GWS are going to win the premiership

[Rotayjay]

I found the amount of hate that GWS get to be quite remarkable tbh. How else would you suggest the AFL create a new team in Sydney?

Give them average concessions, make it 5-10 years before they can actually be successful and prosperous? If they do almost everything right. Given the AFL climate in Sydney they had to be successful and quickly to have any chance. They gave the Suns and the Giants the ability to do this, but it was no guarantee for either team that it would lead to finals success within 5 years. Sure, the GWS have been able to absolutely make the most of what they were given, but it isn't entirely because of the concessions the AFL gave them. It still takes great coaching, culture, list management and patience to do what they did. They were given the tools to succeed and they absolutely made the most of it.

Just look at the Suns. They have been given essentially the same benefits as the Giants yet are still languishing in the bottom 8. Early on they didn't have great coaching, leadership, list management or a good culture. Look what happened to them, they were 'given' the same as the Giants yet are not a powerhouse team of all stars. There is a lot more that went into the Giants than simply "The AFL wants them succeed and will give them everything until they do". If that was the case, the Suns would also be in the top 4 right now.

The difference between to two expansion clubs is stark, especially when you consider they have received almost the exact same amount of benefits.

I disagree philosophically with this argument. Just because GWS have done a good job of utilising the opportunity they've been given, that does not mean the opportunity itself wasn't unfair.

Let's say there are 18 students about to do an exam. The two youngest students are given a lot of extra help - more than they need - and even given hints of a couple of the answers. One is lazy and incompetent, and doesn't use the opportunity so he still gets a pretty crap mark when the exam comes. The other studies properly and takes full advantage of the hints and leg-ups. He gets top of the class. So was it fair to give him much more help than the rest of the students?

 

[Bokonon]

Imagine GWS in the grand final, how shit would that be? Wouldn't even sell half of their, what? 15k seats? And if they won? It'd feel so manafactured and fake. Could any neutrals actually feel happy for them if they did win it?

We get you wont enjoy it, and thats an important part of the fun

 

[peternorth]

a really really tough situation today. The underlying feeling is that GWS will be assisted by the AFL who will quietly inform the MRP to exonerate mumford and johnson. Sydney (city) is an important market, as evidenced in the past with Barry Hall and Andrew Dunkley both cleared to play in their respective grand finals.

 

[Fyfetheknife]

We get you wont enjoy it, and thats an important part of the fun

Gee that's a little sad for you. Surely you would just enjoy your team playing in the grand final? You will be on of the 5 Giants fans there I assume? Feel free to PM me throughout the day if you need the rules explained

 

[Hawk Dork]

a really really tough situation today. The underlying feeling is that GWS will be assisted by the AFL who will quietly inform the MRP to exonerate mumford and johnson. Sydney (city) is an important market, as evidenced in the past with Barry Hall and Andrew Dunkley both cleared to play in their respective grand finals.

No doubt the AFL looks after their franchises

 

[peternorth]

No doubt the AFL looks after their franchises

it gives people the brace and bits

 

[Bokonon]

Gee that's a little sad for you. Surely you would just enjoy your team playing in the grand final? You will be on of the 5 Giants fans there I assume? Feel free to PM me throughout the day if you need the rules explained

Sad, I'ĺl be struggling to supress a smile for the next couple of weeks. Could well damage cheek muscles. Thanks for your concern, but what a wierd and stupid thing to say.

 

[dave123]

You can go, actually you ought to because you ain't got much.

Why is it a soft draw? Didn't we have to play the top team and 2nd top team twice?

Why is it a rigged draft? Apart from the establishment of the club, where are these fabled extra prime draft choices?

Didn't they get rid of the the COLA after buddy went to the Swans?

I can't think of a single club which did it as hard as the Giants, enduring two years of absolute thrashings, winning only 9 of their first 66 games.

It has been a long, hard, tough road - but we stuck it out and we are on the verge of reaping what we have sown - deservedly so.

As hard

You've been in the comp four years .....lol

Hard ....you were gifted draft concessions and cola.

 

[Coops93]

I disagree philosophically with this argument. Just because GWS have done a good job of utilising the opportunity they've been given, that does not mean the opportunity itself wasn't unfair.

Let's say there are 18 students about to do an exam. The two youngest students are given a lot of extra help - more than they need - and even given hints of a couple of the answers. One is lazy and incompetent, and doesn't use the opportunity so he still gets a pretty crap mark when the exam comes. The other studies properly and takes full advantage of the hints and leg-ups. He gets top of the class. So was it fair to give him much more help than the rest of the students?

If the other 16 students had been studying the test for the last 20 years and then the 2 new guys come in just for the last 4 years they should receive some extra support. If they top the class the others should have prepared better. The new guys still had to put in the work, as shown by the lazy alternative.

Put it the other way around. Everyone knew the new guys were coming and would receive benefits, and heavy ones at that. They could prepare properly and ensure the success of there future exams if they manage there study habits and prepare accordingly. They don't, and struggle. As expected, they say it's the new guys fault because they were given extra benefits. Meanwhile, there is one student who absolutely prepared for the new guys in the class continued to dominate in an era where everyone else whinges about the benefits given to the new guys. They've shown it can be done despite the extra support given to others.


What would you have given the expansion teams instead? Setting them up to build a fanbase quickly enough to support the club for years to come. And remember the market they're in, even though they've just had a very successful year they were still just pulling 9,000 to a game. So an unsuccessful GWS probably results in around 5,000 or less. How would you build a club to survive in that environment that didn't involve making it possible to win a flag within 5 years?

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

I have loved the way GWS have set their club up, recruited 3 or 4 old players that were there for their first year with a view to moving them to coaching positions in following years, (Cornes, Power etc). Giving their young recruits some experience heads around them.

Appointed a senior coach (Sheedy) who would continue to market the club positively no matter the results. Recruited Folau as a marketing tool to generate some interest.

Picked 3 key young players that they knew would be around for 10 years, Davis, Scully & Ward (as much as that hurt the Bulldogs).

Then picked the eyes out of the best young talent in the country. Finished where they expected in the first couple of seasons however continued to pick young talent in the draft and gain as many high draft picks as possible. Knowing that some high draft picks either would want to come home or would be looking for more opportunities, Plowman etc., they were able to trade these for the odd established player, (Mumford, Shaw) or for yet further high draft picks. They also managed to get the odd free agency player. (Patful, Johnson)

They don't complain when they lose players like Treloar, Bruce etc and they actively try to place players who might be struggling for senior opportunities at GWS, Phillips, Jaksch etc.

They played hardball on contracted player McCarthy showing other players that if you sign a contract you are expected to keep it and can't work out just because your manager negotiates a better deal at another club.

They are now in a position where they have so much talent they can trade out and continually top up. They will be a contender for a number of years based on all this early work.

 

[McRobie]

I don't.

Many would find it exciting to be part of something from the outset. Or, to put it in your terms, to be part of the "historical grounding".

Fair enough. Its not a dig, I just could never ditch the Swans for a start up club. I don't know why everyone gets so defensive about it, it's just a duscussion point. I'd be interested to hear how some of the Giants supporters became giants supporters and which clubs they used to support.

 

[Fyfetheknife]

I disagree philosophically with this argument. Just because GWS have done a good job of utilising the opportunity they've been given, that does not mean the opportunity itself wasn't unfair.

Let's say there are 18 students about to do an exam. The two youngest students are given a lot of extra help - more than they need - and even given hints of a couple of the answers. One is lazy and incompetent, and doesn't use the opportunity so he still gets a pretty crap mark when the exam comes. The other studies properly and takes full advantage of the hints and leg-ups. He gets top of the class. So was it fair to give him much more help than the rest of the students?

Riight. Except imagine there are other struggling students who get completely ignored by the teacher and fail. Is it still fair?

 

[dave123]

Yeah, because Tippet was unconscious for five minutes before being carried off on a stretcher in a neck brace and took no further part in the game....

Oh..... wait.....

Nope.

The Giants

AFL's puppet team

 

[dave123]

it will be a good day when gws win the flag. They won fair and square.

Now admit that freo will never win one! lol

Surprisingly I think freo will be top 4 next season .....

 

[Colonial]

As hard

You've been in the comp four years .....lol

Hard ....you were gifted draft concessions and cola.

Hi pot my name is kettle.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[sherb]

As hard

You've been in the comp four years .....lol

Hard ....you were gifted draft concessions and cola.

As you are so big on facts, this is the Giants' fifth season.

I might also point out that your club made the Grand Final in its fifth season and won it in its sixth. There's some facts for you.

Your attempt to take the moral high ground on this issue is extremely shaky.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Quoted wrong post.

Fair enough.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I think that's called good trading - of course we're going to keep the best and trade the duds....duh!!

So you didn't "gift" anybody anything.

Thanks for clearing that up then.

 

[Bokonon]

Fair enough. Its not a dig, I just could never ditch the Swans for a start up club. I don't know why everyone gets so defensive about it, it's just a duscussion point. I'd be interested to hear how some of the Giants supporters became giants supporters and which clubs they used to support.

The issue is how could you support a club that let Edelsten run it in the first place?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

From a hawks supporter

Here's a bit of free advice Nimrod, if you don't understand the point being made then don't embarrass yourself by posting on the matter.

 

[peternorth]

It is natural for big brother Swans to get aggrieved about little brother Giants scoring a historical win. If Richmond Centrals entered the AFL and after a few years of getting belted, one day came out on top I'd be pissed too.

 

[sherb]

The issue is how could you support a club that let Edelsten run it in the first place?

Were you around in the Edelsten years out of interest?

 

[Colonial]

Here's a bit of free advice Nimrod, if you don't understand the point being made then don't embarrass yourself by posting on the matter.

Name calling.

The arrogance of you.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[peternorth]

Fair enough. Its not a dig, I just could never ditch the Swans for a start up club. I don't know why everyone gets so defensive about it, it's just a duscussion point. I'd be interested to hear how some of the Giants supporters became giants supporters and which clubs they used to support.

i believe this to be similar to the Adelaide Crows when they entered the AFL. Some barracked for other teams (someone i know was a rabid hawks fan cum crows).

Clubs organically gain more supporters as time goes by, whether it be changing clubs or whatever. If people arent permitted to change clubs, the Giants would have basically none.

Sydney Swans are a different kettle of fish as they had the South supporter base to give them a base. In time, with assistance from the AFL, the Swans became a powerhouse. We think back to the dark days where there were hundreds if not 1000s of empty seats at the scg. Then the wins came, as did fans

 

[Bokonon]

Were you around in the Edelsten years out of interest?

My age is on my profile, and the answer is yes. It's why I stayed with an interstate club for all those years and had limited opportunities to watch games in that time.
All good in the end, the giants parachuting into my neighbourhood feels like Kharma. More luck than I deserve but they deserve more love.