GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[Teen Wolf]

The discussion was in the context of what is acceptable crowds. Me saying the word "meaningfully" or "to levels that would help securire financial independence and security for GWS" is implied after the post saying their crowds haven't improved.

Given it's been explicitly stated by the AFL that GWS aren't expected to be financially independent after 12 years, your implication is redundant.

I think the range of crowds to GWS is a lot closer to not growing at all, as is a lore reasonable assessment of their crowd situation, opposed to some general belief of constant 45% growth over consecutive decades that can be easily debunked through common sense of what actually contributes to the crowd.

I do not that they will get 19k average crowds in 2034, even if you give them one sell-out crowd at the SCG. It suggests that a typical crowd at Showgrounds in a non-marquee slot would increase several thousand more on average average than the increase that has already taken place (of a couple of thousand so far) which is just not a common sense projection.

It's common sense that crowds for non-marquee games take longer to grow significantly. Build up exposure with games vs Sydney, Collingwood etc and after a long period (like 25-30 years, as has always been stated), the raw numbers for other matches will increase rapidly.

In the meantime you'll just have to be content with overall GWS crowds continuing to massively outgrow the leaguewide rate. What a nightmare.

 

[kranger]

Totally agree.

I don't support the Giants because of the geographical affiliation or where I live. It just so happens that I live in Western Sydney.

I assume Western was required to be added to the name so as not to encroach on the name of Sydney (Swans) but there is sufficient distinction between the two clubs irrespective of location. I don't think location is a significant pull factor nowadays, perhaps in times gone by, yes, but not so much nowadays, IMO. People can support clubs from further afield (and do!).

Swans branding is strong enough nowadays that it's unlikely to be confused by a secondary club regardless of the secondary clubs geographical affiliation. Let alone one with orange as its colour.

Can understand that many will disagree because geographical affiliation can hold significant pull factor but it's probably not as important for certain demographics nowadays.

I’m not necessarily replying directly to YoYo, more just using their post as a segway.

But Fremantle Dockers AFLM don’t play games in Fremantle, they play in the best Stadium in Perth near the CBD. And both the Men’s and Women’s teams draw supporters from all over Perth, as they are seen as a second Perth team, not just a team for the population in Fremantle and the south-western suburbs of Perth.

The same for Port Adelaide.

I see GWS as also being the same. A second Sydney team.

Yes, GWS have a geographic name, but so does every team in Melbourne, and yet the nine Melbourne teams play out of only two stadiums in the CBD.

And why did the Melbourne teams leave their suburban grounds from their geographic locations? Because playing in the CBD at the heart of the public transport network, with hospitality venues nearby, in larger capacity and modern stadiums is more accessible and enjoyable for a greater portion of the population catchment.

Sydney geographically is different than Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide, with Showgrounds Stadium more central to the population. But the SCG is a better venue, the trains from the north and south go to the CBD not Parramatta, and Homebush Stadium is just too big of a capacity.

The SCG should not be seen as the rival’s home ground, but as the best AFL Stadium in Sydney, which GWS should look to capitalise on.

Edit: after all, Penrith to the SCG is only 50km. That’s closer than Pakenham (south-east) to the Melbourne Cricket Ground, and closer than Yanchep (north) or Mandurah (south) to Perth Stadium. As big of a city Sydney is population wise, it is rather dense and compact area wise.

 

[Walshawk]

I stumbled across some articles from early 2010 where the AFL was projecting crowds of between 15k - 17k for the new Western Sydney team’s nine games at Showgrounds. The other two games were supposed to be at ACCOR (v a big Vic club and Swans, Swans return match also to be at ACCOR). No mention of Canberra at that stage.

EDIT - the 15k - 17 average may have included the two ACCOR games. Still, that is 50% higher than the actual crowd average.

 

[Philhawk]

Sydney geographically is different than Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide, with Showgrounds Stadium more central to the population. But the SCG is a better venue, the trains from the north and south go to the CBD not Parramatta, and Homebush Stadium is just too big of a capacity.

The SCG should not be seen as the rival’s home ground, but as the best AFL Stadium in Sydney, which GWS should look to capitalise on.

Well said.

There’s plenty of “giants” fans I know who live in Sydney Central/East who have never been to a single “home” game out west.

The SCG is criminally underutilized by the Giants.

 

[Bjo187]

I always thought at the time, going in cold turkey and not via a relocated club was nuts, particularly in an area that A. Didn't demand a team and B. Is actively hostile towards the AFL via the Sydney/nrl media hit job on the giants.

When you start with a core supporter base as a fall back option everything thereafter is an add on. Starting a team off zero fans was a mistake. Now they do have fans, but probably aren't where they would have been at year one off a relocated side. North as the second Sydney team instead of the gold coast proposal might have gotten up and would have been smarter, as the gold coast is a footy area more so, so would have attracted instant fans. The giants have literally had to work for every single fan they've got.

 

[Philhawk]

I should add, I've been to Giants games in Canberra and they do a terrific job down there. There's a real sense of community on Game Days and there's great nightlife in and around the game post match. Swans similarly do a great job in the Moore Park area both pre and post game too.

There is precisely zero of this around Showgrounds when Giants play.

 

[Coolangatta]

I always thought at the time, going in cold turkey and not via a relocated club was nuts, particularly in an area that A. Didn't demand a team and B. Is actively hostile towards the AFL via the Sydney/nrl media hit job on the giants.

When you start with a core supporter base as a fall back option everything thereafter is an add on. Starting a team off zero fans was a mistake. Now they do have fans, but probably aren't where they would have been at year one off a relocated side. North as the second Sydney team instead of the gold coast proposal might have gotten up and would have been smarter, as the gold coast is a footy area more so, so would have attracted instant fans. The giants have literally had to work for every single fan they've got.

Yeah.

North Sydney Kangaroos, then Tassie Devils and GC Sharks to make it 18 teams. Hell, maybe even Western Sydney Bulldogs as well and really go big in Sydney.

I’d love to say then do Canberra and WA3 as teams 19 and 20, but that would had to have been AFL driven because I can’t imagine either of those two demanding to be team 19.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I’m not necessarily replying directly to YoYo, more just using their post as a segway.

But Fremantle Dockers AFLM don’t play games in Fremantle, they play in the best Stadium in Perth near the CBD. And both the Men’s and Women’s teams draw supporters from all over Perth, as they are seen as a second Perth team, not just a team for the population in Fremantle and the south-western suburbs of Perth.

The same for Port Adelaide.

I see GWS as also being the same. A second Sydney team.

Yes, GWS have a geographic name, but so does every team in Melbourne, and yet the nine Melbourne teams play out of only two stadiums in the CBD.

And why did the Melbourne teams leave their suburban grounds from their geographic locations? Because playing in the CBD at the heart of the public transport network, with hospitality venues nearby, in larger capacity and modern stadiums is more accessible and enjoyable for a greater portion of the population catchment.

Sydney geographically is different than Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide, with Showgrounds Stadium more central to the population. But the SCG is a better venue, the trains from the north and south go to the CBD not Parramatta, and Homebush Stadium is just too big of a capacity.

The SCG should not be seen as the rival’s home ground, but as the best AFL Stadium in Sydney, which GWS should look to capitalise on.

Edit: after all, Penrith to the SCG is only 50km. That’s closer than Pakenham (south-east) to the Melbourne Cricket Ground, and closer than Yanchep (north) or Mandurah (south) to Perth Stadium. As big of a city Sydney is population wise, it is rather dense and compact area wise.

Since at least 2018 GWS have also been promoting themselves as GIANTS

Name changer: Have the Giants dropped GWS?

GWS wants its nickname - in capitals - to replace its formal moniker

www.afl.com.au

 

[Walshawk]

Since at least 2018 GWS have also been promoting themselves as GIANTS

Name changer: Have the Giants dropped GWS?

GWS wants its nickname - in capitals - to replace its formal moniker

www.afl.com.au

They need to be Western Sydney. Not GWS.

 

[Aussie in exile]

They need to be Western Sydney. Not GWS.

I think that boat has sailed.

 

[mchal4]

I think that boat has sailed.

why can't they just go and change it ?

 

[Aussie in exile]

why can't they just go and change it ?

Because they will be admitting that the made a mistake calling them GWS, Greater Western Sydney, when there is no such place.

 

[Walshawk]

Because they will be admitting that the made a mistake calling them GWS, Greater Western Sydney, when there is no such place.

They can change it.

Dogs have changed, North have changed twice, Geelong has added ‘Cats’, and WC have dropped ‘Eagles’.

Giants can drop one word. It was their original name anyway.

 

[mchal4]

They can change it.

Dogs have changed, North have changed twice, Geelong has added ‘Cats’, and WC have dropped ‘Eagles’.

Giants can drop one word. It was their original name anyway.

West Sydney Giants ( and wearing sky blue state colours )

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Because they will be admitting that the made a mistake calling them GWS, Greater Western Sydney, when there is no such place.

Also the admin has been branding us as GIANTS for the past few years - don’t think there is any move to change from that

 

[Walshawk]

Also the admin has been branding us as GIANTS for the past few years - don’t think there is any move to change from that

There would be much more cut through in the Sydney media if the words Western SYDNEY were used rather than the nondescript giants. West SYDNEY GIANTS is great.

Orange and Sky Blue should have been the colours. What a combination:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/10852/production/_107566676_dbd23663-790c-4ee4-b348-2b753a5a3ce9.jpg.webp

 

[Bjo187]

There would be much more cut through in the Sydney media if the words Western SYDNEY were used rather than the nondescript giants. West SYDNEY GIANTS is great.

Orange and Sky Blue should have been the colours. What a combination:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/10852/production/_107566676_dbd23663-790c-4ee4-b348-2b753a5a3ce9.jpg.webp

Yep the perfect contrast to red, cross town rival in blue. It's such a great colour combination too. The afl must have been worried there were too many blue teams in the competition.

 

[errant bounce]

Always should they just should have been Western Sydney Wolves.

The charcoal is great but they should have had sky blue instead of orange.

Orange needed to get snatched somewhere, should have potentially given that to Gold Coast. suns are, yknow, orange as well.

'Giants' is a bland arse name.

 

[Bjo187]

Always should they just should have been Western Sydney Wolves.

The charcoal is great but they should have had sky blue instead of orange.

Orange needed to get snatched somewhere, should have potentially given that to Gold Coast. suns are, yknow, orange as well.

'Giants' is a bland arse name.

I always wanted western sydney wolves in blue and orange. Original name and colours from any team in Australia and wolves sounds tough.

The giants has improved over time with more black than grey and some good clash strips, but I remember being devo on their release and the suns release as well.

 

[mchal4]

Is there any point just calling them Homebush ? or would that not work ?

 

[RedV3x]

Is there any point just calling them Homebush ? or would that not work ?

Ah Homebush, that posts envisions of someone who hasn't waxed lately.

 

[RedV3x]

The afl must have been worried there were too many blue teams in the competition.

Too right. You could have had like the Sturt double blues or East Perth black and blue but too close to the NSW state blues.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

A Giant upset! GWS stuns Blues in boilover

The Giants have climbed back into the top eight with a huge upset win over Carlton

www.afl.com.au

All for expansion in NSW / QLD in the future (once Tasmania & Canberra enter the league to make 20 clubs) but reckon the AFL would be a little concerned over the attendance last night (11.7k) given as it was against one of the big VIC clubs as well and it's now Yr 12 for the Giants.

Would have imagined that if the match was played in Canberra, it would've have been a sold-out possibly (Canberra Pear could help with this).

Still think the preference would be the Giants to stay in NSW full-time though but the AFL needs to do heaps more to invest and promote the code in Western Sydney & the GIANTS club brand.

 

[Giant YoYo]

A Giant upset! GWS stuns Blues in boilover

The Giants have climbed back into the top eight with a huge upset win over Carlton

www.afl.com.au

All for expansion in NSW / QLD but reckon the AFL would be a little concerned over the attendance last night (11.7k) given as it was against one of the big VIC clubs as well and it's now Yr 12 for the Giants.

Fair but more context needed. How many people thought that was going to be a competitive game by the Giants? It's been raining in Sydney for most of the week and we've had many recent wet games where most of our recent wet or damp games have been near unwatchable.

Most Giants fans thought we would be pumped and the mood was definitely down. We skew heavily towards families with young kids and the timeslot is not good for those families which were visually down on number last night.

The Giants do not operate in a vacuum where external factors do not impact attendance. It shows more because we have a smaller base.

The attendance number was our biggest Carlton crowd at the stadium. It's over 13% higher than our next highest Carlton game.

Still think the preference would be the Giants to stay in NSW full-time but the AFL needs to do heaps more to invest and promote the code in Western Sydney & GIANTS.

Agree.

FWIW - I'd love a greater number of attendees to our games at Engie stadium.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Fair but more context needed. How many people thought that was going to be a competitive game by the Giants? It's been raining in Sydney for most of the week and we've had many recent wet games where most of our recent wet or damp games have been near unwatchable.

Most Giants fans thought we would be pumped and the mood was definitely down. We skew heavily towards families with young kids and the timeslot is not good for those families.

The Giants do not operate in a vacuum where external factors do not impact attendance. It shows more because we have a smaller base.

The attendance number was our biggest Carlton crowd at the stadium. It's over 13% higher than our next highest Carlton game.


Agree.

FWIW - I'd love a greater number of attendees to our games at Engie stadium.

Thanks for that info Giant YoYo and my apologies for not realising that was GWS highest home attendance against Carlton so it does slightly subtract my concern last night and hopefully attendances do increase soon in NSW with appropriate family time-slots and the weather ofc against all clubs in the future.

The other factor that shouldn't be discounted with our arguments is COVID destroyed quite a bit of momentum for GWS (and GC in some way) growth so while I did mention they are in Yr 12 rn, probably should have gave them some slack to see how they are going.

Still think the AFL and AFLNSW needs to invest more funding, resources and time into AFL in those suburbs though given the rise of NRL in Penrith, Parramatta and etc lately but they would be concerned if they did that, the Victorian clubs would revolt if GIANTS became a power-house as a result (just ask the Swans).

FWIW: Little context, I've actually lived in Canberra for 4-5 years so have been fortunate enough to attend a couple of GIANTS home matches in the ACT and have always had a little soft spot for them while living there so I do hope they grow into a very successful club in the future and was not trying to put them down by any means, hence why they should play all their matches at ENGIE moving forward.

Great win though by GIANTS last night btw