No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[cs61]

A challenging read, but have never been more solid in my belief that stripping away the figureheads was the best thing for the club. A lot of the more critical voices around the handover have been proven wrong, in my opinion, and I haven't been happier with the trajectory of the club in over a decade.

Sam Mitchell was cornered into rapidly turning over our list to the point where only 9 players from our Rd 23 2021 side are still at Hawthorn and only 7 played on the weekend just gone. He's managed to do that without handouts, while prioritising younger players and bringing the best footy possible out of them.

I often think about what could have happened and how long our peak could have been extended if we'd just kept hold of Jordan Lewis and Luke Hodge for a bit longer - Geelong's flag put paid to the belief that players over 30 need to be transitioned into retirement - but I can't help but be happy that things panned out the way they did, even if it meant some pain.

Clarkson needed to go, Kennett needed to go, Reeves needed to go. I'm glad we've moved on.

Just reflecting on it all, Mitchell has clearly done a great job from a strategy, development and game plan perspective, but if you consider the pressure he has been under from day 1 it has been a phenomenal effort for a rookie coach. The utter hysteria about the botched 'succession plan' meant rather than celebrate his appointment he started from a mini crisis. The 'Racism' report was a huge thing for him to have to navigate so early on in his career, and he and the club couldn't have done more in the position they were in. The 'tanking' farce and heat he was under after 2 rounds last year, and he stood in the coalface with Wilson, Cornes, Hutchy etc questioning the club's integrity to his face. He just held firm and took it all in his stride and had utter confidence in the clubs strategy and direction. In good hands.

 

[The hands of stone]

We've probably all heard whispers about what was going on at that time .
No surprise how the team was performing.
Sounds a shambles .

A large chunk of clubs function like that full time .
We've been lucky for the most part .

 

[peetoo]

A challenging read, but have never been more solid in my belief that stripping away the figureheads was the best thing for the club. A lot of the more critical voices around the handover have been proven wrong, in my opinion, and I haven't been happier with the trajectory of the club in over a decade.

Sam Mitchell was cornered into rapidly turning over our list to the point where only 9 players from our Rd 23 2021 side are still at Hawthorn and only 7 played on the weekend just gone. He's managed to do that without handouts, while prioritising younger players and bringing the best footy possible out of them.

I often think about what could have happened and how long our peak could have been extended if we'd just kept hold of Jordan Lewis and Luke Hodge for a bit longer - Geelong's flag put paid to the belief that players over 30 need to be transitioned into retirement - but I can't help but be happy that things panned out the way they did, even if it meant some pain.

Clarkson needed to go, Kennett needed to go, Reeves needed to go. I'm glad we've moved on.

Best thing is who replaced Clarkson was taken out of Kennett wheelhouse

 

[peetoo]

Just reflecting on it all, Mitchell has clearly done a great job from a strategy, development and game plan perspective, but if you consider the pressure he has been under from day 1 it has been a phenomenal effort for a rookie coach. The utter hysteria about the botched 'succession plan' meant rather than celebrate his appointment he started from a mini crisis. The 'Racism' report was a huge thing for him to have to navigate so early on in his career, and he and the club couldn't have done more in the position they were in. The 'tanking' farce and heat he was under after 2 rounds last year, and he stood in the coalface with Wilson, Cornes, Hutchy etc questioning the club's integrity to his face. He just held firm and took it all in his stride and had utter confidence in the clubs strategy and direction. In good hands.

The tanking accusations were in light of Harley Reid. As it became clear hawks wouldn’t be last it all calmed down

 

[peetoo]

I reckon the authors main source here is Graham wright.

He wanted the relative peace of Collingwood? And his first challenge was to move Buckley on? And it all was done civilly unlike at Hawthorn? Respectful? Really?

I’m really not arguing the happenings, but some of this sort of stuff, the language shifts gears significantly


Things like losing Ryan Burton

3

Ryan Burton

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

277.3

4star

D

16.8

4star

K

12.3

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

277.3

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.2

4star

, oh and some guy Called Will day was recruited too.

Just like when Clarko and the team win the 2008 flag, at least half that team were on the books when Clarko arrived

 

[KermitJagger]

Davies ban upheld:



I truly do not understand how this is justification for upholding that suspension. As though the Tribunal expects players to know that they're going to be second to the ball before making a contest, and in the .1 of a second they have to realise that they're second to the ball they're either to simply slam into the other player face first without defending themselves or... teleport out of the way?

Rarely have I seen a ban upheld using justification that you can actually understand when re-watching the incident in real time.

 

[NewkTheLot]

Davies ban upheld:



I truly do not understand how this is justification for upholding that suspension. As though the Tribunal expects players to know that they're going to be second to the ball before making a contest, and in the .1 of a second they have to realise that they're second to the ball they're either to simply slam into the other player face first without defending themselves or... teleport out of the way?

Rarely have I seen a ban upheld using justification that you can actually understand when re-watching the incident in real time.

I watched this game and thought Davies’ technique was textbook. You can’t possibly expect a player going for the ball to realise in a fraction of a second that they might not be first there and change position.

100 percent in agreement with you here

 

[Nugett]

As a KPF he will need to kick 4+ goals, that or get the token nomination in round 23.

Or come off the bench 1 game wearing hoops . Hell might even get a few dodgy frees as well…

 

[Nugett]

It’s only a matter of time before a player gets done for farting against the wind, such is the lunacy of the tribunal.

 

[Sixpence]

Davies ban upheld:



I truly do not understand how this is justification for upholding that suspension. As though the Tribunal expects players to know that they're going to be second to the ball before making a contest, and in the .1 of a second they have to realise that they're second to the ball they're either to simply slam into the other player face first without defending themselves or... teleport out of the way?

Rarely have I seen a ban upheld using justification that you can actually understand when re-watching the incident in real time.

I don't understand how any of them got 3 weeks? Especially when you compare to Danger's tackle on Walsh which got no weeks. It's ****ing corrupt.

 

[Nugett]

A challenging read, but have never been more solid in my belief that stripping away the figureheads was the best thing for the club. A lot of the more critical voices around the handover have been proven wrong, in my opinion, and I haven't been happier with the trajectory of the club in over a decade.

Sam Mitchell was cornered into rapidly turning over our list to the point where only 9 players from our Rd 23 2021 side are still at Hawthorn and only 7 played on the weekend just gone. He's managed to do that without handouts, while prioritising younger players and bringing the best footy possible out of them.

I often think about what could have happened and how long our peak could have been extended if we'd just kept hold of Jordan Lewis and Luke Hodge for a bit longer - Geelong's flag put paid to the belief that players over 30 need to be transitioned into retirement - but I can't help but be happy that things panned out the way they did, even if it meant some pain.

Clarkson needed to go, Kennett needed to go, Reeves needed to go. I'm glad we've moved on.

Looking back, the decline probably started in 2016. If we look off field, and at the board, we went from Andrew Newbold to Richard Garvey as president, who only lasted 2 years, before resigning the presidency back to Kennett. Under Kennettts second reign, he was more tweeting about local politics rather than presiding over the club. Stuart Fox the CEO, went to the MCC in 2017, where after a long drawn out process we appointed Tracey Gaudry who was sacked 5 months into the job, where we then appointed Justin Reeves. In 2017 Chris Fagan left to coach Brisbane, where Jason Burt was then appointed as Football Operations manager, and then being replaced by Graham Wright a year later. So in a 3 year period there was no real structure at the top, as it too unstable. It would have been about that time that Clarkson went “Rogue”

When we look at the players that were moved on or pushed at the end of 2016 Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis were traded out for peanuts. Brian Lake was forced to retire the year before. In 2017 Hodge announced his retirement mid season, than changing his mind and got traded to Brisbane for basically nothing. In 2018 Cyril retired (strong possibility due to racism).
In 2019 Roughhead was forced to retire, where as stated in the article it was his team mates that wanted to give him a send off game and not Clarkson. Grant Birshall was forced to explore his options and headed to Brisbane.then in 2020 Smith went to Geelong, James Frawley was delisted. Then Covid hit, isolation confinement, you can understand the players frustrations.

You can also understand the breakdown between the coach and the board. During that time I think Clarkson lost a lot of loyalty from the players. Also from that time Clarkson lost any loyalty he had from the board, due to constant changes that kept occurring, especially with Kennett, where there was a mutual public dislike for each other.

Now both Kennett and Clarkson have moved on, I think we are in a much better position than what we were. Sam has brought back Roughie as a list manager, brought in David Hale as a forward coach. Past players that were thrown out like garbage are coming back mainly Jordan Lewis. From media reports Sam has reached out to Cyril for reconciliation attempts. Has the playing group playing for each other. I don’t think that Sam will be as ruthless as Clarko was in the end.

On the other spectrum, Gowers does the odd media interview, while working in the background in sustaining the club, and not involving himself in local politics on twitter. Last year, amid Barrett’s tanking claims, would stress the support the board has for Sam and the direction he is going in. With Gowers and Mitchell at the helm, I feel that the club is heading in the right direction.

 

[Toasted]

No one could stand up to Clarko then. Kennett, was many things, but would've been one of the very few who had the balls to sack the bloke.

I’ve said it before, but losing Fagan was the turning point. Everyone else seemed either scared or in awe of Clarko. Fagan was there almost from the start, so we wasn’t intimidated and certainly wasn’t drinking the Clarko coolaid. He seemed to be the voice of reason/opposition when Clarko went off the deep end.
With Fagan gone, it all turned into the Clarko show.

 

[arupist]

I thought Davies was the only one that MIGHT have drawn a suspension as it was front on head contact. He was unlucky, though. Not worth 3 weeks.

The other two, however, were just .... I have no words. The game is officially f&%ked. Cameron and Bedford can rightfully feel victimised.

May as well play Oz-tag. Grab the yellow velcro strip and get a free kick.

 

[KermitJagger]

I thought Davies was the only one that MIGHT have drawn a suspension as it was front on head contact. He was unlucky, though. Not worth 3 weeks.

The other two, however, were just .... I have no words. The game is officially f&%ked. Cameron and Bedford can rightfully feel victimised.

May as well play Oz-tag. Grab the yellow velcro strip and get a free kick.

Indeed, might have to apologise to cryptor and say that if these are the suspensions that are going to be upheld then the fairness aspect of the Brownlow should 100% be reviewed.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

These suspensions are because the media weren't hard enough on the stupid suspension handed out to Sicily.
Everyone said "it's nonsense, his opponent was injured, he could've done more"
Those who said that more tackles will be suspended for even less were laughed out of the room

Here we are...

 

[Walshawk]

Indeed, might have to apologise to cryptor and say that if these are the suspensions that are going to be upheld then the fairness aspect of the Brownlow should 100% be reviewed.

You don’t have to change the rule that the ump s must vote for the best and fairest player each game, just that you can still win if suspended.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Between 2016-2022 we were no longer the Hawthorn Football Club - we were the Clarkson Football Club. Before those few posters who seem to think Clarkson is a infallible deity - yes he was a great coach and we should all be grateful for the four flags. But those flags did not entitle him to start running the club like his own bloody fiefdom. You only have to look at the stark contrasts of recruitment once McKenzie and McCartney were able to run their respective departments with coach input, not dictatorial oversight, to see why a footy club has to operate in silos. North have made the mistake of drinking the Clarko bathwater and allowing him to install his own yes men all over the club.

 

[Yardie]

Between 2016-2022 we were no longer the Hawthorn Football Club - we were the Clarkson Football Club. Before those few posters who seem to think Clarkson is a infallible deity - yes he was a great coach and we should all be grateful for the four flags. But those flags did not entitle him to start running the club like his own bloody fiefdom. You only have to look at the stark contrasts of recruitment once McKenzie and McCartney were able to run their respective departments with coach input, not dictatorial oversight, to see why a footy club has to operate in silos. North have made the mistake of drinking the Clarko bathwater and allowing him to install his own yes men all over the club.

I always wondered why Gaudry came in so bullish about not bowing to anyone. Think she may have seen the problem early with Fagan leaving.

 

[KermitJagger]

Am I wrong that a Tribunal should not be "based on prioritising the health and safety of our players"?

It's a body to settle disputes. If it has a remit to prioritise the health and safety of players over actually determining whether the incident falls inside or outside of the rules of the AFL it's more of a Kangaroo Court.

You could certainly argue that it is the remit of the MRP, but not the Tribunal.

 

[Bugs1977]

Between 2016-2022 we were no longer the Hawthorn Football Club - we were the Clarkson Football Club. Before those few posters who seem to think Clarkson is a infallible deity - yes he was a great coach and we should all be grateful for the four flags. But those flags did not entitle him to start running the club like his own bloody fiefdom. You only have to look at the stark contrasts of recruitment once McKenzie and McCartney were able to run their respective departments with coach input, not dictatorial oversight, to see why a footy club has to operate in silos. North have made the mistake of drinking the Clarko bathwater and allowing him to install his own yes men all over the club.

If you cast your mind back Clarko himself was openly quoted as saying that he needs others to keep him check. Pretty sure this was around about the time Fages who used to be that guy moved on to Brisbane and it being Wright who then became the one to do so. I'm pretty sure the quote was after one of his many indiscretions but I'm not sure which one.

 

[Sixpence]

Am I wrong that a Tribunal should not be "based on prioritising the health and safety of our players"?

It's a body to settle disputes. If it has a remit to prioritise the health and safety of players over actually determining whether the incident falls inside or outside of the rules of the AFL it's more of a Kangaroo Court.

You could certainly argue that it is the remit of the MRP, but not the Tribunal.

Between this comment and the one about umpiring being in the best state, Dillon is clearly living on another planet.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

If you cast your mind back Clarko himself was openly quoted as saying that he needs others to keep him check. Pretty sure this was around about the time Fages who used to be that guy moved on to Brisbane and it being Wright who then became the one to do so. I'm pretty sure the quote was after one of his many indiscretions but I'm not sure which one.

Said it in 2008 too. Said he needed hardwick in the box on grand final day because he would've benched dew

 

[Uncle Baby Billy]

Hello all
I’m over from the west for the week. My two sons are very keen to head to training.
Does anyone happen to have dates and times by any chance?
Thank you kindly

 

[Changa10]

He went well though. Must have it was his debut.

Nah, he's had three pretty decent games in a row. I'd love Calsher to get a nomination, but Lawson deserved this one.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Nah, he's had three pretty decent games in a row. I'd love Calsher to get a nomination, but Lawson deserved this one.

View attachment 2050718

Stats mean nothing when you play the 2 toughest positions at AFL level being a small forward and a key forward. The fantastic defensive efforts of Calsher and the Wiz should add more weight to their cases as well. Racking up stats as a peripheral player means bugger all to me!