Gillard ends discriminatory asylum policy Part II

[Upton Sinclair]

Your a coward hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. I'm done with you.

Would LOVED to have seen this post before the edit!

 

[Deathb4dishonour]

So do the people coming by boat seem to be not too bright? Why else would someone pay a people smugglers upwards of $5,0000 when if they did a bit of homework they could fly into Australia from Indonesia for roughly $400... Maybe its because if you fly into Australia you need a passport.. then again they travelling through Indonesia.. to enter Indonesia you need a current passport which must be stamped 60 days before entering and a valid visa.

To stop the flow of boats you need to remove the incentives - family reunification, permanent citizenship. Issue temporary protection visas for people who are claiming asylum who dont have the correct paperwork.

its not fair on the people who do the right thing.. go through the UNCHFR and are assessed as refugees awaiting resettlement but cant be resettled due to people coming by boat taking most if not all of the 13,000 places australia has set aside.

when the boats are stopped then we can resettle more people from the refugee camps. the Un convention wasnt designed for people to make unnecessary trips half way round the world...

 

[subaru]

This still going on ? I thought Jules was going to fix it three years ago ?
C'mon Jules....

 

[Pie eyed]

This suggestion by Tony makes me thingk of two things.

Even though he states a coalition goverement could pretty much halt the boats, he practically admitting they cant because hes got 'work for the dole' planned for them
Brilliant. combining two of the coalitions reverese envy ACA/TT policies into one MF of a policy.

But not so brilliant - isnt one of the reasons numnut voters hate asylum seekers becasue they come over here doing our jobs for less money ? Abbott is just legilising that

Tony does not give a rats toss about the refugee problem or the refugees. Tony needs a mechanism to keep mentioning them as it gives the impression he has policy direction and endears him to the redneck idiots.

 

[Malifice]

You lefties are off the leash. I make a simple statement declaring my dislike of current immigration policy because of the resultant population pressure and decline in lifestyles.

Yet you wouldnt have your current lifestyle but for immigration.

Not only would your family still be in England [or wherever you hail from], but everything you see when you look out your window [this lifestyle you so proudly claim] was built by migrants.

If we must have immigration then I admit I'd rather immigrants that come from cultural demographics in line with our own, to avoid more of the cultural clashes we have seen here and all over the world - time and time again.

Youre aware that its opinions like this that cause these cultural clashes right?

 

[Malifice]

In todays paper there was an article stating that WA was 1000 doctors short, due to increases in our population caused by immigration. Yesterday was about how our public transport experienced an explosion in patronage well above all projections. Our freeway is essentially dysfunctional for 6 or more hours each day, during the commuter rush. New housing estates extending from Yanchep to Busselton, people being forced to commute for 1-2 hours each day. Mostly due to population increased bought on by immigration.

Yeah, nah.

Net overseas migration

Net overseas migration (NOM) is the net gain or loss of population through immigration to Australia and emigration from Australia.

Overseas travellers are included in the population if they are in Australia for 12 months or more, during a 16 month period. Conversely, overseas travellers are subtracted from the population if they are away for a total of 12 months or more over a 16 month period. The level of NOM is the balance of these NOM arrivals minus NOM departures.

This method is known as the '12/16 month rule'. It accounts for those persons who may have left Australia briefly and returned, while still being resident for 12 months out of 16.

Net overseas migration... has been decreasing in recent years. Final NOM peaked at 315 700 for the year ending December 2008. Since this peak, NOM has fallen and the latest ABS estimates indicate that it was about 172 500 at 30 September 2011. This is a 45 per cent fall from its peak.

Currently NOM contributes about 54 per cent of Australia's population growth.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/15population.htm#aa

 

[Malifice]

traumatised people, please dont exaggerate , they are economic refugees, dont be so niave, if your in your 20s you might grow out of it

Why would you get on Welfare if youre an Economic migrant?

Doesnt seem to make much economic sense at all.

Surely (if you were an economic migrant) the whole point is to make money?

 

[Malifice]

And can we stop calling Xsess racist?

He's said nothing racist.

Ethnocentric and mildly Xenophobic sure, but certainly not Racist.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

And can we stop calling Xsess racist?

He's said nothing racist.

Ethnocentric and mildly Xenophobic sure, but certainly not Racist.

Meh. He brought it up. At any rate, English is a dynamic language and most dictionaries recognise that the common use definition covers general xenophobia. Certainly that's how the racial discrimination act is worded.

At any rate, the concept of 'race' is just an arbitrary construct anyway, so if we were to relegate the word 'racism' to refer strictly to the concept of race then the word would become pretty redundant really.

 

[Malifice]

Meh. He brought it up. At any rate, English is a dynamic language and most dictionaries recognise that the common use definition covers general xenophobia. Certainly that's how the racial discrimination act is worded.

I personally don't like bandying it about unless there is racism (an assertion of biologically based traits that lead to an inherent advantage or disadvantage for a particular 'race', or discrimination based on those grounds).

Its a big insult to be labeled a 'racist', and it cheapens it (and gives the anti-PC crowd something to whine about).

I get what youre saying though; I often find those that exhibit xenophobia and ethnocentrism are almost invariably racist as well, but they are different (if related) concepts.

Ethnocentrism is the new catch cry of the Right. Not wanting to be labelled 'racists' anymore, or wanting to be associated with famous racist Right groups like the KKK or the Nazis, they couch their hatred of black/brown people in cultural terms.

It appears discriminating against an ethnic group based on the artifical construct of 'culture' is somehow more acceptable than disciminating against them based on the artifical construct of 'race'.

Still leads to and comes from the same dark place, and uses virtually the same logic.

At any rate, the concept of 'race' is just an arbitrary construct anyway, so if we were to relegate the word 'racism' to refer strictly to the concept of race then the word would become pretty redundant really.

I see the distinction as an important one to maintan.

When arguing against a racist, one needs to dispell the notion of biological races as discreet objective entities, and then demonstrate that any assumptions based on notions of the existence of race that follow from said fallacy are equal logical fallacies (and lack any empirical evidenece to support such assertions).

In short, racists generally couch their position in scientific terms. Easily rebuttable (the actual science doesnt support much of what they claim).

There aint no science with Ethnocentrism. Just fear.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

While I definitely appreciate the effort, Mal, my general feeling can still be summed up as 'meh'. The OED and all relevant legal interpretations are broader than yours.

 

[Malifice]

While I definitely appreciate the effort, Mal, my general feeling can still be summed up as 'meh'. The OED and all relevant legal interpretations are broader than yours.

Wiki (citing the OED and Encyclopedia Britannica) defines it as:

Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.

Which sits with my understanding of the term.

Although (from the same article) the legal definiton has come to mean:

The UN does not define “racism”; however, it does define “racial discrimination”: According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[21]​

​

This definition does not make any difference between discrimination based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the two remains debatable among anthropologists.[22] Similarly, in British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

The above legal defintion is broader as it includes nationality, citizenship and ethnic origin.

Which means one can be a 'racist' without making a reference to a persons 'race' at all.

Im a little loathe to call a propsed UK law that targets or discriminates against 'Australians' as being 'racist' despite it clearly falling withing the UK's definition of racism above.

Then again, all us Aussies in the UK do form ghettoes and dont assimilate.

Head down to Clapham or Shepherds Bush. Aussie 'migrants' everywhere. Forming their own Walkabout pubs, hanging almost exclusively with oter Aussies, boozing and being promiscuous, watching this bastardised 'AFL' football, and refusing to cheer for England in the Ashes.

Culture.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

Ahhh... I just don't care enough to get into it. OP played the racist-card card and I just confirmed the proposition.

 

[Malifice]

Ahhh... I just don't care enough to get into it. OP played the racist-card card and I just confirmed the proposition.

Tounge in cheek, I agree with Xsess on banning certain ethnic groups.

We need to stop 'White Anglo' migration immediately in order to stop ugly incidents like Cronulla/ the White Australia Policy/ World War 1 and 2, the Stolen Generation etc etc from occuring again.

It undeniable that those White guys are a violent lot; last century alone they caused (and were the major participants in) a series of global wars resulting in the deaths of 100,000,000 or so people. Those guys have been the major particpants in colonialism, slavery, imperialism, ultranationalism and so forth, despite representing a fraction of the worlds population.

Shit, collectively the 'whites' own virtually all the words nuclear weapons, and have even used them twice (on 'non white' civilians each time). No surprise it was the 'whites' who came up with terms like 'Mutually assured destruction' and then normalised the concept.

You cant blame the individual 'whitey' of course; I know a few good 'white' guys personally. Its just a product of the 'culture' they come from. The most brutal, cruel, selfish and violent societies in the world, where they see themselves as somehow superior to the rest of the population of the earth. No surprises the whites are scattered all around the world, trying impose their culture on the rest of the world. Also no surprises that they are imposing their culture with force, violence and war.

Maybe its a genetic thing with the 'whites', I dont know.

Whatever it is, we would be a better place with less white guys and that violent and destructive culture of theirs in Australia, thats for sure.

 

[richmonds]

can you let the forum know what your ethnic backgroung is?

 

[Upton Sinclair]

Kill whitey!

 

[Deathb4dishonour]

Tounge in cheek, I agree with Xsess on banning certain ethnic groups.

We need to stop 'White Anglo' migration immediately in order to stop ugly incidents like Cronulla/ the White Australia Policy/ World War 1 and 2, the Stolen Generation etc etc from occuring again.

It undeniable that those White guys are a violent lot; last century alone they caused (and were the major participants in) a series of global wars resulting in the deaths of 100,000,000 or so people. Those guys have been the major particpants in colonialism, slavery, imperialism, ultranationalism and so forth, despite representing a fraction of the worlds population.

Shit, collectively the 'whites' own virtually all the words nuclear weapons, and have even used them twice (on 'non white' civilians each time). No surprise it was the 'whites' who came up with terms like 'Mutually assured destruction' and then normalised the concept.

You cant blame the individual 'whitey' of course; I know a few good 'white' guys personally. Its just a product of the 'culture' they come from. The most brutal, cruel, selfish and violent societies in the world, where they see themselves as somehow superior to the rest of the population of the earth. No surprises the whites are scattered all around the world, trying impose their culture on the rest of the world. Also no surprises that they are imposing their culture with force, violence and war.

Maybe its a genetic thing with the 'whites', I dont know.

Whatever it is, we would be a better place with less white guys and that violent and destructive culture of theirs in Australia, thats for sure.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3442/belgium-islamic-state

 

[Moo]

can you let the forum know what your ethnic backgroung is?

I think he is whige

 

[mantis]

Tounge in cheek, I agree with Xsess on banning certain ethnic groups.

We need to stop 'White Anglo' migration immediately in order to stop ugly incidents like Cronulla/ the White Australia Policy/ World War 1 and 2, the Stolen Generation etc etc from occuring again.

It undeniable that those White guys are a violent lot; last century alone they caused (and were the major participants in) a series of global wars resulting in the deaths of 100,000,000 or so people. Those guys have been the major particpants in colonialism, slavery, imperialism, ultranationalism and so forth, despite representing a fraction of the worlds population.

Shit, collectively the 'whites' own virtually all the words nuclear weapons, and have even used them twice (on 'non white' civilians each time). No surprise it was the 'whites' who came up with terms like 'Mutually assured destruction' and then normalised the concept.

You cant blame the individual 'whitey' of course; I know a few good 'white' guys personally. Its just a product of the 'culture' they come from. The most brutal, cruel, selfish and violent societies in the world, where they see themselves as somehow superior to the rest of the population of the earth. No surprises the whites are scattered all around the world, trying impose their culture on the rest of the world. Also no surprises that they are imposing their culture with force, violence and war.

Maybe its a genetic thing with the 'whites', I dont know.

Excellent post. I don't want to seem to be having a go at you, but when did "tongue" start being spelt that way? Everywhere I look on the web, I see it, is it an American spelling?

 

[Xsess]

I dislike all immigration due to populations pressures. I disagree with immigration that doesn't consider social order issues. The Taliban was used as an example of a culture that would not fit into Australia society. Your circle jerk above does nothing but demonstrate you are incabable of debating the issue without resorting to childlike deflection and name calling.

 

[richmonds]

I think he is whige

thats fine, being a moslem of bosnian background myself, i tend to agree, that anglo ideas are outdated, and sharia law is a much better way for this counrty to be ruled, hopefully eventually this will become reality

 

[mantis]

thats fine, being a moslem of bosnian background myself, i tend to agree, that anglo ideas are outdated, and sharia law is a much better way for this counrty to be ruled, hopefully eventually this will become reality

Dear dog, what year in school are you, grade 6?

 

[Upton Sinclair]

thats fine, being a moslem of bosnian background myself, i tend to agree, that anglo ideas are outdated, and sharia law is a much better way for this counrty to be ruled, hopefully eventually this will become reality

Richmonds just officially jumped the shark

 

[Malifice]

I dislike all immigration due to populations pressures. I disagree with immigration that doesn't consider social order issues. The Taliban was used as an example of a culture that would not fit into Australia society. Your circle jerk above does nothing but demonstrate you are incabable of debating the issue without resorting to childlike deflection and name calling.

Putting aside for a minute that I've disproved your population argument in my post above, you cite migration as your main beef then crap on about the Taliban.

How many Taliban are migrating to Australia anyways?

Aren't the vast majority of migrants to oz from Europe and new Zealand?

Over 50% are from the UK alone!

Why aren't you focussing on the Brits and kiwis?

 

[richmonds]

Putting aside for a minute that I've disproved your population argument in my post above, you cite migration as your main beef then crap on about the Taliban.

How many Taliban are migrating to Australia anyways?

Aren't the vast majority of migrants to oz from Europe and new Zealand?

Over 50% are from the UK alone!

Why aren't you focussing on the Brits and kiwis?

get yours stats right when you post, china and india are now the major countries where migrants come from, uk follows them , ( uk are not 50%, more likely 10%), hardly and migrants come from other european countries , majority are now from asia, phillipines vietnam korea, etc ,