GWS are going to win the premiership

[Colonial]

I can just imagine the barbs being thrown the way of WCE supporters back in 91 if BigFooty was around then.

"Franchise club"
"Soul-less"
"Only got supporters because of club-swappers"
"Concessions unfair"
"Juggernaut"
"Will win multiple flags"
"Other clubs' sacrificed to give them success"
"Premierships handed to them on a platter"
"Competition rigged"

Sound familiar?

I know ive read these before, i just cant place who it was aimed at....

 

[go you pups]

WCE, set up in Perth, the capital city of a footballing state

Yeah k

 

[Bokonon]

I certainly didn't see it as elitist at the time. Sure they got their share of hangers on, but that phenomenon isn't confined to either the Swans or that particular period. Or even to Sydney for that matter.

The problem was the model wasn't sustainable and the lack of ongoing success meant that the support dropped off. It's really only continued competitiveness over the last decade or more that has finally seen the Swans establish a solid core support base.

We will just have to disagree.

Yep
On that topic we will. I do feel for Swans supporters and respect their pride in their club. They have a place to vent on their own board though, and criticising our supporters integrity after a loss lacks class.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Draft picks do not guarantee success. Gold Coast are a shambles and they had a heck of a lot of draft concessions as well as signing the best player in the league. The Giants are a well-run club with a great coach, and that's in addition to a balanced young list. Their success has more to it than just the first round picks on the field.

GWS had more concessions than GC including the mini draft concessions and greater access to 17yo's. They also have the Riverina a footy rich area as part of their Academy, something the Suns do not. On top of that, the Suns have been decimated with injuries to their starting midfield. If Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara and Prestia had been averaging 20 games a season they would probably be in a similar position to GWS and would likely be playing this weekend.

The AFL have done a lot to ensure the Giants get off to the best possible start, yes. And it is important that GWS get off to a good start in order to attract an initial supporter base in a tough market.

They have done all they can to ensure "success" not just "competitiveness". If they need to cement their support in a tough market by winning a or multiple premierships then how sustainable are they? How will they go if they have an initial period of success and then a decade of poor performances like the Lions? Hell we don't even know how sustainable the Swans will be if they see a massive downturn in form considering they've been in finals/contending for premierships for 20 years now. 5 years of no finals/poor form will see them drop off dramatically.

I'm not against the expansion and want the clubs to do well - but I want it to be done on an equal footing, winning when you have an entrenched competitive advantage over your competition is hollow. I also have legitimate concerns about the sustainability of the northern clubs (Swans less so than the other 3) and how much money the AFL will blow over decades trying to prop them up. And yes, my concerns re: sustainability also extend to my own club and several others in the Vic market. However I know that those clubs at least have a core supporter base they can rely on of 20-50k and a larger base of a couple of hundred thousand of casual supporters. Once the wins dry up for some of the expansion teams I think they'll be in strife and it is difficult to see them weathering a downturn in success the likes of which other clubs have had over recent seasons/decades (Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, Port [even Hawks, Dogs and Saints earlier this century] as examples).

 

[Demonic Ascent]

My god, I've read some dribble in this (and many other) threads - but this would have to be the dribbliest dribble of all time.

How could it mean anything? You've never had any adversity to conquer (on field) and have been given competitive advantages which give you a higher probability of success than other teams - I can't imagine there would be too many Giants supporters crying in the stands like there were when the Swans, Cats and even the Lions broke their droughts.

 

[go you pups]

GWS had more concessions than GC including the mini draft concessions and greater access to 17yo's. They also have the Riverina a footy rich area as part of their Academy, something the Suns do not. On top of that, the Suns have been decimated with injuries to their starting midfield. If Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara and Prestia had been averaging 20 games a season they would probably be in a similar position to GWS and would likely be playing this weekend.



They have done all they can to ensure "success" not just "competitiveness". If they need to cement their support in a tough market by winning a or multiple premierships then how sustainable are they? How will they go if they have an initial period of success and then a decade of poor performances like the Lions? Hell we don't even know how sustainable the Swans will be if they see a massive downturn in form considering they've been in finals/contending for premierships for 20 years now. 5 years of no finals/poor form will see them drop off dramatically.

I'm not against the expansion and want the clubs to do well - but I want it to be done on an equal footing, winning when you have an entrenched competitive advantage over your competition is hollow. I also have legitimate concerns about the sustainability of the northern clubs (Swans less so than the other 3) and how much money the AFL will blow over decades trying to prop them up. And yes, my concerns re: sustainability also extend to my own club and several others in the Vic market. However I know that those clubs at least have a core supporter base they can rely on of 20-50k and a larger base of a couple of hundred thousand of casual supporters. Once the wins dry up for some of the expansion teams I think they'll be in strife and it is difficult to see them weathering a downturn in success the likes of which other clubs have had over recent seasons/decades (Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, Port [even Hawks, Dogs and Saints earlier this century] as examples).

Spot on

 

[Demonic Ascent]

What is amazing is I can clearly see what the MRP will think today after getting a text from Gillon ...."don't suspend them boys we need the Giants to win"

No case to answer for Johnson or thug Mumford

It's effimg rigged mate

Well, one of the MRP members (Christian) was already on radio yesterday making excuses and the AFL website is on to it saying the evidence isn't conclusive - no way he gets anything more than a week if that.

If you want to know how this would be handled, just go and have a look at the Tribunal results following the Preliminary Finals in 2005.

 

[HairyO]

lol, did you happen to catch the results yesterday?

Did you catch the Finals Week 1 West Coast vs Hawthorn game last year? We were hopeless, aye?

 

[grouse mate]

I have an idea - how about we abstain from making new clubs in stupid areas and trying to make sure they have quick success in a desperate attempt to get more than 3 people interested? If the area is simply not interested in footy, the rest of us supporters should not be sacrificed (in terms of premierships) in order to try and get respectable crowds for unwanted expansion teams.

2016 Week 1 finals crowds

WA - 42k
SA - 49k
SYD - 60k

How about you abstain from posting nonsense.

 

[Colonial]

2016 Week 1 finals crowds

WA - 42k
SA - 49k
SYD - 60k

How about you abstain from posting nonsense.

Was sa and wa a sellout?

 

[go you pups]

What is amazing is I can clearly see what the MRP will think today after getting a text from Gillon ...."don't suspend them boys we need the Giants to win"

No case to answer for Johnson or thug Mumford

It's effimg rigged mate

Yep, yet Lin Jong gets sent to the cleaners by the MRP after Buntine the tool (plays for the lovechild) runs a million miles an hour into Jong when Jong was attacking the footy running with the flight of the ball and Buntine overruns the ball and straight into Jong while Jong tries to slow down......

Can see it happening

 

[Bokonon]

Need to get through Hawthorn at Spotless first!!!

Last time we met them there ar...um..
It wasn't a final though.

It wasn't a final though. Wish we could take it and make it to town the following week

 

[Kram]

2016 Week 1 finals crowds

WA - 42k
SA - 49k
SYD - 60k

How about you abstain from posting nonsense.

They may have to resort to giving away tickets to the Prelm in WS though.

 

[Kram]

Was sa and wa a sellout?

Yes.

 

[Colonial]

Yes.

Cheers. Was actually a genuine question.
Crazy in these fear threads i know.

 

[Colonial]

They may have to resort to giving away tickets to the Prelm in WS though.

They do in the nrl and it doesnt fill em.

Besides they havent gone on sale yet. Lets wait and see.

 

[grouse mate]

They may have to resort to giving away tickets to the Prelm in WS though.

Incredibly unlikely.

 

[Bokonon]

I had $100 on them at $8 or $9. Come on the Giants! Plus I'd love to see Patfull both play in a premiership and win one. He was so underrated by the football world at the Lions. Bloody great bloke too.

Sadly might be his last chance. Has done more than his share to add spine to our defence the last couple of years.

 

[Vankri]

It's obvious the AFL went overboard with the setup of GWS. They just couldn't afford them to fail so gave them way too much, making their inevitable success artificial and manufactured.

You could possibly justify it if you knew it would create long term support but the AFL equation of 'short term artificial success = long term support' is simply flawed. Teams don't gather real long term support by having the league administration actively push their success early on, and Brisbane is a perfect example of that.

The problem with the AFL is one of priorities. The 'code war' and the appeal of the TV dollars take precedence over the long term support and sustainability of the league. If expansion was done logically, it would start at grass roots, conquer logical areas of support like Tassie or a new WA team and there would be no reason to go overboard with compensations because the teams created would not have to win multiple early flags to gather some sort of support.

If you apply the AFL's logic to the extreme, you could justify creating an Australia-based Chinese national team in the AFL and give them the first 5 picks of the draft in perpetuity and an extra $5 million in the salary cap to ensure they dominate, just because there is money to be made by broadcasting these games in China, even though it would make a mockery of the competition locally.

It's an absurd example to show the logic to the extreme, but it's to illustrate that the biggest risk with manufactured success is to lose some actual long term support in the game's base markets.

 

[McRobie]

The issue is how could you support a club that let Edelsten run it in the first place?

....i wasn't born wheb Edelsten took over.

 

[Colonial]

It's obvious the AFL went overboard with the setup of GWS. They just couldn't afford them to fail so gave them way too much, making their inevitable success artificial and manufactured.

You could possibly justify it if you knew it would create long term support but the AFL equation of 'short term artificial success = long term support' is simply flawed. Teams don't gather real long term support by having the league administration actively push their success early on, and Brisbane is a perfect example of that.

The problem with the AFL is one of priorities. The 'code war' and the appeal of the TV dollars take precedence over the long term support and sustainability of the league. If expansion was done logically, it would start at grass roots, conquer logical areas of support like Tassie or a new WA team and there would be no reason to go overboard with compensations because the teams created would not have to win multiple early flags to gather some sort of support.

If you apply the AFL's logic to the extreme, you could justify creating an Australia-based Chinese national team in the AFL and give them the first 5 picks of the draft in perpetuity and an extra $5 million in the salary cap to ensure they dominate, just because there is money to be made by broadcasting these games in China, even though it would make a mockery of the competition locally.

It's an absurd example to show the logic to the extreme, but it's to illustrate that the biggest risk with manufactured success is to lose some actual long term support in the game's base markets.

The chance they have taken with every start up clubs concessions (except freo)

 

[OneEyedHawk]

The AFL's Frankenstein has come to life.

 

[McRobie]

My age is on my profile, and the answer is yes. It's why I stayed with an interstate club for all those years and had limited opportunities to watch games in that time.
All good in the end, the giants parachuting into my neighbourhood feels like Kharma. More luck than I deserve but they deserve more love.

Its like me saying how could you go for a club that's been fully manufactured by the AFL?

 

[Gigantor]

Imagine GWS in the grand final, how shit would that be? Wouldn't even sell half of their, what? 15k seats? And if they won? It'd feel so manafactured and fake. Could any neutrals actually feel happy for them if they did win it?

For once, all members would be able to get a GF ticket - sounds absolutely fantastic to me!

 

[Demonic Ascent]

2016 Week 1 finals crowds

WA - 42k
SA - 49k
SYD - 60k

How about you abstain from posting nonsense.

Prelim final crowds? I assume not many Swans supporters will be turning up to that game