Can anyone post some of this paywalled article…
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Gold Coast and GWS has failed
- Thread starter BigVic
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The Educator
All Australian
- Jan 23, 2023
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- Gold Coast
I am guessing you agree wholeheartedly with it (though you seem not to have read it yet)?
Foxtel are paying up until 2031 so we've got at least another 8 years after this one by my count.
How can I agree if I have not read it? Keen to read.
My thoughts are that both clubs are going as well as can be expected. I.e. a boost in junior participation, but little to no impact on the general population in terms of attendance, viewing habits or their preferred code. GC crowds are similar to when Vic clubs have previously played there, and GWS crowds are actually lower than North in Sydney in the 1990s. Their Sydney TV ratings are only marginally above games involving Vic clubs.
GC will always struggle (as will the Titans), and don’t reckon there is much the AFL can do to improve, but GWS can be fixed and need a serious makeover.
Broadcasters say they fear the AFL’s two expansion clubs - the Gold Coast Suns and Greater Western Sydney - are “going backwards” a decade on from their formation.
News Corp Australasia executive chairman Michael Miller - also a director of Foxtel and Fox Sports - has raised concerns over “a two-speed economy” in Australian sport at the SportNXT conference in Melbourne on Tuesday.
“We have some great sports in terms of AFL … (they) are world class in how they manage themselves, but at the same time, the concern I’d have around the Giants and the Suns - they’re going backwards,” Miller said.
Giants chairman Tony Shepherd told the Herald Sun on Tuesday night: “I think it’s fair to say that both clubs suffered during the pandemic. It’s very hard to build a fan base without an audience.
“And in our case we are in western Sydney, which is probably the most competitive sporting market in the world. But we are recovering from that now … and working very hard with the AFL on increasing our reach, which is what I think Michael is referring to.”
- Jul 14, 2012
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I think the expansion clubs should have a larger salary cap and/or list spots.
Atleast the option to have more list spots so they aren’t paying Rory Atkins type players well above their market value.
Atleast the option to have more list spots so they aren’t paying Rory Atkins type players well above their market value.
Verdict is still ~20-25yrs away
However
There is a reason every club ticked off on their concessions when you have 95% of the list from interstate what did they think was gonna happen? (lmao dont answer that) AFL is so tonedeaf to clubs outside of the mainland.
And now GWS have the problem of having about 6 players on close to a 1million a season just to ensure they wanna stay.
Shocked to be sitting here.
However
There is a reason every club ticked off on their concessions when you have 95% of the list from interstate what did they think was gonna happen? (lmao dont answer that) AFL is so tonedeaf to clubs outside of the mainland.
And now GWS have the problem of having about 6 players on close to a 1million a season just to ensure they wanna stay.
Shocked to be sitting here.
rollouthebarrel
Draftee
- Mar 19, 2023
- 16
- 15
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- Brisbane Lions
The biggest problem is the brand. They look like they were made up AFL marketing department and locals can smell a fake a mile off. Orange is not a great look on any jumper.
GWS means nothing. Greater Western Sydney even less. Who identifies with this fake rubbish? Plus they aren't really based in Paramatta and play in front of bigger crowds in Canberra than Sydney. Why be so specific with geography when they aren't identifying with it in their brand?
Suns sounds like a gimmicky basketball name. If they had a nickname that actually identified with the Gold Coast instead of generic Queensland rubbish then it might work. Gold Coast Sharks would be more fitting of an AFL club.
Brisbane Bears did it to become the Lions mainly because the koala bear and their pink jumpers were widely mocked by people in Queensland. they were called Brisbane but based on the Gold Coast. They changed the brand and look how well they've been accepted now.
Rebrand both teams!
Queensland Suns (play out of GC, Cairns, Mackay and dare I say it ... Springfield)
East Coast Giants (play out of Canberra, Blacktown, Wagga and ANZ Stadium + grow a following in Newcastle, Central Coast and Wollongong)
Start from scratch. The current brands aren't resonating with the locals. With a good brand, when they're doing well the crowds and TV audience will get behind them. I hope Tasmania get their brand right, I'm sure they will because it will have some history and identity behind it, not just a made up in some AFL strategy workshop.
GWS means nothing. Greater Western Sydney even less. Who identifies with this fake rubbish? Plus they aren't really based in Paramatta and play in front of bigger crowds in Canberra than Sydney. Why be so specific with geography when they aren't identifying with it in their brand?
Suns sounds like a gimmicky basketball name. If they had a nickname that actually identified with the Gold Coast instead of generic Queensland rubbish then it might work. Gold Coast Sharks would be more fitting of an AFL club.
Brisbane Bears did it to become the Lions mainly because the koala bear and their pink jumpers were widely mocked by people in Queensland. they were called Brisbane but based on the Gold Coast. They changed the brand and look how well they've been accepted now.
Rebrand both teams!
Queensland Suns (play out of GC, Cairns, Mackay and dare I say it ... Springfield)
East Coast Giants (play out of Canberra, Blacktown, Wagga and ANZ Stadium + grow a following in Newcastle, Central Coast and Wollongong)
Start from scratch. The current brands aren't resonating with the locals. With a good brand, when they're doing well the crowds and TV audience will get behind them. I hope Tasmania get their brand right, I'm sure they will because it will have some history and identity behind it, not just a made up in some AFL strategy workshop.
nah
Don't mind the idea of playing games on the Central Coast. Unfortunately there are no AFL standard ovals there though.
You started off OK, but then to suggest 2 nothing names that nobody would identify with? Jesus Christ.
The Suns problem isn't its brand, it's that they can't win a ****ing game.
It's too early to determine whether the clubs are a failure. Say you're a 10 year old kid when the Giants had their first season in the AFL, you're only 20 turning 21 now. Most people that age either haven't started or are just starting their career at that age, let alone started a family. We probably have to wait for those people to have grandchildren (so there's 2-3 generations of a supporter base) before judging it. Although we'll likely see the difference a bit earlier in participation numbers at junior football
- Oct 3, 2008
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- 8,067
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- Hawthorn
yeah probably need 25 years
- Oct 3, 2006
- 1,666
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- Richmond
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- Phillip Island Bulldogs/Lions AFLW
Funny how these clubs have been around for five minutes (relatively speaking) and the reaction from certain loud quarters for the first half was "OMG! THESE SUPERTEAMS WILL WIN EVERY FLAG AND DESTROY THE COMP" then almost straight after "OMG! THESE DUD TEAMS HAVE FAILED AND THEY ARE BRINGING DOWN THE COMP"
But expansion club Hawthorn (no finals for ~three decades, followed by five flags in seven years, threepeat, 13 since the 1960s) got none of that heat...wonder why?
But expansion club Hawthorn (no finals for ~three decades, followed by five flags in seven years, threepeat, 13 since the 1960s) got none of that heat...wonder why?
Giants and the Suns are not going anywhere, ever, people need to get the **** over it.
And there will be a 20th team and if I were a betting man, more than 20. Again, they’re just gonna have to deal with it.
And there will be a 20th team and if I were a betting man, more than 20. Again, they’re just gonna have to deal with it.
Gold Coast should have been the Southport Sharks a ready made club.
It was extremely foolish/arrogant of the AFL to think they could buck the trend of failed sporting clubs on the GC by trying to start a club from scratch!
I suggest it will take forever and hundreds of millions of dollars for the GC Suns to be successful both on and off the field in a soulless place like the GC.
Any normal business would have cut the underperforming Suns years ago!
As for the GWS unless the AFL can manipulate a way to keep them successful (witch the other clubs will not allow them to do) they will go the same way as the Suns sadly.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 1,666
- 3,488
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- Richmond
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Southport is basically the Port Adelaide of SEQ. Big club, big presence, plenty of success...but everyone hates them.
I doubt many of the PBC, Coolangatta, Surfers, Labrador or Broadbeach fans/staff/players/coaches/families would have taken much of a shine to the big bad in the AFL.
- Dec 9, 2015
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Agreed, they are both crucial, long term bets, 20+ years
Most people are too stupid these days to understand that sort of stuff
Yeah, not to mention, West Coast and Adelaide are proven examples of successful franchises started from scratch. Yes, they were the first in footy heartland states, but imagine promoting a state level club from a non-traditional market. That would've been even less successful than promoting a WAFL or SANFL club.
Gold Coast needed a club everyone can unite behind, and that had to be a new club.
Perhaps that's why the Sharks name wasn't used, although "Gold Coast Sharks" would've been a different club than Southport. I think as long as they had have used different colours from Southport it would've been fine.
Toump Ass
The Big Deal
- Jun 14, 2015
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Agree with the sentiment but I could see Suns get a cheeky little "rebrand" in the future.
- Oct 3, 2006
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- Richmond
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Exactly, would have been a huge headache...and for sure the same critics from outside the area would have argued the opposite point too if Southport wasn't immediately dominant.
I liked Stingrays (given the rep side) but I could see it wasn't the perfect name (links with Steve Irwin meant it was probably a bit too soon too)
As what? You mean the mascot or the Gold Coast name itself?
Toump Ass
The Big Deal
- Jun 14, 2015
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- Melbourne
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- Port Adelaide Power
All of it. The mascot, the name, the location. Rockhampton Rock Spiders, Townsville Dragons, Blackwater Alligator Men, Cairns Cobras, who cares.
Maybe keen the Suns name just to get the Suns fans following? Or just call it "GREATER QUEENSLAND SUPERSUNS***"
- Aug 17, 2014
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The Rory Atkins deal was so bizzare. 400k for 5 years.. was this because they had to reach the salary floor?
- May 13, 2012
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I wouldn't say stupid, but certainly have a bit of tunnel vision, being that they primarily only really care about how their club is going, and in one sense, that is understandable.
As for greater than 20 clubs, really, 18 already seems like a lot - it's really hard to envision a comp with more than 20 teams, and trying to keep track of up to 12 games per round.
And please don't try and tell me that geographic conferences is the solution (with 85% of the population living on the East side of the continent...oh, we'll put Geelong in the Western conference because they are 60km west of Melbourne, and North Melbourne goes in the Northern confernece, because, well, they have North in their name, etc. etc.)
Easy: Victorian conference, but they play each other once instead of twice because the other conferences would have 4-6 teams at most.
Conference winners automatically qualify for finals, the rest are arranged into a final ladder with several teams with the best W-L record qualifying for finals and the rest playing a wildcard knockout round to qualify for finals.
So, hypothetically, you could still have about 7-8 Vic clubs playing in the finals even though they're from the same conference because you are rewarded for your home and away season performance above all else.
It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of America's system but knowing the AFL if they ever moved to conferences, they'd **** it up and not address the valid criticisms of the American system.
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