Gold Coast and GWS has failed

[Coolangatta]

Just to elaborate on what that'd look like at 26 hypothetical teams (this is why expansion should take geography into account)

VIC 10
SOUTH-WEST 3 WA 2 SA (5)
NORTHERN 4 QLD 1 NT (5)
EASTERN 3 NSW 1 ACT 1 TAS 1 NZ (6)

Vic conference plays each other once, the other conferences play twice (unless they reach 7 teams but probably never). Then you play as many teams from other conferences once as possible (and play everyone else every second or third year if necessary).

23 home and away games per year (rotate Gather Round throughout the interstates plus the Top End).

Top 10 finals system with four playoffs (10 v 11, 9 v 12, 8 v 13, 7 v 14). Extra wildcards if a conference winner finishes below 14th in the final ladder.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

I wouldn't say stupid, but certainly have a bit of tunnel vision, being that they primarily only really care about how their club is going, and in one sense, that is understandable.

As for greater than 20 clubs, really, 18 already seems like a lot - it's really hard to envision a comp with more than 20 teams, and trying to keep track of up to 12 games per round.

And please don't try and tell me that geographic conferences is the solution (with 85% of the population living on the East side of the continent...oh, we'll put Geelong in the Western conference because they are 60km west of Melbourne, and North Melbourne goes in the Northern confernece, because, well, they have North in their name, etc. etc.)

I would actually say stupid, as a population we are definitely de-evolving, check the TV guide if you don't believe me, our brains are shrinking and life expectancy decreasing.

 

[Walshawk]

Just to elaborate on what that'd look like at 26 hypothetical teams (this is why expansion should take geography into account)

VIC 10
SOUTH-WEST 3 WA 2 SA (5)
NORTHERN 4 QLD 1 NT (5)
EASTERN 3 NSW 1 ACT 1 TAS 1 NZ (6)

Vic conference plays each other once, the other conferences play twice (unless they reach 7 teams but probably never). Then you play as many teams from other conferences once as possible (and play everyone else every second or third year if necessary).

23 home and away games per year (rotate Gather Round throughout the interstates plus the Top End).

Top 10 finals system with four playoffs (10 v 11, 9 v 12, 8 v 13, 7 v 14). Extra wildcards if a conference winner finishes below 14th in the final ladder.

What a mess. You can’t have conferences with such a disparity in size. The whole point of conferences is to even things out. This makes everything worse.

 

[Coolangatta]

What a mess. You can’t have conferences with such a disparity in size. The whole point of conferences is to even things out. This makes everything worse.

Yeah, you’re right, that is messy. I would prefer (if the AFL does expand beyond 20 in the future and I already know your thoughts on this) that they keep it to 22-24 teams max and keep a single tier league.

 

[Cyber_punk]

I do not consider GWS a failure at all.

Sure neither club has won a flag but culturally they are complete opposites. GWS are mentally tough scrapers who have taken it up to the best teams all over the country and have become consistent finals contenders while G.C are pampered party boys who melt away from home and it's been like this for years.

G.C need a deep and complete cultural do-over

 

[Aussie in exile]

The two expansion clubs are meant to be contending for a flag by now.

Gold Coast is struggling and GWS aren’t living up to their preseason expectations as flag favourites.

What has gone wrong with the GWS and Gold Coast expansion earlier this decade?

Both clubs are financial blackholes for the game and who ever thought that GWS would be a success in the Western Sydnet sports market should be shot.

 

[Colonial]

Both clubs are financial blackholes for the game and who ever thought that GWS would be a success in the Western Sydnet sports market should be shot.

And the clubs in Victoria getting extra funding not a drain I guess. Even though they have been around long enough to get their shit together in the heartland?

 

[BigVic]

They should've put Tasmania first instead of GC and GWS plus North Melbourne representing Northern Victoria as the Northern Kangaroos

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They should've put Tasmania first instead of GC and GWS plus North Melbourne representing Northern Victoria as the Northern Kangaroos

If North wouldn't move to the Gold Coast, why would they have moved to... Shepparton? Wodonga?

 

[Roylion]

They should've put Tasmania first instead of GC and GWS plus North Melbourne representing Northern Victoria as the Northern Kangaroos

The Suns and Giants were always medium to long term projects.

2050 projected populations (Australia is projected to have 37.6 million)

• Sydney - 7.7 million
• South East Queensland - 6 million (including Gold Coast's 1.1 million and Brisbane's 4.2 million).

The initial investment in the Suns and Giants will pay off handsomely in the coming decades.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Gold Coast will be fine, they just need a decent side.

I don’t understand why people care so much about the money. It would just be eaten up by larger footy department spending and a higher salary cap. It’s not like any club will ever fold because of debt or clubs won’t be able to meet the soft cap.

 

[Rob]

If there was ever a weekend that encapsulated both clubs.....

Giants came back from 4 goals down to win against one of the form teams.

Suns capitulated again against one of the worst teams in the league coming off a string of losses.

 

[Jirik13]

Both clubs are financial blackholes for the game and who ever thought that GWS would be a success in the Western Sydnet sports market should be shot.

Melbourne got 16M from AFL in 2023, 5M more than clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood.

I would get your own s**t together first before talking about expansion teams. 16K crowd at MCG against GWS?

 

[Walshawk]

The Suns and Giants were always medium to long term projects.

2050 projected populations (Australia is projected to have 37.6 million)

• Sydney - 7.7 million
• South East Queensland - 6 million (including Gold Coast's 1.1 million and Brisbane's 4.2 million).

The initial investment in the Suns and Giants will pay off handsomely in the coming decades.

Since 2012, Sydney’s population has increased by 20% (850k). Yet we have not seen a 20% increase in crowds, ratings, nor players drafted from Western Sydney. What make you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

Gold Coast hasn’t seen a relative increase in crowds either, but are at least producing players.

 

[Jirik13]

Since 2012, Sydney’s population has increased by 20% (850k). Yet we have not seen a 20% increase in crowds, ratings, nor players drafted from Western Sydney. What make you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

Gold Coast hasn’t seen a relative increase in crowds either, but are at least producing players.

I can't remember 4 sell-outs in any previous Suns seasons. So, I guess for this year, you're incorrect.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Since 2012, Sydney’s population has increased by 20% (850k). Yet we have not seen a 20% increase in crowds, ratings, nor players drafted from Western Sydney. What make you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

Gold Coast hasn’t seen a relative increase in crowds either, but are at least producing players.

Since these two expansion clubs came in, Melbourne's population has increased 25% - yet we have not seen a 25% increase in crowds (+8%), ratings (couldn't find city-specific FTA season stats before 2017, -36%) nor players drafted from Melbourne (~+/-2%). What makes you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

 

[Aussie in exile]

Melbourne got 16M from AFL in 2023, 5M more than clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood.

I would get your own s**t together first before talking about expansion teams. 16K crowd at MCG against GWS?

GWS couldn't draw flies around dog #### such is their lack of appeal.

 

[Roylion]

Since 2012, Sydney’s population has increased by 20% (850k). Yet we have not seen a 20% increase in crowds, ratings, nor players drafted from Western Sydney. What make you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

As the 12 year old Giants become more established in Sydney in the medium to long term that will increase in what is a rugby stronghold. 2024 has seen record Giants club membership with the club hoping to break 35,000 for the first time. That includes 6,000 Canberra membership.

48 players from the Giants Academy have made it onto AFL lists since 2012. 41 of those are from NSW..the remainder from the ACT.

 

[Walshawk]

Since these two expansion clubs came in, Melbourne's population has increased 25% - yet we have not seen a 25% increase in crowds (+8%), ratings (couldn't find city-specific FTA season stats before 2017, -36%) nor players drafted from Melbourne (~+/-2%). What makes you think that the next 25 years will be any different?

It won’t be any different. That is my point. Putting teams in places thinking that population growth will grow the game is folly. Most population growth is via immigration is from places that prefer other sports like soccer or one of the rugbys, and the AFL doesn’t seem to be attracting them to footy in Western Sydney.

As the 12 year old Giants become more established in Sydney in the medium to long term that will increase in what is. a rugby stronghold. 2024 has seen record Giants club membership with the club hoping to break 35,000 for the first time. That includes 6,000 Canberra membership.

48 players from the Giants Academy have made it onto AFL lists since 2012. 41 of those are from NSW..the remainder from the ACT.

Isn’t Briggs the only player on the GWS list from Sydney? When do you think more will start coming through?

 

[Atomboy]

Melbourne got 16M from AFL in 2023, 5M more than clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood.

I would get your own s**t together first before talking about expansion teams. 16K crowd at MCG against GWS?

$5 million is a match day taking for lukewarm meat pies at the MCG.

Hardly crippling the competition.

 

[Canberra Pear]

A reminder that the Giants have had four record crowds at Sydney Showgrounds this season.

Their crowds against North, Port, Carlton and Collingwood have all been the highest against those respective teams. The Suns game was only 300 from doing the same.

They'll need 11,234 to beat their best crowd against Freo.

Definitely tracking in the right direction.

 

[Roylion]

It won’t be any different. That is my point. Putting teams in places thinking that population growth will grow the game is folly. Most population growth is via immigration is from places that prefer other sports like soccer or one of the rugbys, and the AFL doesn’t seem to be attracting them to footy in Western Sydney.

Which is why we're talking medium to long term gains. Not short term gains in the mere 12 years the Giants have been in the AFL.

Isn’t Briggs the only player on the GWS list from Sydney?

Yes. And so? The Academy is producing AFL players. Western Sydney is a slower burn than SE Qld where last year the Suns drafted four of their Academy players - Will Graham, Ethan Read, Jed Walter and Jake Rogers.

When do you think more will start coming through?

In the medium to long term. Late 2030s onwards. Be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Macca180]

Melbourne got 16M from AFL in 2023, 5M more than clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood.

I would get your own s**t together first before talking about expansion teams. 16K crowd at MCG against GWS?

LOL...Good one. You honestly think the site troll likes and follows AFL.

 

[WesternSydneyHawk]

The Giants are here to stay.

Sydney can absolutely support two AFL clubs long term.

Look at it this way: The population of Sydney is around 5.1 million people. Adelaide has 1.3 million.

Even if three-quarters of the people in Sydney don't give a stuff about the AFL even casually, that remaining quarter is still larger than the population of Adelaide.

But.

What if very few of that quarter are in Western Sydney? What if the AFL homeland in Sydney is the eastern suburbs, lower north shore, upper north shore, and inner west?

Well then, they'll eventually relocate down the M4 Motorway to the SCG and become the Sydney Giants. Or the Inner West Giants. Or the North Shore Giants.

Of course, that scenario is still more than a decade awayand there's plenty more GWS can do to grow the game in Western Sydney before it comes to that.

 

[Colonial]

Of course, that scenario is still more than a decade awayand there's plenty more GWS can do to grow the game in Western Sydney before it comes to that.

Like be full time in Sydney.