Gillard ends discriminatory asylum policy Part II

[Malifice]

If those ungrateful pricks cant be bothered sitting in Refugee camps in some squallid third world country on the off chance that they may get picked up, and come here instead, we should tow their kids off at gunpoint to Nairu, lock them up with no charge, judicial review or any accountability or natural justice required, and for as long as we damn well feel like it.

Thats what it means to be an 'Real Aussie'.

Thats what my grandfather fought in both World Wars for. So we could arbitrarily imprison refugee children at gunpoint without having to bother about pesky notions like liberty, justice, accountability or the rule of law.

After all, theyre Muslims and thus all terrorists, and responsible for everything from the suicides of our farmers, the GFC, loss of industry, global warming, Collingwood winning the 2010 flag, AIDS, cancer and god knows what else. Theyre secretly trying to undermine and 'Islamify' us all; these boats are just the vanguard of a much larger force. Plus they dress funny, dont eat pork, and pray too much for my liking.

If we dont imprison these desperate people, pretty soon Australia will be a Caliphate, and those Muslims will be eating your children and stealing your jobs.

In fact, we should probably be looking for a more permanent... or 'final' solution to this Muslim problem. Once we have them all imprisoned in the camps, we can start a 'processing' of some kind to eliminate the problem once and for all.

Sure, we may be regarded as monsters, but future generations will thank us for our actions.

Its what it means to be a 'Real Aussie'.

 

[Max zero]

If those ungrateful pricks cant be bothered sitting in Refugee camps in some squallid third world country on the off chance that they may get picked up, and come here instead, we should tow their kids off at gunpoint to Nairu, lock them up with no charge, judicial review or any accountability or natural justice required, and for as long as we damn well feel like it.

Thats what it means to be an 'Real Aussie'.

Thats what my grandfather fought in both World Wars for. So we could arbitrarily imprison refugee children at gunpoint without having to bother about pesky notions like liberty, justice, accountability or the rule of law.

After all, theyre Muslims and thus all terrorists, and responsible for everything from the suicides of our farmers, the GFC, loss of industry, global warming, Collingwood winning the 2010 flag, AIDS, cancer and god knows what else. Theyre secretly trying to undermine and 'Islamify' us all; these boats are just the vanguard of a much larger force. Plus they dress funny, dont eat pork, and pray too much for my liking.

If we dont imprison these desperate people, pretty soon Australia will be a Caliphate, and those Muslims will be eating your children and stealing your jobs.

In fact, we should probably be looking for a more permanent... or 'final' solution to this Muslim problem. Once we have them all imprisoned in the camps, we can start a 'processing' of some kind to eliminate the problem once and for all.

Sure, we may be regarded as monsters, but future generations will thank us for our actions.

Its what it means to be a 'Real Aussie'.

Seriously you should be carded for shit like this.

This is nothing but a giant strawman complete with a ridiculous level of hyperbole.

Adds absolutely nothing while completely avoiding the issue of how we decide between refugees at refugee camps and those arriving by boat.

 

[Malifice]

Adds absolutely nothing while completely avoiding the issue of how we decide between refugees at refugee camps and those arriving by boat.

Just voicing my concerns about those nefarious Muslims, and our 'appropriate' response (offshore detention, away from our courts, media and legal system, outside of the Rule of Law or judicial accountability, arbitrarily, and with no regard to Natural Justice).

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable and proportionate response to me.

Remind me when I get in power to use the same tactics to round up and detain Bolt, his conservative cronies and their children using a similar arbitrary power, outside the Rule of Law, without access to the courts, at gunpoint and offshore.

 

[Max zero]

Just voicing my concerns about those nefarious Muslims, and our 'appropriate' response (offshore detention, away from our courts, media and legal system, outside of the Rule of Law or judicial accountability, arbitrarily, and with no regard to Natural Justice).

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable and proportionate response to me.

Remind me when I get in power to use the same tactics to round up and detain Bolt, his conservative cronies and their children using a similar arbitrary power, outside the Rule of Law, without access to the courts, at gunpoint and offshore.

No you were just trying to brand people a bunch of Nazi Racists.

I notice you still didn't tackle the issue of how do we handle boat arrivals as opposed to camp arrivals.

Finished moralising and ready to discuss some practical solutions?

 

[Malifice]

No you were just trying to brand people a bunch of Nazi Racists.

I notice you still didn't tackle the issue of how do we handle boat arrivals as opposed to camp arrivals.

Finished moralising and ready to discuss some practical solutions?

Ive been discussing practical solutions all thread.

I just wanted to see what it was like on the other side of the coin for a change.

I support the 'no advantage' rule FWIW.

 

[bombermick]

How would your no advantage rule work? You're obviously against offshore mandatory detention.

 

[Malifice]

How would your no advantage rule work? You're obviously against offshore mandatory detention.

Why detain them offshore?

Why cant we detain them in refugee camps onshore, with access to the courts, natural justice and supervised by an independent judiciary?

From there, they're allowed to apply through formal channels for resettlement as normal (against an increased quota of 20k).

Or accept a ticket home.

 

[Max zero]

Why detain them offshore?

Why cant we detain them in refugee camps onshore, with access to the courts, natural justice and supervised by an independent judiciary?

From there, they're allowed to apply through formal channels for resettlement as normal (against an increased quota of 20k).

Or accept a ticket home.

Because it costs too much.

Why can't they apply through formal channels from refugee camps?

How does your method discourage boat arrivals?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

If those ungrateful pricks cant be bothered sitting in Refugee camps in some squallid third world country on the off chance that they may get picked up, and come here instead, we should tow their kids off at gunpoint to Nairu, lock them up with no charge, judicial review or any accountability or natural justice required, and for as long as we damn well feel like it.

Thats what it means to be an 'Real Aussie'.

Thats what my grandfather fought in both World Wars for. So we could arbitrarily imprison refugee children at gunpoint without having to bother about pesky notions like liberty, justice, accountability or the rule of law.

If you want to take it down that path, let's continue.

Is Australia at war in Afghanistan and Iraq? Do the majority of the economic refugees come from those 2 countries? Didn't Australia have internment camps during at least WWII to imprison, indefinitely, people of Japanese, German, Italian and other nationalities without charge? You know, just in case.

Consider the current situation a continuation of those policies

Camps specifically designed for internees were set up Australia-wide in both city and country and included Tatura at Rushworth in Victoria; Cowra in New South Wales; Loveday in South Australia; Rottnest Island in Western Australia; and Enoggera in suburban Brisbane.

Over 7000 Australian residents, mainly men but also women and children, were detained for part or all of the war. Australian residents declared enemy aliens included recently-arrived immigrants; naturalised Australians born in an enemy country; second-generation Australians of foreign descent; refugees from Europe, including Jewish refugees; and even Australians of British descent who were classed as a threat.

In addition, about 8000 enemy aliens were detained in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, and then sent to Australia for internment. The internees also were of mixed background. Some were enemy soldiers captured by the allied forces; some were refugees who had already fled Europe; and yet others were British citizens who were immigrants from countries now considered the enemy. Overseas internees included men, women and children, including many family groups.



During the First World War 6,890 Germans were interned, of whom 4,500 were Australian residents before 1914; the rest were sailors from German navy ships or merchant ships who were arrested while in Australian ports when the war broke out, or German citizens living in British territories in South-East Asia and transported to Australia at the request of the British Government. Some internees were temporary visitors trapped here when the war began. About 1,100 of the total were Austro-Hungarians, and of those around 700 were Serbs, Croats and Dalmatians from within the Austro-Hungarian Empire who were working in mines in Western Australia.
Australian trade with Germany and immigration from Germany were banned for the first few years of the 1920s. Officials in the German Department of Foreign Affairs wrote in the 1920s that anti-German feelings seemed stronger in Australia than in any of the other English-speaking countries.
Business Competitors & Union Troublemakers
In World War I the Australian Government wanted to stop companies run by businessmen of German descent from competing with "British" companies, in case companies run by German-Australians could somehow help the German war effort in Europe. An easy way to do this was to intern the directors and managers of such companies, even if they were naturalised British subjects.
Examples:

Franz Wallach and Walter Schmidt of the Australian Metal Company (subsidiary of a German company) in Melbourne;

Oskar Plate of the Norddeutscher Lloyd Steamship Company in Sydney;

Edmund Resch, the Sydney brewer (who had been in Australia for 50 years);

Carl Zoeller, a successful and popular member of the Brisbane German-Australian community and importer and maker of medical and surgical equipment;

Frederick Monzel, publisher and printer of the Queenslander Herald.
Australian workers and self-employed small-businesspeople needed to feel that they were also contributing something to the Empire's war effort - by recommending to the government that a German-Australian be interned they were being patriotic, but naturally they were especially keen to do so if that eliminated one of their competitors in business. In Melbourne, Mr F.W. Abbott, the manager of "The Neway", a clothes cleaning and dyeing company in Little Collins St, sent the government the names of three competitors who he claimed were German. He wrote:

Cannot Germans trading under British names be made to disclose their names? This applies to all classes of business in Australia. There would be nothing harsh about such a regulation if passed as they will still have an open chance to trade and to get business from those people of Australia who are not loyal enough to stick to their own people.​

Obviously Mr Abbott's complaint was in his own business interest. A law was introduced prohibiting enemy aliens from changing their names. A Melbourne waiter sent to the authorities a list of names of "enemy aliens" working in various hotels and cafes in the city. Some professors on the council of the University of Melbourne stopped the appointment of two lecturers of German background. Dr Maximilian Herz, Australia's most distinguished orthopaedic surgeon, was interned. He had played a pioneering role in orthopaedic surgery in this country. The Sydney branch of the British Medical Association (as the Australian Medical Association was then known) cancelled the membership of German-born doctors and campaigned to have them deported. They said:

It is not in the public interest that medical men of alien enemy birth and qualification should be allowed to practise in the Commonwealth.​

The Sydney branch of the British Medical Association no doubt did not like the fact that Dr Herz had strongly criticised the standards of Australian doctors at various conferences before the war.
In a court case in Temora, western New South Wales, "a British subject" was accused of having used indecent language in the bar of the Empire Hotel. Police Magistrate N.A. Ormonde Butler dismissed the case because the two witnesses for the prosecution were unnaturalised Germans. He told them:

"You and your friend should be interned. It is a public scandal that the Federal Government allows unnaturalised Germans of military age to work among and in competition with British subjects".​

From this it doesn't seem that a national Australian identity was very developed yet at that time; the bond to Britain was very strong. It was not until 1949 that the Australian Government saw its way to introduce Australian citizenship.
The unions were against Germans in Australian workplaces, whether they were co-unionists or not. The war caused a drop in living standards, higher unemployment and higher prices, and this created hostility to citizens of German origin. In some workplaces Australians refused to work with Germans. The Australian Government saw Germans as troublemakers in workplaces, encouraging strikes in order to weaken the war effort of the Empire and help Germany.
Examples:

Ernst Buchwitz, a worker at the Baffle Creek Sugar Mill near Bundaberg and an organiser for the Australian Workers Union, was interned and later deported for having "caused disruption between the men and the mill", a charge Buchwitz denied.

C.S. Schache, a waterside worker in Gladstone, Queensland, and "a second-generation Australian with a German grandfather", was interned because he was the local secretary of the Workers' Political Organisation.

Willy Gubba in Melbourne was interned because he was a member of the Australasian Socialist Party. He was a waiter in a restaurant owned by a German-Australian, and it was said that the restaurant was used by "all the Germans in and around Melbourne of all classes", according to the detectives who investigated for the Defence Department. There was no evidence, but the detectives concluded that "Probably Gubba as a 'mere waiter' was used as a tool for the other Germans of higher standing and financial position" and the restaurant "was the channel used by the financial opponents to assist the socialists in putting up such a sustained fight against conscription". The Australian Government believed there were German spies all around the country.
Weaken the German-Australian Community
- intern the Community Leaders
The Defence Department had a deliberate policy of interning those whom it decided were leaders of the German-Australian community, especially in South Australia and in Queensland, the states with the highest proportion of people of German background, and states in which there were distinctive areas of group settlement (though by 1914 the German-Australians were in the minority in many of these areas). The government wanted to destroy the German-Australian community as a distinct socio-cultural element in Australian society. With this aim, German clubs were closed, Lutheran schools were closed in many places (all of them in S.A. were closed), and the leaders of the community were interned.
Consuls and pastors
Apart from business leaders, the Defence Department saw the consuls and pastors as the leaders in the German-Australian community. The five consuls who were interned in Australia were not professional diplomats, they were honorary consuls, and most were naturalised British subjects. The five were: Eugen Hirschfeld from Brisbane, Ludwig Ratazzi from Perth (of German and Italian background; he was Consul for both countries), Alfred Christian Dehle from Hobart, Otto Johannsen from Newcastle, and Wilhelm Friedrich Christian Adena from Melbourne. As prominent businessmen, their business activities were seen as harmful to British-Australian interests. In South Australia, Consul Muecke was interned for a short time at Fort Largs in April 1916, then from May to October he was under detention in his own home with military guards while his youngest son was fighting in France with the Australian Army after being wounded earlier at Gallipoli. In South Australia Pastor Nickel was interned for a short time, but no other pastors were after that. In Queensland nine pastors were interned, six of whom were naturalised British subjects. Two of those had been born in Australia, including Pastor Friedrich Gustav Fischer of Goombungee. He had been born in South Australia in 1876, and both his parents had also been born in South Australia. Federal Cabinet approved Fischer's internment on the basis of an intelligence report (can 'intelligence' be the right word?!) from the Defence Department which included:

The situation in the German districts gives great anxiety to British residents, and the best way of relieving their anxiety, as well as of keeping German residents in check, is to intern occasionally a few leading German residents. From this point of view it is considered that the internment of Fischer would be justified.​

(Soon after the war started, the Australian government had to set up accommodation for the large number of people who were being interned, so concentration camps (an idea first used by the British Government in the Boer War 1899-1902) were established in each of the six states. In three states (Tasmania, S.A. and W.A.) they were on islands a short distance from the capital city. By the end of May 1915, almost 3,000 people had been interned:
Enoggera, Queensland (suburban Brisbane) 137
Holdsworthy, NSW (south-east of Liverpool) 1342
Langwarrin, Victoria (south-east of Melbourne) 420
Torrens Island, S.A. (in the harbour of Port Adelaide) 355
Rottnest Island, W.A. (Indian Ocean, near Fremantle) 628
Bruny Island, Tasmania (south of Hobart) 58
TOTAL 2940

Two months later the decision was made to close these regional camps and transfer the prisoners to concentration camps in NSW. Perhaps this decision was made in order to save costs (for example, in all camps Australian soldiers who worked as guards had to be paid), in order to make communication between the camps and Melbourne headquarters easier, and to make sure that all guards treated prisoners according to the rules. There had been complaints that guards on Rottnest Island had often used bayonets on prisoners, and on Bruny Island the prisoners had gone on strike, and an official enquiry had been set up into a scandal involving the flogging of prisoners on Torrens Island.
For this centralisation of the internees, the Holdsworthy camp was greatly enlarged, and two special camps were also established in NSW, both in jails that were no longer used. The first, at Berrima (130 km south-west of Sydney in the southern highlands), was mainly for ships' officers and sailors, and the Trial Bay camp (on the NSW north coast) was for about 500 internees, most of whom had been deported from British territories in South-East Asia and the Pacific Islands. There was also a family camp at Bourke in the north-west of NSW for overseas internees with wives and children and some female relatives. For many internees the long-distance journey from their regional camp to their new camp in NSW was unpleasant. Many complained about rough treatment by police or military officials. Many were handcuffed during their train journey; being treated in public as if they were criminals would not have been pleasant. The luggage of many prisoners was lost en route, and some found that their luggage had been forced open and things had been stolen.

IIn the camps the internees arranged their own entertainment and many cultural and sporting events. They formed choirs and orchestras, and had theatrical productions. Dr Maximilian Herz directed many successful productions at Trial Bay. At Berrima the sailor prisoners built many different model boats and had regattas and boat exhibitions on the Wingecarribee River. At one exhibition early in 1918 the local public were surprised to see a Venetian gondola, a scale model of the sailor-training ship Preußen, a Chinese junk and a submarine. The Berrima prisoners were also allowed to work for money on local farms.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Why detain them offshore?

Why cant we detain them in refugee camps onshore, with access to the courts, natural justice and supervised by an independent judiciary?

From there, they're allowed to apply through formal channels for resettlement as normal (against an increased quota of 20k).

Or accept a ticket home.

You make it sound so simple. Sorry, you can't stay, here's your ticket, on your way, toodle pip. You know that barely, if any of them are ever that simple.

 

[R00StaR]

No you were just trying to brand people a bunch of Nazi Racists.

The looney left branding and labeling people - tell me it isnt so? Im shocked.

Hilter is a cat in comparison to their Stalin, marxist socialist ways.

But its funny to watch, read forums or debates and you see the same labeling tactics uses. Isms, phobias, fascists, bigots and so on - only there like badges of honor theses days.

Surely its just purely accidental that the neo-Stalinists openly align themselves with most fascist ideology of our times - Islam. They just havent figured out yet like their buddy Stalin, they too are in the cross-hairs, its just a matter of time. Once thats all sorted out we can get on with the cold war of ideologies.

Hey Allen West, what you have to say about this?



lol damn really?

 

[noddy]

The looney left branding and labeling people - tell me it isnt so? Im shocked.

Hilter is a cat in comparison to their Stalin, marxist socialist ways.

But its funny to watch, read forums or debates and you see the same labeling tactics uses. Isms, phobias, fascists, bigots and so on - only there like badges of honor theses days.

Surely its just purely accidental that the neo-Stalinists openly align themselves with most fascist ideology of our times - Islam. They just havent figured out yet like their buddy Stalin, they too are in the cross-hairs, its just a matter of time. Once thats all sorted out we can get on with the cold war of ideologies.

Hey Allen West, what you have to say about this?



lol damn really?

Mate you're in need of help.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Because it costs too much.

Why can't they apply through formal channels from refugee camps?

How does your method discourage boat arrivals?

You do realise it's costing us billions of $ to open "processing centres" on Nauru and Manus Island right? You also realise a huge of that money is effectively a bribe so that they will accept refugees on their land? On-shore detention would be far cheaper since we don't have to pay these massive bribes.

 

[bombermick]

Why detain them offshore?

Why cant we detain them in refugee camps onshore, with access to the courts, natural justice and supervised by an independent judiciary?

From there, they're allowed to apply through formal channels for resettlement as normal (against an increased quota of 20k).

Or accept a ticket home.

So we'll have endless appeals?

 

[Max zero]

You do realise it's costing us billions of $ to open "processing centres" on Nauru and Manus Island right? You also realise a huge of that money is effectively a bribe so that they will accept refugees on their land? On-shore detention would be far cheaper since we don't have to pay these massive bribes.

I accept that cost because it will actually fix the problem of refugee making dangerous boat arrivals (and has in the past). Onshore processing won't do that. If anything it will encourage it.

I am also fully aware that the vast majority of refugees housed in off shore detention were accepted as refugees and ended up being relocated to Australia.

The advantage of Nauru was the perception of being tough without actually being so.

At the end of Howard's term the detention centres were EMPTY and no one was risking death trying to get a boat to Australia. Isn't that the goal that everyone was bleating about?

We had the solution and yet Labour in their infinite wisdom replaced empty detention centres with overflowing ones and empty graves with a heap of bodies.

I wonder how many of you who crying about the harshness of Howard have apologised for getting 10s if not 100s of people killed through your 'good intentions'?

 

[Malifice]

Because it costs too much.

Oh I see; we should deny people natural justice, disregard the rule of law, and imprison people off shore and so forth because 'it costs too much' to afford them procedural fairness.

Rubbish argument.

How does your method discourage boat arrivals?

It ensures no benefit for risking the long journey via boat.

Is Australia at war in Afghanistan and Iraq? Do the majority of the economic refugees come from those 2 countries?

So you conceed that we are at war in these nations, yet you cling to the 'economic refugee' line.

Also despite the overwhelming majority being found to be legitimate refugees, and those that are not are pissed off back home.

Its OK for us to 'liberate' Iraq from oppression, and Afghans from the Taliban regime, but on the other hand, detain and oppress Iraqi and Afghani refugees on Nairu.

That makes perfect sense.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So you conceed that we are at war in these nations, yet you cling to the 'economic refugee' line.

Concede what? When have I ever said that we aren't at war in those countries. You need a bex and a lie down I think. They are economic refugees. Is Australia the closest safe haven that they can find? Or are we the softest touch and offer more if you're willing to take a chance?

Also despite the overwhelming majority being found to be legitimate refugees, and those that are not are pissed off back home.
Yeah the majority are, they've got their stories down pat these days I'd love to see the figures on how many are actually sent back and of the ones that are, how many attempts does it take to get them out.

Its OK for us to 'liberate' Iraq from oppression, and Afghans from the Taliban regime, but on the other hand, detain and oppress Iraqi and Afghani refugees on Nairu.

Are they safer being detained here or living in their homelands?

That makes perfect sense.

Next, keep 'em coming.

 

[Jakko]

Hunger strike on Christmas Island.

 

[Malifice]

Concede what? When have I ever said that we aren't at war in those countries. You need a bex and a lie down I think. They are economic refugees. Is Australia the closest safe haven that they can find? Or are we the softest touch and offer more if you're willing to take a chance?

So you conceed theyre fleeing a war, but then go on and claim that they are economic refugees.

Says it all about your bias really.

Yeah the majority are, they've got their stories down pat these days I'd love to see the figures on how many are actually sent back and of the ones that are, how many attempts does it take to get them out.

And again. Despite conceeding they are fleeing a war and persecution, and notwithstanding that they have the onus of proving that they are legitimate refugees, without any legal support, offshore, absent natural justice or judicial access, in a syestem implemented to make it extremely difficult for them to establish refugee states, you make some unsubstantiated inference that 'theyre all lying'.

Could it be (seeing as they are from war torn countries), and they have proven themselves to be refugees, despite a system in place that makes it extremely difficult for them to do so, that they actually... could be refugees?

Have you actually considered this?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Tough night on the Gold Coast, aye?

 

[bombermick]

If you're at war with a country (even unofficially) you have a moral duty to accept genuine refugees from those countries. However, last time I checked Sri Lanka is no longer at war.

 

[Max zero]

Oh I see; we should deny people natural justice, disregard the rule of law, and imprison people off shore and so forth because 'it costs too much' to afford them procedural fairness.

Rubbish argument.



It ensures no benefit for risking the long journey via boat.



So you conceed that we are at war in these nations, yet you cling to the 'economic refugee' line.

Also despite the overwhelming majority being found to be legitimate refugees, and those that are not are pissed off back home.

Its OK for us to 'liberate' Iraq from oppression, and Afghans from the Taliban regime, but on the other hand, detain and oppress Iraqi and Afghani refugees on Nairu.

That makes perfect sense.

Money comes into at some point right?

No benefit? Check the % of refugee applications from boat arrivals versus camp applications.

I would argue the most basic right is a right to life. Why would we encourage boat arrivals in this case?

And as a aside: Go the Suns!

 

[Malifice]

No benefit? Check the % of refugee applications from boat arrivals versus camp applications.

Provide me with these statistics.

Hint: bet you cant find them.

 

[Max zero]

Provide me with these statistics.

Hint: bet you cant find them.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...protection-issue/story-e6frg71x-1226450399296

Perhaps the most insulting exploded myth is that strong border protection policies demonstrate a heartless nation. This malicious untruth has been wielded as a weapon in place of facts, used repeatedly against fellow Australians by activists such as former prime minister Malcolm Fraser and barrister Julian Burnside. The truth is that irregular boat arrivals push further back in the queue other refugees waiting on their orderly applications to join our humanitarian intake. Yes, Julian, there is a queue, and denying its existence is the biggest myth of all. The panel explains it this way: "Those who continue to choose irregular maritime voyages to Australia to claim asylum should not be advantaged for doing so over those who pursue regular mechanisms." This is an approach to fairness strongly held by many refugees themselves, as has been recognised previously, if belatedly, by Immigration Minister Chris Bowen in our pages. "In the most multicultural area of Australia, where many refugees have made their home," he wrote of his electorate, "there is very strong support for policies that deter boat journeys and give more places to people sitting in desperate and prolonged circumstances around the world." This self-selection increasingly has sidelined our immigration officers from choosing which refugees are most deserving. During the years of the Pacific Solution, 90 per cent or more of our refugee places went to overseas refugees, but last year, as boat arrivals increased, that dropped to less than half. This year looks even less prospective for those who cannot buy a seat on a boat.

Why should boat arrivals get priority over camp applicants? Don't you care about the camp refugees? They can't afford to pay a people smuggler 10k.

How does onshore arrival deter people from taking a boat? Should asylum be granted to those based on a needs rather then a financial basis?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So you conceed theyre fleeing a war, but then go on and claim that they are economic refugees.

Says it all about your bias really.



And again. Despite conceeding they are fleeing a war and persecution, and notwithstanding that they have the onus of proving that they are legitimate refugees, without any legal support, offshore, absent natural justice or judicial access, in a syestem implemented to make it extremely difficult for them to establish refugee states, you make some unsubstantiated inference that 'theyre all lying'.

Could it be (seeing as they are from war torn countries), and they have proven themselves to be refugees, despite a system in place that makes it extremely difficult for them to do so, that they actually... could be refugees?

Have you actually considered this?

My recollections may be a bit hazy because I wasn't alive at the time, but in the wars where Australia set up internment camps, in the war torn European countries, didn't the locals either fight or flee and then when it was safe they returned home? Also their entire country was being occupied or reduced to rubble not small strategic pockets as we have now. So yes, they are economic refugees.

Before you bang on about the European migrants that came here, we needed them to help us build Australia and they came here, AFTER, peace had been restored and we encouraged them and they travelled here safely.

We took 1000s from the Balkans, flew them here, then when it was safe we flew them home.