Gold Coast and GWS has failed

[Fletched]

GWS couldn't draw flies around dog #### such is their lack of appeal.

Seventh Sell Out Set To See Gabba Roaring

The Lions have put the ‘sold out’ sign up at the Gabba for the seventh time this season, days out from a top 4 clash with GWS.

www.lions.com.au

Cope

 

[Colonial]

GWS couldn't draw flies around dog #### such is their lack of appeal.

4 sellouts this year at home, and playing Brisbane away at a sellout.

You have an unnatural hate for my club? Sculls was over a decade ago and was one player. Time to move on.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Seventh Sell Out Set To See Gabba Roaring

The Lions have put the ‘sold out’ sign up at the Gabba for the seventh time this season, days out from a top 4 clash with GWS.

www.lions.com.au

Cope

What has the Lions selling out to do with the Suns and GWS?

 

[RAPPA]

One thing that has certainly failed is the OP’s grammar skills with that thread title.

 

[PerthBoy86]

The Giants are here to stay.

Sydney can absolutely support two AFL clubs long term.

Look at it this way: The population of Sydney is around 5.1 million people. Adelaide has 1.3 million.

Even if three-quarters of the people in Sydney don't give a stuff about the AFL even casually, that remaining quarter is still larger than the population of Adelaide.

But.

What if very few of that quarter are in Western Sydney? What if the AFL homeland in Sydney is the eastern suburbs, lower north shore, upper north shore, and inner west?

Well then, they'll eventually relocate down the M4 Motorway to the SCG and become the Sydney Giants. Or the Inner West Giants. Or the North Shore Giants.

Of course, that scenario is still more than a decade awayand there's plenty more GWS can do to grow the game in Western Sydney before it comes to that.

Don't know the exact definition but I think half of Sydney's population could be classed as Western Sydney. It's a huge area.

 

[Walshawk]

The Giants are here to stay.

Sydney can absolutely support two AFL clubs long term.

Look at it this way: The population of Sydney is around 5.1 million people. Adelaide has 1.3 million.

Even if three-quarters of the people in Sydney don't give a stuff about the AFL even casually, that remaining quarter is still larger than the population of Adelaide.

But.

What if very few of that quarter are in Western Sydney? What if the AFL homeland in Sydney is the eastern suburbs, lower north shore, upper north shore, and inner west?

Well then, they'll eventually relocate down the M4 Motorway to the SCG and become the Sydney Giants. Or the Inner West Giants. Or the North Shore Giants.

Of course, that scenario is still more than a decade awayand there's plenty more GWS can do to grow the game in Western Sydney before it comes to that.

Way more than three quarters of Sydney folk have no interest in AFL. In Western Sydney it would be around 99%. Time will tell.

 

[Colonial]

Way more than three quarters of Sydney folk have no interest in AFL. In Western Sydney it would be around 99%. Time will tell.

I bet you would of thought the Swans should of been wound up in the early 90’s.

 

[catters05]

I do not consider GWS a failure at all.

Sure neither club has won a flag but culturally they are complete opposites. GWS are mentally tough scrapers who have taken it up to the best teams all over the country and have become consistent finals contenders while G.C are pampered party boys who melt away from home and it's been like this for years.

G.C need a deep and complete cultural do-over

I feel 2025 could be the arrival of the Suns with them doing some rebranding with new jumper etc, another preseason under Hardwick. That win last night hopefully gives the club a real boost. Crowds are growing at their nice stadium.

Probably doesn’t make sense, but imo the sooner the 20th license is given to Canberra, the better for GWS in the long term. The Giants can then play all home games in West Sydney and focus on that area alone and I feel the bigger commitment will bring in more new fans.

 

[Colonial]

Probably doesn’t make sense,

It does make sense.
If a parochial footy stronghold like Tassie needs a full time team, then a parochial region like Western Sydney that we want to get ingrained in the game definitely needs to be full time.

but imo the sooner the 20th license is given to Canberra, the better for GWS in the long term. The Giants can then play all home games in West Sydney and focus on that area alone and I feel the bigger commitment will bring in more new fans.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I feel 2025 could be the arrival of the Suns with them doing some rebranding with new jumper etc, another preseason under Hardwick. That win last night hopefully gives the club a real boost. Crowds are growing at their nice stadium.

Probably doesn’t make sense, but imo the sooner the 20th license is given to Canberra, the better for GWS in the long term. The Giants can then play all home games in West Sydney and focus on that area alone and I feel the bigger commitment will bring in more new fans.

Giants are also Canberra’s AFL team, so they don’t just belong to western Sydney exclusively. The Giants are contracted to play 3 AFL, 1 pre-season and 2 AFLW games in Canberra at least until 2032. There is no movement to change this status quo by the AFL, ACT government, Giants or the ACT community. Indeed the sold out games in Manuka show the support of Canberra for the Giants, and the current relationship with Canberra which has been in existence since the inception of the Giants in 2012. .

Whilst 2032 is a long way off, the current budgetary difficulties of the ACT Government and demands by other codes to spend $ for a new rectangular stadium, make it hard to see how this situation will change. Our ACT government was so cash strapped that in an election year, it only provided $200,000 to save our Canberra United female soccer team from folding due to significant community grassroots pressure, formal petitions in the Legislative Assembly and opposition political campaigns. Note, that this only enabled the survival of Canberra United for next season, so further ongoing pressures will ramp up.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Giants are also Canberra’s AFL team, so they don’t just belong to western Sydney exclusively.

The Giants don't "belong" to Canberra any more than North belongs to Hobart.

Sydney owns the Giants. Canberra rents them. They don't play here out of the goodness of their heart. If we stop paying, they stop coming.

Whilst 2032 is a long way off, the current budgetary difficulties of the ACT Government and demands by other codes to spend $ for a new rectangular stadium, make it hard to see how this situation will change. Our ACT government was so cash strapped that in an election year, it only provided $200,000 to save our Canberra United female soccer team from folding due to significant community grassroots pressure, formal petitions in the Legislative Assembly and opposition political campaigns. Note, that this only enabled the survival of Canberra United for next season, so further ongoing pressures will ramp up.

You keep bringing up ACT financials, but why will cost the ACT Government more for an AFL team of our own?

The oval is already looking promising regardless of a full-time team.

Most cities don't pay anything for their sports teams, or very little. The fact that the ACT Government is already paying $2.85m for an interstate team means that would probably just transfer over to a team of our own.

What will the ACT Government have to provide beyond that?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

The Giants don't "belong" to Canberra any more than North belongs to Hobart.

Sydney owns the Giants. Canberra rents them. They don't play here out of the goodness of their heart. If we stop paying, they stop coming.



You keep bringing up ACT financials, but why will cost the ACT Government more for an AFL team of our own?

The oval is already looking promising regardless of a full-time team.

Most cities don't pay anything for their sports teams, or very little. The fact that the ACT Government is already paying $2.85m for an interstate team means that would probably just transfer over to a team of our own.

What will the ACT Government have to provide beyond that?

Nope - Giants are also Canberra’s AFL team. I know you don’t like that but that doesn’t alter the facts. Our club’s constitution, specifically mentions ACT, as well as Western Sydney, as areas to grow and develop Australian Football. Happy for you to show the constitution of North that specifically references Hobart.

The 21 year relationship with Canberra (at least until 2032) is the longest relationship that Canberra has had with an AFL club, and has been great for the club, AFL, ACT Government as well as growing the game and the talent pathway in ACT. Whilst you might not like it, there is no move to change the status quo by the club, ACT Government, AFL or the wider community as seen by the sold out games that Canberra has been getting, unlike North in Hobart.

ACT Government’s financial constraints does play a big role in any future funding, and I don’t know why you think that $2.85 million is all that will be required from the ACT Government for a full time AFL presence in Canberra. The fact that the ACT government could barely afford $200,000 to save the Canberra United female soccer team from folding (that too despite massive community grassroots and political support), shows that there is no appetite for the Barr government to change the status quo.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Nope - Giants are also Canberra’s AFL team. I know you don’t like that but that doesn’t alter the facts. Our club’s constitution, specifically mentions ACT, as well as Western Sydney, as areas to grow and develop Australian Football. Happy for you to show the constitution of North that specifically references Hobart.

And if we stop paying, do they keep playing games just because we're in the constitution? If not, then we're just renting them.

ACT Government’s financial constraints does play a big role in any future funding, and I don’t know why you think that $2.85 million is all that will be required from the ACT Government for a full time AFL presence in Canberra.

Why does the ACT government have to pay any more?

As I said, getting perpetual government funding isn't common in the AFL. $2.85m is already $2.85m more than most teams will get. It's $2.85m more than WA3 will get.

Most AFL teams survive on next to zero government funding. Canberra already has the strong crowds and the high income, it can likely already stand on its own. That $2.85m will be on top of that.

I don't see why you think the ACT Govt would have to pay more than that.

The fact that the ACT government could barely afford $200,000 to save the Canberra United female soccer team from folding (that too despite massive community grassroots and political support),

You keep bringing up the $200k for Canberra United. It's not relevant. I'm not advocating for more than the $2.85m.

But I still think they were always going to pay, just holding back in the hope someone else would step up first.

shows that there is no appetite for the Barr government to change the status quo.

Recent comments from Barr shows there's some appetite for a change to the status quo.

 

[sydney_gws]

The Giants don't "belong" to Canberra any more than North belongs to Hobart.

Sydney owns the Giants. Canberra rents them. They don't play here out of the goodness of their heart. If we stop paying, they stop coming.



You keep bringing up ACT financials, but why will cost the ACT Government more for an AFL team of our own?

The oval is already looking promising regardless of a full-time team.

Most cities don't pay anything for their sports teams, or very little. The fact that the ACT Government is already paying $2.85m for an interstate team means that would probably just transfer over to a team of our own.

What will the ACT Government have to provide beyond that?

I think of they didn't pay GWS would maybe still play one game there in a season. That still leaves 10 games for Western Sydney, which is plenty.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

And if we stop paying, do they keep playing games just because we're in the constitution? If not, then we're just renting them.



Why does the ACT government have to pay any more?

As I said, getting perpetual government funding isn't common in the AFL. $2.85m is already $2.85m more than most teams will get. It's $2.85m more than WA3 will get.

Most AFL teams survive on next to zero government funding. Canberra already has the strong crowds and the high income, it can likely already stand on its own. That $2.85m will be on top of that.

I don't see why you think the ACT Govt would have to pay more than that.



You keep bringing up the $200k for Canberra United. It's not relevant. I'm not advocating for more than the $2.85m.

But I still think they were always going to pay, just holding back in the hope someone else would step up first.



Recent comments from Barr shows there's some appetite for a change to the status quo.

1. I don’t know. Since the Giants are Canberra’s AFL team, they may play here if the ACT Government does not pay them $2.85 million. You seem to state that that AFL teams survive on next to zero government funding, so 3 AFL games annually with the strong crowds seem feasible?

2. Barr did not say that he wanted a 20th team in Canberra. A careful parsing would indicate that he gave a non committal non-answer!

3. I think the issue of Canberra United is relevant. If the ACT Government can only give $200k, and that too after very significant community and political pressure, to a beloved female soccer team to save it from folding, it shows the budgetary constraints we are under. There will be similar pressure for Barr to provide more $ for Canberra United as the money given enables them to only make it through the 24-25 season. The difficulties in getting a full time A League men soccer team off the ground in Canberra (despite officially getting the go-ahead by the Australian Professional Leagues), show the economic, sponsorship and government funding difficulties for sporting teams in Canberra.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I think of they didn't pay GWS would maybe still play one game there in a season. That still leaves 10 games for Western Sydney, which is plenty.

I also think that just like in AFLW, there may be in future an additional home game for AFL clubs - i.e 12 home games instead of the current 11.

 

[Colonial]

I think of they didn't pay GWS would maybe still play one game there in a season. That still leaves 10 games for Western Sydney, which is plenty.

I could handle that with it during the Easter Show and the away derby then as well. Means we aren’t out of Sydney too long.

 

[Colonial]

1. I don’t know. Since the Giants are Canberra’s AFL team, they may play here if the ACT Government does not pay them $2.85 million. You seem to state that that AFL teams survive on next to zero government funding, so 3 AFL games annually with the strong crowds seem feasible?

It’s a sponsorship. No different to Tassie for North and Hawthorn

 

[Colonial]

I also think that just like in AFLW, there may be in future an additional home game for AFL clubs - i.e 12 home games instead of the current 11.

Western Sydney lose anymore games then give up on Western Sydney and move them there long term because it would kill the small growth we have now.

People keep saying “Canberra get better crowds” but Canberra was always going to.
Western Sydney was the long term. Generational. But they need to be all in.

 

[Canberra Pear]

1. I don’t know. Since the Giants are Canberra’s AFL team, they may play here if the ACT Government does not pay them $2.85 million.

I think you and I both know that's incredibly unlikely.

You seem to state that that AFL teams survive on next to zero government funding, so 3 AFL games annually with the strong crowds seem feasible?

We get stronger crowds than the Giants do for their respective Sydney matches, and they survive on $2.85m a year on (ACT) Government funding. Seems to reason that a Canberra team could survive on that, too.

2. Barr did not say that he wanted a 20th team in Canberra. A careful parsing would indicate that he gave a non committal non-answer!

Exactly. Non committal. Not committed to the Giants or a 20th team. So you're editorialising a bit if you say he's happy with the status quo.

3. I think the issue of Canberra United is relevant. If the ACT Government can only give $200k, and that too after very significant community and political pressure, to a beloved female soccer team to save it from folding, it shows the budgetary constraints we are under. There will be similar pressure for Barr to provide more $ for Canberra United as the money given enables them to only make it through the 24-25 season. The difficulties in getting a full time A League men soccer team off the ground in Canberra (despite officially getting the go-ahead by the Australian Professional Leagues), show the economic, sponsorship and government funding difficulties for sporting teams in Canberra.

Once again though, I'm not saying a Canberra team should get more than the $2.85m. If I were saying we needed more, it might be relevant, but the budget wouldn't change in the slightest towards AFL, so therefore, irrelevant.

 

[Colonial]

Most, if not all, the people ragging on the short term gains of the Suns and Giants were probably demanding the Swans get wound up in the early 90s.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Western Sydney lose anymore games then give up on Western Sydney and move them there long term because it would kill the small growth we have now.

People keep saying “Canberra get better crowds” but Canberra was always going to.
Western Sydney was the long term. Generational. But they need to be all in.

I don’t think the club, the AFL or ACT Government see it as a choice between WS OR Canberra - they are happy for the Giants to be the home team for WS AND Canberra at least until 2032. The club has almost 6800 members in Canberra alone (not sure how many in the neighbouring region) as well as many supporters, including especially kids like mine who were converted to the code due to the Giants school visits and community visits.

Also even among those who want the club to leave Canberra, some want the club to play some games in SCG/ Accor/ Henson rather than focus exclusively on WS

 

[Colonial]

I don’t think the club, the AFL or ACT Government see it as a choice between WS OR Canberra - they are happy for the Giants to be the home team for WS AND Canberra at least until 2032.

Because of sponsorship.

The club has almost 6800 members in Canberra alone (not sure how many in the neighbouring region) as well as many supporters, including especially kids like mine who were converted to the code due to the Giants school visits and community visits.

Not arguing that point.

Also even among those who want the club to leave Canberra, some want the club to play some games in SCG/ Accor/ Henson rather than focus exclusively on WS

Accor is next door to Giants Stadium.
Also all those in the same city.
Also we are talking 1 game not 3.
SCG would be an away game and no one has said Henson I wouldn’t think.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I think you and I both know that's incredibly unlikely.



We get stronger crowds than the Giants do for their respective Sydney matches, and they survive on $2.85m a year on (ACT) Government funding. Seems to reason that a Canberra team could survive on that, too.



Exactly. Non committal. Not committed to the Giants or a 20th team. So you're editorialising a bit if you say he's happy with the status quo.



Once again though, I'm not saying a Canberra team should get more than the $2.85m. If I were saying we needed more, it might be relevant, but the budget wouldn't change in the slightest towards AFL, so therefore, irrelevant.

1. Just as unlikely as the AFL and our financially strapped Government agreeing to a full time Canberra team - from our current 3 annual AFL games (and 2 AFLW games). This in an environment where a Aleague men’s soccer team cannot even get the government funding and sponsorship which would be significantly less than what an AFL team would require

2. No - I think you ambition for Canberra to be Team 20 is making you read things into Barr’s statement. The status quo is the default situation until it changes.

 

[Walshawk]

I bet you would have thought the Swans should have been wound up in the early 90’s.

No. And I am a massive Giants fan. Just think that the current strategy, which has not changed since 2011, is clearly not working.

The focus needs to be on Sydney.

1. Play all home games in Sydney. You can play around Easter at Accor, or Hensen, or Blacktown, or SCG.
Accor is too big, but a Pies game might draw 25k, followed by Swans.
Hensen and Blacktown would need further upgrades, and coild only handle 8k - 10k.
SCG would draw the biggest crowds. Some might say it is not in western Sydney, but it is 300km closer to WS than Canberra.

2. Redraw the Swans/Giants promotional and academy zones. It is rediculous that some western suburbs like Bankstown are zoned to Swans. Also the inner west which is a strong AFL area, should be aligned with Giants. If the Giants can gather support in the inner west, it will spread westward.

3. Change the name to Western Sydney.

Three easy and meaningful changes that will help to grow the game/Giants west of Central station. Make the changes whilst the Giants are still strong onfield.