Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 3

[cats_09]

Here's 2024 Provisional AFL Draft Order

Cheers to Lore for their hard work in setting this up, and making it available for all users on BF to use and keep track of the picks ahead of the upcoming draft - and please practice patience grasshoppers if it's not updated in the immediate aftermath of completed trade





I'll also sticky this post to ensure it's easily accessible for discussion of our hypothetical trader


Also,

2024 Draft and Trade Period Key Dates​

Oct 17 to Nov 8: Pick swap window
Nov 1 to Nov 8: Delisted free agency period
Nov 20-21: Telstra AFL Draft
Nov 22: Telstra Pre-Season Draft and Rookie Draft

 

[iameviljez]

That was a remarkable day. We were completely destroyed by injury. Take a look at the team we put out there.

AFL Tables - Carlton v Geelong - Sun, 4-Apr-2004 2:10 PM - Match Stats

We weren't 'destroyed' by injury as such. Losing Ben Graham was big, but King would never be the same player again anyway, Riccardi was past his best, and Milburn wasn't yet the player he would become.

We just didn't have any other really experienced players.

Footballers play so, so much longer now.

 

[iameviljez]

If you look at our gun 1999 draft Corey, Chapman and Ling all made the top 10 of the B&F in their 3rd seasons (2002). Enright likely would have but missed a chunk of the season with injury and finished top 5 the next year.

The 2001 draft is a similar story. Ablett finished 4th in his second season. Bartel finished 7th in his 3rd season. Kelly looked a star before getting injured in his 3rd season.

Two major differences now, I think:
- At Geelong specifically, it is bloody hard to get a game. We lost a heap of older mids around the late 90s/early 2000s, and had room to spare. Max Holmes would have been spending 90% game time in the centre; Knevitt would be playing 16 games/year.
- More generally, with footballers lasting so much longer, it is tougher for young players. Twenty years ago, guys like Dangerfield, Zorko and Gawn were not playing at all, let alone playing good footy. Guys like Neale and Cameron were past their peak - now that's not the case any more. The competition is harder than it has ever been for young players.

 

[Footy Smarts]

We weren't 'destroyed' by injury as such. Losing Ben Graham was big, but King would never be the same player again anyway, Riccardi was past his best, and Milburn wasn't yet the player he would become.

We just didn't have any other really experienced players.

Footballers play so, so much longer now.

You missed Sanderson too who was coming off finishing 3rd in our B&F the year before.

I think the lesson from that day is not to read too much into 1 game especially when the team is one of the youngest ever fielded.

The year before that Ling, Ablett, Enright, Rooke, Chapman and Corey all finished top 10 in the B&F as under 23s. Scarlett won it as a 23-24 year old.

We weren't a good team in 2003 but we weren't terrible finishing with 7.5 wins and a percentage of 90. It was the kids leading the way. By any reasonable measure those kids had shown plenty at AFL level.

Incredibly that 2004 team wouldn't lose another game in Victoria until the Prelim.

It's no comparison to Richmond winning the spoon this year with the top 10 in the B&F including 3 players leaving, 4 players over 30 and no player under 24.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Two major differences now, I think:
- At Geelong specifically, it is bloody hard to get a game. We lost a heap of older mids around the late 90s/early 2000s, and had room to spare. Max Holmes would have been spending 90% game time in the centre; Knevitt would be playing 16 games/year.
- More generally, with footballers lasting so much longer, it is tougher for young players. Twenty years ago, guys like Dangerfield, Zorko and Gawn were not playing at all, let alone playing good footy. Guys like Neale and Cameron were past their peak - now that's not the case any more. The competition is harder than it has ever been for young players.

We're also less patient as an industry these days too when it comes to kids, both for better and for worse.

There's always been an element of wanting to 'call it early' so to speak in terms of judging a player, but it's much more pronounced these days.

With the increased attention on the draft now, you really only get two years at most to show something really exciting before the media and supporters are turfing you out for the shiny new thing. It's just rinse and repeat over and over again.

Jhye Clark is probably the best example for us right now. Twenty years ago it would've been normal to let him reach that 70-100 game mark and decide what to do with him from there, but that's changed now, and that criticism is no longer a vocal minority.

It goes both ways of course. Some guys will just never be good enough, and you can tell really early, but there's still an element of patience required with many.

 

[Turbocat]

We're also less patient as an industry these days too when it comes to kids, both for better and for worse.

There's always been an element of wanting to 'call it early' so to speak in terms of judging a player, but it's much more pronounced these days.

With the increased attention on the draft now, you really only get two years at most to show something really exciting before the media and supporters are turfing you out for the shiny new thing. It's just rinse and repeat over and over again.

Jhye Clark is probably the best example for us right now. Twenty years ago it would've been normal to let him reach that 70-100 game mark and decide what to do with him from there, but that's changed now, and that criticism is no longer a vocal minority.

It goes both ways of course. Some guys will just never be good enough, and you can tell really early, but there's still an element of patience required with many.

Media and then the supporters and to some degree the clubs too. The addition of mechanisms have elevated pressure to perform quicker. I have doubt one can just expect the draft to work the way it once could . Just pick the players and expect them to stay etc.. but id still think if a player shows something even if they are a type that will take time then they are given time.

Id say Clark has been hurt a little by pre draft comparisons to JS. Similar draft number but has only played a number of games like Mackie. Another comparison Tenace first three years he was given all the chances to show his worth then the club went past him. … but did the media and supporters place less pressure back then …. maybe. We had a lot of young players and the Tenance failure was probably hidden by that fact.

Clark is our first top 10 pick in such a long while . There is no hiding from that .Years three and four will be important for JC to lock down his spot. Demp for example is now a lock after year 3 ..IF Clark had been picked at a later number like him ..playing 16 games in his second year would probably seem very much on track.

…. and just an observation …Admittedly coming of a flag in 22… but JC is the only player left from 22 draft. Its either an ordinary draft or an ordinary attempt at it.

 

[D BRIDGE]

…. and just an observation …Admittedly coming of a flag in 22… but JC is the only player left from 22 draft. Its either an ordinary draft or an ordinary attempt at it.

It's still only early days but I think it's looking like a Barry Crocker of a draft.

Covid wouldn't have helped it much.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

…. and just an observation …Admittedly coming of a flag in 22… but JC is the only player left from 22 draft. Its either an ordinary draft or an ordinary attempt at it.

To be fair JC is the only player we selected before pick 50 and Clohesy is still plugging away

 

[Turbocat]

To be fair JC is the only player we selected before pick 50 and Clohesy is still plugging away

While true … we have found players late so often …then the flip side is probably … why didn't they find someone late. Was a 2nd level player, perhaps tall of some sort a better pick? Who knows. Im not really be critical.. its tough when you set a high standard for finding talent late.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

How do we think JC is tracking ? To me he would be close to pushing someone like Atkins out of best 22. But whether Atkins is still best 22 is questionable.

Season 2024 was really his first season, he was injured all of 2023. Sort of pulled out of the firsts half way through the 2024 season though.

 

[BennyGan]

Did my own top 50 rankings for the draft a few weeks ago.
Not where I think they will go just where I rank them.
The shades of is a player they share traits with or play like not how good they will be
Feel free to ask me some questions if you've got any.

 

[D BRIDGE]

How do we think JC is tracking ? To me he would be close to pushing someone like Atkins out of best 22. But whether Atkins is still best 22 is questionable.

Season 2024 was really his first season, he was injured all of 2023. Sort of pulled out of the firsts half way through the 2024 season though.

Underwhelming to my eye.

In saying that he should naturally improve with another preseason.

If he has a spike in form then yes he will be there abouts around the fringe.

It’ll be on JC to improve… Hopefully he does and does plenty.

 

[BennyGan]

Underwhelming to my eye.

I’m saying that he should naturally improve with another preseason.

If he has a spike in form then yes he will be there abouts around the fringe.

It’ll be on JC to improve… Hopefully he does and does plenty.

James Rowbottom and Jye Caldwell are the two players I think he should try to emulate.
Both took a little time to develop and aren't bless with elite physical traits or skills just workhorses
that play their roles and provide plenty of defensive pressure.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Underwhelming to my eye.

I’m saying that he should naturally improve with another preseason.

If he has a spike in form then yes he will be there abouts around the fringe.

It’ll be on JC to improve… Hopefully he does and does plenty.

Absolutely it's on him, nobody else will do it for him. Same for every player really.

He's coming into an age where players start to announce themselves, like Dempsey, Henry, Holmes, SDK, Humphries etc have over the last few years.

There's going to be another group of them over the next 18 months, it's just the nature of development and the turnover of a list.

Whether JC is apart of that next group remains to be seen, but unfortunately if you're not improving in this industry you're going backwards. There's just too many players vying for too few spots to think otherwise.

He does seem like the type of kid who will leave no stone unturned, so it's comforting I guess that if he doesn't make it, it won't be from a lack of effort.

 

[Turbocat]

Underwhelming to my eye.

I’m saying that he should naturally improve with another preseason.

If he has a spike in form then yes he will be there abouts around the fringe.

It’ll be on JC to improve… Hopefully he does and does plenty.

Thats fair. I cant say I have seen him play games in the VFL ..like Holmes or Dempsey ..or even Mannagh (although he is a bit older)

Not to say he cant get stronger or be the player. I feel injuries can hurt draftees there is a truth to the saying about the best ability being availability.

What is no doubt we will continue to add players and like all that are list they have the challenge of going past those above him …and staying ahead of those coming from under him

 

[Turbocat]

Absolutely it's on him, nobody else will do it for him. Same for every player really.

He's coming into an age where players start to announce themselves, like Dempsey, Henry, Holmes, SDK, Humphries etc have over the last few years.

There's going to be another group of them over the next 18 months, it's just the nature of development and the turnover of a list.

Whether JC is apart of that next group remains to be seen, but unfortunately if you're not improving in this industry you're going backwards. There's just too many players vying for too few spots to think otherwise.

He does seem like the type of kid who will leave no stone unturned, so it's comforting I guess that if he doesn't make it, it won't be from a lack of effort.

I feel the worst we end up with is an Atkins type… who is great for team and club… it will be up to the club to some degree to help and push..

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Did my own top 50 rankings for the draft a few weeks ago.
Not where I think they will go just where I rank them.
Feel free to ask me some questions if you've got any.
View attachment 2159174

Bloody hell... we gotta get into the 21-44 bracket.

 

[Turbocat]

Interesting that Gettable mentioned that Neale had a bit of attention to move elsewhere …and might receive other offers coming out of contract at years end 2025.

 

[Turbocat]

Bloody hell... we gotta get into the 21-44 bracket.

Which players are ringing your Pavlovian Bell? ..

 

[BennyGan]

Bloody hell... we gotta get into the 21-44 bracket.

i do like the depth in this draft and can easily see some good players coming from that range for sure

 

[Footy Smarts]

How do we think JC is tracking ?

He's shown why he was taken early. He has some real smarts about him. Great vision, really good above his head for his size and neat disposal. He's also brutal with his body and a few times willed himself on the contest when the game was on the line like Selwood used to. He was too small to really impact though.

The player he could be similar to is Bartel. Both really clever, loved the physical stuff and quality overhead. Both slow mud runners too.

But Bartel was 6cm taller when the average player was shorter than now. Can Clark's marking be as dangerous when he's much shorter? It's also harder to play as a winger or flanker without being a great runner now compared to when Bartel was young.

Bartel didn't show much in his first 2 years either. Their stats look remarkably similar at that point. It's not surprising cause neither had the acceleration of a Holmes or even a Selwood to allow them to be effective on the outside before they matured. Bartel was still playing VFL early in his 3rd season then really became a player once he returned to the team half way through that season.

I'd be pretty surprised if Clark can't be an Atkins midfielder. He has a lot of similarities to him. The question is whether he can be significantly better than that.

This year is the time to find out though. If he doesn't look like he really belongs at the level by the end of this year you'd start to doubt whether he's good enough.

 

[PzBlinky]

Bloody hell... we gotta get into the 21-44 bracket.

Our 45 pick should come into the late 30s with the bid matching, so that's one...but I wonder if we trade our FR2 for a second bite at the cherry. Wouldn't be worth more than another late 30-something (no other club is betting the Cats will slide) but that'd give us a couple of handy picks.

 

[BennyGan]

Our 45 pick should come into the late 30s with the bid matching, so that's one...but I wonder if we trade our FR2 for a second bite at the cherry. Wouldn't be worth more than another late 30-something (no other club is betting the Cats will slide) but that'd give us a couple of handy picks.

im gonna guess we trade back into this draft, whether that be a F1 or F2 im not sure but I think if someone is falling they like they go in and get their man like they did with Holmes

 

[My Tilly]

Bloody hell... we gotta get into the 21-44 bracket.

Even mid 30's be excellent

 

[calder_daddy]

Interesting that Gettable mentioned that Neale had a bit of attention to move elsewhere …and might receive other offers coming out of contract at years end 2025.

I think and hope he stays loyal

 

[Hamingja]

Interesting that Gettable mentioned that Neale had a bit of attention to move elsewhere …and might receive other offers coming out of contract at years end 2025.

I think we are lucky the WA teams are set with their tall forwards

Freo with Amiss, Treacy and Jackson

WC with Allen and Waterman

I don't see him leaving Geelong to go to another team outside WA