don't need a player like Smith when you have Walsh. Walsh win's hard ball's with ease then runs and carries and delivers onto the chest of whichever forward he chooses 99 times out of 100.

99 times of 100?
His kicking efficiency is 63% ranked 358 in the AFL - below Sam Frost.

 

[Off The Couch]

Let’s just hope that Walsh doesn’t end up like Curnow and Cripps after having carried a team for so many years

 

[KermitJagger]

99 times of 100?
His kicking efficiency is 63% ranked 358 in the AFL - below Sam Frost.

Or, equal with Bailey Smith and above Scott Pendlebury and Zach Merrett?

Position and pressure impacts kicking efficiency. Stats in isolation never tell the full story. The 99 times out of 100 part was obviously hyperbole.

 

[jameses]

Projecting for the future - remember the "experts" rated Rhys Palmer ahead of Cyril in 2008

Walsh is kind of like Rioli in a way. Everyone attempted to compare the new hot indigenous small forward to Rioli, but none were able to sustain the performances to make the comparisons worth while.

Walsh, like Rioli, is the benchmark and others will always be compared to him. First it was Rozee, now it's Smith. Next year it will be someone else.

I think Smith will be a great player (so will Rozee), but Walsh is a generational talent.

 

[cryptor]

Mitchell's votes

11 games before the bye: 5 votes
11 games after the bye: 20 votes

Extraordinary pace in the second half

Imagine a 40 vote season next year

 

[Brishawk]

Or, equal with Bailey Smith and above Scott Pendlebury and Zach Merrett?

Position and pressure impacts kicking efficiency. Stats in isolation never tell the full story. The 99 times out of 100 part was obviously hyperbole.

Probably a better comparison would be Macrae. Both get it in a contest around 38.5% of the time. Macrae has a kicking eff of 64.3%. So Walsh in the ball park at very least and being in a bad team has got to hurt your efficiency

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Miller (17 votes) and McRae (14 votes) with the reverse Judd medal for players who really should have polled a lot more.

Add McCluggage to that list of players that were ignored by the umpires. Jarryd Lyons got a lot of votes for the Lions and McCluggage barely cracked double figures. Weird voting.

On the other hand, congratulations are due to David Mundy. Finished the count equal 11th with 20 votes after turning 36 a month ago. Just happens to be his career best return for Brownlow medal votes, pipping his previous best of 19 votes in 2015.

Votes for Hawthorn players:

Player	Total votes	Breakdown
Tom Mitchell	25	3 votes - 6; 2 votes - 3; 1 vote - 1
Jaeger O'Meara	11	3 votes - 1; 2 votes - 2; 1 vote - 4
Chad Wingard	8	3 votes - 1; 2 votes - 2; 1 vote - 1
Jacob Koschitzke	3	3 votes - 1
Jonathon Ceglar	2	2 votes - 1
Changkuoth Jiath	2	2 votes - 1
Will Day	1	1 vote - 1

 

[KermitJagger]

Probably a better comparison would be Macrae. Both get it in a contest around 38.5% of the time. Macrae has a kicking eff of 64.3%. So Walsh in the ball park at very least and being in a bad team has got to hurt your efficiency

Yeah there are better comparisons, was just making other comparisons to show that the "worse than Frost" thing is silly.

Walsh also takes more challenging kicks, but it's hard to quantify that - Champion Data have their kick rating stats but they're not publicly available.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Bit rough. When is Walsh going to get that opportunity.
I dont think Bailey is in Walsh's league.

I'm aware he hasn't had the chance yet, I said that in the Smith v Walsh thread. Conversely Smith is the sixth midfielder in their rotation, he's playing as a winger/HFF. He hasn't had a chance to play as a true centre mid as yet like Walsh.

 

[Big Hotdog]

99 times of 100?
His kicking efficiency is 63% ranked 358 in the AFL - below Sam Frost.

The point still stands. Walsh is the engine at Carlton. Smith is like the spark plug on the 5th cylinder of a V8 at the dogs.