No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[Crankyhawk]

Aggressively insulting anyone is never acceptable.

However, you're trying to draw a moral equivalence between, on one hand, voluminous and aggressive online insults of women like Edwards and Meadows, who themselves were politely attempting to educate people - errant men in particular - on what is and isn't acceptable in terms of behaviour towards women in modern society; and, on the other hand, an isolated and comparatively minor rebuke by Connolly of Credlin, who herself has never been hesitant when it comes to using her relatively privileged position to aggressively insult minorities, often on the back of disinformation.

Do you see the difference between the two?

Disagree on "agressive insult" not being acceptable, I think it is an acceptable retaliation if the other person has done it first.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

We did change coaches in the offseason - has that made a difference?

As a hawks aflw insider - a lot of the girls are glowing of what Webster has brought to the club. The biggest thing is that he's treating them like footballers, not women's footballers.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

I'm not following & don't care to, but what's everyone's issue here?

Is it that he swore (f*** right off) or that Peta Credlin is female?

Would it be equally unacceptable had he said the same to Peter Cradlin, his local lawn mower bloke?

Was Credlin offended & raised it as bullying etc. in the media, or is this just us discussing what some perceive as inconsistent or contradictory behaviour?

Excellent points.

I can’t recall her being offended by it or calling it out. But does that make it ok?

All these people hammering the GWS players for tasteless costumes, sprouting garbage like the standard you walk past is the standard you allow and kicking up a stink because someone was offended, find, and defend Rohan Connelly actually verbally abuse a lady as ok, why?

So if she wasn’t offended the abuse is ok? If the behaviour is wrong it’s wrong regardless and this is why I’m just asking the morally superior among us when it’s ok.

But I’ve slowly figured it out.

When they are conservative and deliver a message I don’t agree with so I’ll swear at her, abuse her and label the message as disinformation.

 

[Hawthorn1971]

Excellent points.

I can’t recall her being offended by it or calling it out. But does that make it ok?

All these people hammering the GWS players for tasteless costumes, sprouting garbage like the standard you walk past is the standard you allow and kicking up a stink because someone was offended, find, and defend Rohan Connelly actually verbally abuse a lady as ok, why?

So if she wasn’t offended the abuse is ok? If the behaviour is wrong it’s wrong regardless and this is why I’m just asking the morally superior among us when it’s ok.

But I’ve slowly figured it out.

When they are conservative and deliver a message I don’t agree with so I’ll swear at her, abuse her and label the message as disinformation.

Spot on. If you spend time looking through Rohan Connelly's Twitter, you'll see what a gigantic unhinged flog of a bloke he is. It astounds me people would quote him as an example of decency. And there are plenty more like him...

 

[Blackhawk42]

A lot festers in male only settings. The GWS boys likely wouldn’t have gone nearly as far as they did with women around.

That’s why it’s up to men to call out this problematic behaviour before it normalises within the group. Then gets spread outside the group.

Can we please acknowledge the leap required to get to that last part? It's always lost in discussions like these ones.

Are we going to solve criminals by banning blokes having Mad Monday?
The 'leap' I'm referring to is the suggestion that generally well adjusted men in the 20's and 30's may not be capable of separating 'fun/skit/banter' with actual reality.

The 'male only settings' comment concerns me as well. We are living through a male mental health crisis. Whether you are scathing towards the players actions or attempting to defend their right to act inappropriately in a private setting, it doesn't change the fact that getting friends together and sharing experiences is something we should be promoting, and not painting negatively.

Yes, we should be promoting POSITIVE behaviour within those settings, but the constant scrutiny about anything loosely resembling a 'boys being boys' attitude is only going to further confuse and impact our young men as they navigate their early 20's and beyond.

We are raising children differently to the old forms of parental punishments techniques.
I personally feel that getting the players together in this situation and talking through the worst parts of the indiscretions, and allowing them to acknowledge themselves what were and weren't the best ideas to be the most appropriate course of action.

Instead, now it feels like we are punishing our adults how we used to punish children, but children who earn enough money to line the leagues pockets as part of the sanction.

 

[Yardie]

Can we please acknowledge the leap required to get to that last part? It's always lost in discussions like these ones.

Are we going to solve criminals by banning blokes having Mad Monday?
The 'leap' I'm referring to is the suggestion that generally well adjusted men in the 20's and 30's may not be capable of separating 'fun/skit/banter' with actual reality.

The 'male only settings' comment concerns me as well. We are living through a male mental health crisis. Whether you are scathing towards the players actions or attempting to defend their right to act inappropriately in a private setting, it doesn't change the fact that getting friends together and sharing experiences is something we should be promoting, and not painting negatively.

Yes, we should be promoting POSITIVE behaviour within those settings, but the constant scrutiny about anything loosely resembling a 'boys being boys' attitude is only going to further confuse and impact our young men as they navigate their early 20's and beyond.

We are raising children differently to the old forms of parental punishments techniques.
I personally feel that getting the players together in this situation and talking through the worst parts of the indiscretions, and allowing them to acknowledge themselves what were and weren't the best ideas to be the most appropriate course of action.

Instead, now it feels like we are punishing our adults how we used to punish children, but children who earn enough money to line the leagues pockets as part of the sanction.

If my son was involved in the GWS stuff (and I'm sure he wouldn't have been), he would be getting an absolute dressing down from both me and his mother that would pale in comparison to what the AFL has done.

 

[rei154]

Excellent points.

I can’t recall her being offended by it or calling it out. But does that make it ok?

All these people hammering the GWS players for tasteless costumes, sprouting garbage like the standard you walk past is the standard you allow and kicking up a stink because someone was offended, find, and defend Rohan Connelly actually verbally abuse a lady as ok, why?

So if she wasn’t offended the abuse is ok? If the behaviour is wrong it’s wrong regardless and this is why I’m just asking the morally superior among us when it’s ok.

But I’ve slowly figured it out.

When they are conservative and deliver a message I don’t agree with so I’ll swear at her, abuse her and label the message as disinformation.

It's actually insane how you can't see the difference between someone getting told to **** off, and people making jokes out of rape.
Stop trying to make this about conservatives v non-conservatives, that isn't the issue here.

 

[rei154]

Can we please acknowledge the leap required to get to that last part? It's always lost in discussions like these ones.

Are we going to solve criminals by banning blokes having Mad Monday?
The 'leap' I'm referring to is the suggestion that generally well adjusted men in the 20's and 30's may not be capable of separating 'fun/skit/banter' with actual reality.

The 'male only settings' comment concerns me as well. We are living through a male mental health crisis. Whether you are scathing towards the players actions or attempting to defend their right to act inappropriately in a private setting, it doesn't change the fact that getting friends together and sharing experiences is something we should be promoting, and not painting negatively.

Yes, we should be promoting POSITIVE behaviour within those settings, but the constant scrutiny about anything loosely resembling a 'boys being boys' attitude is only going to further confuse and impact our young men as they navigate their early 20's and beyond.

We are raising children differently to the old forms of parental punishments techniques.
I personally feel that getting the players together in this situation and talking through the worst parts of the indiscretions, and allowing them to acknowledge themselves what were and weren't the best ideas to be the most appropriate course of action.

Instead, now it feels like we are punishing our adults how we used to punish children, but children who earn enough money to line the leagues pockets as part of the sanction.

Just curious- can you see how in this instance, due to the negative behaviour that occurred in a male only space, the boys are copping it because their behaviour was entirely inappropriate?
"Boys being boys" has had detrimental societal impacts for an incredibly long time. and the notion of this behaviour being accepted in private leading to detrimental impacts in society is is something that is widely acknowledged.

I actually agree that we need to have more positive environments where men can get together, but you can't tell me that the male mental health crisis is directly linked to men having the freedom to make light of rape.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Just curious- can you see how in this instance, due to the negative behaviour that occurred in a male only space, the boys are copping it because their behaviour was entirely inappropriate?
"Boys being boys" has had detrimental societal impacts for an incredibly long time. and the notion of this behaviour being accepted in private leading to detrimental impacts in society is is something that is widely acknowledged.

I actually agree that we need to have more positive environments where men can get together, but you can't tell me that the male mental health crisis is directly linked to men having the freedom to make light of rape.

Of course not. It's absolutely a broader issue.

I may not have explained it as succinctly as I'd intended, but I was using that as a 'leap' example, in the same way that suggesting the exact scenario that played out at the GWS event means their behaviour suddenly 'normalises' sexual assault and rape.

The villains in the situation were the 'celebrities' the players were making fun of.

Whilst I acknowledge that some male-centric echo chambers could potentially result in somebody being groomed into a mindset where sexual assault is justifiable, those chambers (IMO) exist quite far away from the event we're all in here discussing.

Having the broad conversation about appropriate behaviour is absolutely fine.
Coming down hard with sanctions on some drunk footballers who performed a sketch show in a private setting is just... I dunno. It's beyond what I'd consider reasonable. But maybe that's just me.

 

[extractasam]

Wtaf are our boys up to in the US.

Dumb as

Ginnivans story

 

[rei154]

Of course not. It's absolutely a broader issue.

I may not have explained it as succinctly as I'd intended, but I was using that as a 'leap' example, in the same way that suggesting the exact scenario that played out at the GWS event means their behaviour suddenly 'normalises' sexual assault and rape.

The villains in the situation were the 'celebrities' the players were making fun of.

Whilst I acknowledge that some male-centric echo chambers could potentially result in somebody being groomed into a mindset where sexual assault is justifiable, those chambers (IMO) exist quite far away from the event we're all in here discussing.

Having the broad conversation about appropriate behaviour is absolutely fine.
Coming down hard with sanctions on some drunk footballers who performed a sketch show in a private setting is just... I dunno. It's beyond what I'd consider reasonable. But maybe that's just me.

Blackhawk42 I hope I haven't sounded too harsh in my responses to you, I think you make your points well and I can understand where you're coming from.
I disagree with your points around the impact of the skits- I disagree that professionals being seen making light of these situations is too removed from the male-centric echo chambers, and I disagree that "some drunk footballers" is a term that should lead to any lighter punishment. I disagree that they were in a private setting (considering there were multiple staff at the event who have a right to a safe work environment, and that it was a GWS sanctioned/managed event).


I suppose from my perspective we've just moved further down the conversation and I have significantly less tolerance for what was normalised behaviour previously.
Gendered violence in Aus, as well as male mental health are two things that I believe are causally linked and I think we need to be doing anything and everything to mitigate these societal blights.

 

[HedgeFund]

Of course not. It's absolutely a broader issue.

Having the broad conversation about appropriate behaviour is absolutely fine.
Coming down hard with sanctions on some drunk footballers who performed a sketch show in a private setting is just... I dunno. It's beyond what I'd consider reasonable. But maybe that's just me.

I think it’s just you.

Consider this.

If there was some “couple” like a Nazi soldier and an Auschwitz prisoner - but it didn’t leak out - would that be okay?

Or perhaps a colonial/UK soldier and an indigenous man in chains. Would that be okay if it didn’t leak out?

We all know who the villains are, and there’s no way anyone would make fun of it.

How’s making fun of gendered sexual violence different to the above?

 

[Blackhawk42]

Blackhawk42 I hope I haven't sounded too harsh in my responses to you, I think you make your points well and I can understand where you're coming from.
I disagree with your points around the impact of the skits- I disagree that professionals being seen making light of these situations is too removed from the male-centric echo chambers, and I disagree that "some drunk footballers" is a term that should lead to any lighter punishment. I disagree that they were in a private setting (considering there were multiple staff at the event who have a right to a safe work environment, and that it was a GWS sanctioned/managed event).


I suppose from my perspective we've just moved further down the conversation and I have significantly less tolerance for what was normalised behaviour previously.
Gendered violence in Aus, as well as male mental health are two things that I believe are causally linked and I think we need to be doing anything and everything to mitigate these societal blights.

You haven't at all. I thoroughly enjoy discussing sensitive topics when people are doing so respectfully and not blatantly attempting to ignore thought-out responses from the opposing viewpoint.

And I can absolutely agree with you on that final point!

 

[bigmaxi]

As a hawks aflw insider - a lot of the girls are glowing of what Webster has brought to the club. The biggest thing is that he's treating them like footballers, not women's footballers.

100% agree, they want to be respected as footballers and that is what he has done. Even his interviews post game reflect his respect, footballers first!
If only the AFL could step up to the plate too, a better fixture with better umpires would be a great start.
While my expectations of the commentary will always be low, to avoid undue disappointment.

 

[unitedhawk]

I wish people would stop using the term "drunk footballers" as some kind of excuse for their antics.

Their costumes and skits were planned in advance of them getting drunk. They knew what they were doing.

The fact that they somehow thought it was OK to do what they did, even in a private setting, indicates there is a whole lot more education required - both for the players involved and, judging by some of the comments here, the wider community in general.

Ask the women in your life - mothers, wives, girlfriends, sisters, daughters - for their opinion on the matter. The reaction of the GWS Women's team might provide a clue about the response you could expect.

 

[H00t]

Can we please acknowledge the leap required to get to that last part? It's always lost in discussions like these ones.

Are we going to solve criminals by banning blokes having Mad Monday?
The 'leap' I'm referring to is the suggestion that generally well adjusted men in the 20's and 30's may not be capable of separating 'fun/skit/banter' with actual reality.

The 'male only settings' comment concerns me as well. We are living through a male mental health crisis. Whether you are scathing towards the players actions or attempting to defend their right to act inappropriately in a private setting, it doesn't change the fact that getting friends together and sharing experiences is something we should be promoting, and not painting negatively.

Yes, we should be promoting POSITIVE behaviour within those settings, but the constant scrutiny about anything loosely resembling a 'boys being boys' attitude is only going to further confuse and impact our young men as they navigate their early 20's and beyond.

We are raising children differently to the old forms of parental punishments techniques.
I personally feel that getting the players together in this situation and talking through the worst parts of the indiscretions, and allowing them to acknowledge themselves what were and weren't the best ideas to be the most appropriate course of action.

Instead, now it feels like we are punishing our adults how we used to punish children, but children who earn enough money to line the leagues pockets as part of the sanction.

The AFL has kicked out 3 players in the last few years due to inappropriate behaviour towards women.

Couple this with the domestic violence in Australia. The number of women being killed by an intimate partner. Plus from the Personal Safety Survery from the ABS, 1 in 5 (2.2 million) women in Australia have experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

It’s a big assumption to assume everyone is treating it as a joke when it’s so prevalent in society and people hide some very dark thoughts behind “jokes”.

This is a massive problem in society and something like what the GWS players have done needs to be stamped down upon.

There is the problem with men’s mental health in Australia and that definitely needs to be looked at. That comes from fostering positive male groups and role models for men to look up to and join. It also means stamping down on cases like where the group is very much in the wrong.

 

[kirbatron]

Wtaf are our boys up to in the US.

Dumb as

Ginnivans story
View attachment 2148068

orange font?

supporting Jackson Ross ' lots of them go every year

 

[extractasam]

orange font?

supporting Jackson Ross ' lots of them go every year

Deleted since but uploaded a series of videos of himself absolutely blind, smoking cigars with one of the players helmets on lol.

Looked kinda trash tbh

 

[CHUBBSS]

Deleted since but uploaded a series of videos of himself absolutely blind, smoking cigars with one of the players helmets on lol.

Looked kinda trash tbh

Let them cook

 

[houdinihuddo]

Wtaf are our boys up to in the US.

Dumb as

Ginnivans story
View attachment 2148068

I sincerely hope the picture doesn’t indicate WCE made the right decision choosing to take our 2025 draft picks.
Not a good look!

 

[Hrvat Hawks]

Wtaf are our boys up to in the US.

Dumb as

Ginnivans story
View attachment 2148068

Relax Karen

 

[Mitchell Madness]

100% agree, they want to be respected as footballers and that is what he has done. Even his interviews post game reflect his respect, footballers first!
If only the AFL could step up to the plate too, a better fixture with better umpires would be a great start.
While my expectations of the commentary will always be low, to avoid undue disappointment.

Also what I should note, Sam Mitchell's influence on the women.
He has been going to the women's training during the mens off-season and reviewing it from the grandstand.
Have been nearby at several conversations on aflw matchday where he is discussing with the linescoaches things he has noticed, and not just "that player" it is the player by nickname, things he would do to get them into the game etc.