Gold Coast Suns outdraw Gold Coast Titans

[fabulousphil]

Let's not get to ahead of ourselves after outdrawing the Titans after one game as the winds can change pretty quickly if the Titans were to rebound next year and when the Sun's honeymoon period expires is when we can really see if the Suns can stand up in the Gold Coast. It's possible for both teams to get along without killing each other off they can thrive together.

Let's go back to the Brisbane Lions during there premiership years there was those who proclaim QLD as a AFL state through this infamous thread.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166449

Now the premierships stop coming and the Lions hit rock bottom unfortunately, the moral of the story is not to jump to conclusions and declare premature victory as it will come back to bite you. Who knows what will happen in the next 5 years for both clubs who know both could be in top 4 with big crowds for both living happily ever after. We don't know I hate people deathriding other codes and I'm am a Leaguie also we can all get along.

Totally agree, for QLD to be regarded as a "AFL" state, their under 18's, under16's sides would need to play in division 1 at the nationals and have a good chance of winning, this would mean that the best athletes in that state would primarily be playing AF.

This of course does not look likely to happen, although a few years back they won the divi 2 title by a street and about 15 kids were drafted ( unlike the usual 4 or 5), this was around the time that the Lions were winning flags, and so it appeared that QLD was on the verge of change.

It is the country areas of QLD where RL is it's strongest.

 

[jonesy86]

Apparently the GC vs Collingwood game is close to a sell-out, after seeing the huge numbers of black and white in Sydney last week, there could be at least 1/3 of the crowd in black and white at Metricon.

 

[10571z]

GC v Coll has been sold out for over a month. I remeber talking about it on the Collingwood board. Everyone was suprised/upset as they wanted a mid year holiday to the gold coast haha

There are tickets going for 139 each on ebay atm

 

[Boppo]

hahaha nrl suck. Can't wait till their whole competition folds.

Not me, I hope they survive and offer a different product. Living in Sydney people often tell me that Aussie Rules is sh1t and hope it fails. Pretty ordinary attitude.

 

[BOMBERBLITZ]

I'm going to move to the GC and start supporting purely as Melbourne winter sucks!

 

[supernova_]

The GC/Geel game was supposedly sold out as well. But the attendance was listed as 21,485.

I would imagine something similar with a couple 1000 seats remaining empty, but the sold out sign still on the window.

 

[Tas]

You grossly underestimate picks 1,2,3,5+a shitload of other first rounders, +massive salary cap and they could just take all the players from last years draft when they were 17.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the points I have raised. Footy is cyclical, we all know that. The honeymoon period for GC is 6-10 years, that is when the AFL will bank roll them irrespective how they perform, they are meant to be financially independent after 6 years.

Gifting the Lions some premierships with a free club to pillage and a higher salary cap didn't create a financial powerhouse despite them being based in a city of 2 million people and the Lions benefit from one of the best stadium deals in the country with problem gamblers funding the vast majority of the stadium's financial needs.

While these markets, along with Sydney, seem like virgin markets ripe for the plucking, the competition for winter market sporting is very competitive with Rugby a significant attraction up north. While I do agree there is a market that is pro-AFL and anti-Rugby and there is a market that supports both codes I am not sure the AFL has done much more investigation other than general sentiment, which is very different to financial support.

I would be extremely happy if there is enough of a niche market to allow for the club to prosper and be successful, that would be a good result for footy. But, I think people are underestimating the extent of the challenge. This region has been an elephant graveyard for sporting clubs, they need to address the fundamentals which is the massive variance in support between when clubs are doing well and when they are not doing well.

Besides that, this is an important growth area, the AFL will guarantee that the Suns win at least 1 flag within 10 years. If they fail to do it with the players they have (I think there is very little chance of them failing) then watch them get some more salary cap, or have the free agency rules 'relaxed' for a player who wants to go there or similar.

AFL clubs wont agree to it, not after the mess that happened with the Lions. It did nothing really to resolve issues either, artificial success is no substitute for developing grass roots support and they have to come to terms with the fact sports are cyclical and there will be down periods sooner or late.

After a flag or two this decade, the AFL will probably let them go like any other club, and if theyll probably have an unsucessful period around 2023, but by then the AFL will have hoped to have grown the product in the area with strong grassroots support and they may be able to support it.

They are no guarantee for on-field success, if anything, clubs are determined to return the favour and put extreme salary cap pressure on the suns by offering buckets of money to players to return to wherever they came from.

The artificial cap that is in place will be gone by 2015 and declines between now and then and K.Hunt's next contract will have to be within their cap space as well.

 

[fabulousphil]

Gifting the Lions some premierships with a free club to pillage and a higher salary cap didn't create a financial powerhouse despite them being based in a city of 2 million people and the Lions benefit from one of the best stadium deals in the country with problem gamblers funding the vast majority of the stadium's financial needs.

.

I would disagree with this point, the Brisbane Lions had something like 6 million in the bank, but due to bad investment descisions, lost much of it, and due to bad management were forced to use it for day to day running, competent management should have seen them remain confortably in the black.

The lions have recently opened a club called Lions at Springwood, complete with pokies etc, and this clubhouse may provide them with some income.

This club in the true tradition of leagues clubs has around 60,000 members already.

http://www.lions.com.au/portals/0/BLS/index.html

 

[Simple Jack]

Not sure what any of this has to do with the points I have raised. Footy is cyclical, we all know that. The honeymoon period for GC is 6-10 years, that is when the AFL will bank roll them irrespective how they perform, they are meant to be financially independent after 6 years.

My point is, after the absolute failure of the Bears, the AFL have over compensated and the picks the GC recieved are too much and this will lead to onfield success (even if not premierships). During the honeymoon period, they should be reaching their peak, which would increase their following at least during that time. With a stadium deal supposedly comparable to Geelong, financial independance shouldn't be hard for them to achieve.

Gifting the Lions some premierships with a free club to pillage and a higher salary cap didn't create a financial powerhouse despite them being based in a city of 2 million people and the Lions benefit from one of the best stadium deals in the country with problem gamblers funding the vast majority of the stadium's financial needs.

Fair point, and I agree, however as I said in a previous post, the GCS are a start up team, being supported with lots of marketing and exposure (inc campaigner), brand new, first class facilities and unbelieveable young talent which will destroy the competition if they stay together and develop. The Bears wern't able to gain solid support, didn't have much success and then merged with a Victorian team, further diluting the local 'ownership' of the team.

While these markets, along with Sydney, seem like virgin markets ripe for the plucking, the competition for winter market sporting is very competitive with Rugby a significant attraction up north. While I do agree there is a market that is pro-AFL and anti-Rugby and there is a market that supports both codes I am not sure the AFL has done much more investigation other than general sentiment, which is very different to financial support.

Agree, but the AFL is pumping money into grassroots footy, this is not a short term battle.

I would be extremely happy if there is enough of a niche market to allow for the club to prosper and be successful, that would be a good result for footy. But, I think people are underestimating the extent of the challenge. This region has been an elephant graveyard for sporting clubs, they need to address the fundamentals which is the massive variance in support between when clubs are doing well and when they are not doing well.

Agree with this too, but by the time the GC are on their down slide (10 years or so) the hope is that the youngsters have been drawn in through on field success, and local participation.

AFL clubs wont agree to it, not after the mess that happened with the Lions. It did nothing really to resolve issues either, artificial success is no substitute for developing grass roots support and they have to come to terms with the fact sports are cyclical and there will be down periods sooner or late.

Completely irrelevant, the AFL will do whatever it takes to keep making money, which involves gaining some ground in the SEQ market. If the Gold Coast are struggling 5 years in, things will be done to pump them up the ladder. And people new to the game won't understand that their team winning the flag is artificial success, to them it will just be success.
And it won't be artificial success in lieu of grass roots support, it will be artificial success AND grass roots support.

They are no guarantee for on-field success, if anything, clubs are determined to return the favour and put extreme salary cap pressure on the suns by offering buckets of money to players to return to wherever they came from.

No one is a guarantee for anything, but I think a host of factors mean the chances of the GC winning a flag by 2021 are 85-90%

The artificial cap that is in place will be gone by 2015 and declines between now and then and K.Hunt's next contract will have to be within their cap space as well.

Yes it does, and yes it will. However, if GC are consistently bottom 4 by 2015 the AFL will step in to ensure success, they would do something like pay campaigner the minimum salary, and them pay him a 500k 'marketing fee' or similar.

 

[Freomaniac]

Apartently they are going to setup a team in WA and want to play games in Adelaide....maybe they should focus on the areas they are struggling to keep as NRL territory rather than focusing on pointless tasks which they've already tried and failed countless times

Funny you said that. And the NRL though the AFL started the "war". NRL tried to expand by putting teams to Perth and Adelaide in the 1990s. Short term it was successful but long term it failed.

You compare that to How the AFL Put a team in Sydney 1st then Brisbane. Sure they struggled in the 1st 10 years but eventually they were successfull and won a flag. Keep in mind the Average AFL game has a bigger crowd average than a typical NRL game and the Current TV rights deal shows it.

Thats the difference between AFL and NRL expansion. AFL actually put money in for Promotion and at grass roots level. NRL put up teams and expected to be run and profitable from the start and didnt give Perth and Adelaide a chance. Im from Adelaide and I dont know any SA rugby league at grass roots level.

Also Most AFL teams are owned by the AFL. Both SA teams are owned by the SANFL and both WA teams owned by the WAFC/WAFL.

NRL teams are owned by wealthy owners, Just like the English Premier League. Im glad the AFL is winning this battle in Gold Coast.

 

[AllSport]

As far as I'm concerned this is just round one between Suns & Titans no complete victory yet. As for NRL expanison imo they should of put more investment & promotion in the WA/SA team back in the 90's because they both show potential in there short life-times I'm sure if they did what the AFL did to the Swans/Lions sticking by them no matter what the Reds & Rams would of being here today. AFL fans should be thankful of the administration they have because if it was ran by the NRL style admin the Swans/Lions would of got the plug pulled at a moment of a bad situation which was there 1st ten years respectively.

2 years is not long enough for any team to establish themselves in particular in non-heartland territory GWS would find they out first hand.Patience is virtue.

 

[cos789]

This whole expansion thing is a very interesting exercise .
I was in Sydney when they started with exhibition matches and went on to move South Melbourne FC to Sydney .The VFL did their research and the Swans drew roughly the same crowds as those earlier matches .The Bears seemed to be a very disorganised affair and the VFL failed the Swans and the Bears in under capitalisation .

Obviously the AFL have done their research wrt the Gold Coast and the establishment of the SUNS is low risk shown by the initial crowds .It deffinitely is the honeymoon period but as curiosity tapers off then improving ladder position should take over .The SUNS have been recourceful in their choice of coach and players and have every right to be optimistic .

The GWS is a totally different execise but I can't see the AFL undertaking this team without a great deal of research .The common denominator is the investment in grassroots which has seen AR finally see large gains in this regard . This is one area where the Swans sufferred with a lot of adult support but not filtering through to the juniors .

The one good thing about AR expansion teams is that they do seem to gather momentum over time .WA has a history of new national teams starting incredibly strong only to fall relatively quickly despite good onfield appearances .Similarly there are a lot of examples around Australia .
.

 

[10571z]

Gold Coast will get behind them. They have there own team with a young exciting squad. They have the best home ground in the league! Be so good to have an exclusive team to your area.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

GC v Coll has been sold out for over a month. I remeber talking about it on the Collingwood board. Everyone was suprised/upset as they wanted a mid year holiday to the gold coast haha

There are tickets going for 139 each on ebay atm

The bolded part is really important and another driving factor of the long term success of the Suns. So many southerners will happy spend a long weekend on the Goldy to watch their team play. That's something I very much doubt Sydneysiders would do regards Titans games.

 

[10571z]

The bolded part is really important and another driving factor of the long term success of the Suns. So many southerners will happy spend a long weekend on the Goldy to watch their team play. That's something I very much doubt Sydneysiders would do regards Titans games.

Spot on. Take the kids to the theme parks ect.

 

[____]

To the best of my knowledge, there are no free tickets for the Suns games.

I got a free ticket for that game given to me by another person who had several free tickets.

 

[cos789]

The bolded part is really important and another driving factor of the long term success of the Suns. So many southerners will happy spend a long weekend on the Goldy to watch their team play. That's something I very much doubt Sydneysiders would do regards Titans games.

This was large part of the reason why the various stakeholders came together .

 

[serenityNow]

The crowd seemed to know the rules too which was surprising. Deliberate out of bounds etc.

Now they just need to stop being so gimmicky Ie: not playing music everytime the suns kick a goal.

Or just out of nowhere during normal play

 

[Rob]

I got a free ticket for that game given to me by another person who had several free tickets.

That doesn't mean they weren't paid for. It's pretty common for teams to provide tickets to their sponsors as part of a package and media outlets as contra for promoting the game.

Big difference between getting tickets from a sponsor and getting them because they were handing them out at the local shopping centre to anyone that's walking past.

 

[AllFooty4]

I like NRL and to see the comp fold would be devastating for me, although the absolute ignorance from so many league supporters makes me want to see it fall out just to prove them wrong. Wish everything could just be happy

 

[cos789]

I think this might have been mentoned some where else but a GC newspaper ran an online poll in it's rl section (not it's AFL section) on what provides better value the Titans or the SUNS . 70% in favour of the SUNS .

 

[10571z]

I think this might have been mentoned some where else but a GC newspaper ran an online poll in it's rl section (not it's AFL section) on what provides better value the Titans or the SUNS . 70% in favour of the SUNS .

That has been posted! It was like $45 for a family package to the suns to $80 for titans package. Thats AMAZING value seeing as a mcg ticket premium is $45 these days each. Suns stadium is great and you would have a good view i would imagine from anywhere. Unlike the mcg where you can be up in the heavens

 

[magic_johnson!]

That has been posted! It was like $45 for a family package to the suns to $80 for titans package. Thats AMAZING value seeing as a mcg ticket premium is $45 these days each. Suns stadium is great and you would have a good view i would imagine from anywhere. Unlike the mcg where you can be up in the heavens

Suns' premium tickets are $60, and every seating section (except general admin which the Titans don't have) is more expensive at Metricon for adults than at Skilled.

 

[Donstuie]

What I find amazing is the reaction from the Sydney media about the AFL 'invasion', in effect hyping it even more.

I remember when the Storm started up, I don't remember a word being spoken about NRL taking over or stealing supporters from AFL. I just remember Melburnians embracing the team, first as a curiosity (or as something to do when their AFL team wasn't playing) and then as a fully fledged part of the community. Might have lost a few AFL supporters to the Storm, but on the whole we were always happy to give them a chance. Hell, some AFL clubs even use some of their staff on occasion, or have Craig Bellamy address their team.

Imagine that shit happening in Sydney, forget it!

(I know this is a GC thread, but really it's about the NRL and their 'heartland')

 

[10571z]

Either way i tried to get tickets and its sold out. Me and a few mates were keen for a good weekend up there. Stay friday night go to a theme park saturday, hit the football go out that night head home sunday. Big fun weekend!