Hoos
Hooplehead
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Not me. If he coaches again he'll be the opposition.
Hardwick quits
- Thread starter Yappie dribbles
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Very doubtful he'll be coaching next year, not a chance.
And then it's fraught for anyone who takes him on after that, even a few years down the track. He will never regain that passion and drive that permeated his first gig at the Tigers.
Best bet is becomes a Balmey-like character at some club, although that would probably have the incumbent coach looking over his shoulder at every poor loss.
Put out your visorsMay madnees sale at PRO Roar store just announced..
..all the Dimma merch at 75% off?
Today was a large portion of the reason I held a certain level of disappointment towards Dimma to resign, effective immediately.
As well as the obvious on-field & off-field chaos it creates after the club selling the farm in the off-season, it didn't allow the club, the former players and most importantly, the supporters to say goodbye - not just to Dimma, but the end of the Dynasty Era.
Today was the first day of the new era, the Dynasty era is 100% closed with Dimma gone. I am sure the club will find a way to honour it in a far more grandiose manner in the future & I can tell you now, it will mean only 1/10th of what today meant - as TODAY was the day it needed to happen.
30,000 on a sunday arvo at the MCG. No Dimma. No former players waving them off. No walking off the field to roaring supporters chanting "Dimma". I have listened to Dimma's farewell speech possibly 10 times now & the bit that always catches me is when he says "I want to leave this place with the best feelings possible"
Today was not even close to "The best feelings possible". Benny's face at the conference, did not give me great feels. The poultry crowd attending the match, did not make my bean twitch. The lack of fanfare and passion from a club called Richmond, in the supporters, the players, the staff. In 40 years of Richmond, we have had next to nothing historical worth celebrating. As i said in another post, we tend to be terrible at goodbyes
Matthew Knights final game was one of the saddest AFL games i can recall. The club was at an uneasy point and recall the tension in the crowd that night, Most of us felt Knighta had been treated pretty poorly by Danny. The night was cold & the crowd was very uneasy. It was not a nice night, even before a heartbreaking loss to Essendon, after a really spirited fightback. Me & my mate watched the comeback literally saying" OMG, we might actually have a happy ending for once!" - ultimately it literally lead to 100's of tears. I've still never seen anything like that night - grown men sobbing on a cold Friday night in July over a game that meant completely nothing in the context of our season - but meant everything about saying goodbye to an old friend and champion, and knowing that he & his career deserved better. And in all honesty, Matty Knights is not even close to what this dynasty era meant to us all, especially Dimma. The moment happens when it happens - not at a later arranged date. These are important moments in your clubs history, but also your lives.
When Richo retired, we didn't get a proper final send-off. When Jack Dyer passed away, the club put in a utterly disgusting effort. When Rance retired, we had no chance for goodbye, it was sudden and methodical. I feel like Dimma's was equally the same, but my problem is the moment was bigger than his goodbye - it was goodbye to the only real success we have had worth celebrating. And because of the nature of Dimma's decision, we got today instead.]
We honestly might never get a chance to say a goodbye to another dynasty Richmond team in our lifetime - I just felt like supporters were not considered into the equation at all with the timing and rollout of this decision.
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Also, i am not sure if he has elaborated on anything yet, but I also don't understand the comments about how he decided he was done " 2 weeks ago" - that would put him somewhere inbetween the Eagles & Cats game. Does anyone know more about why "2 weeks ago" it became apparent he was done?
As well as the obvious on-field & off-field chaos it creates after the club selling the farm in the off-season, it didn't allow the club, the former players and most importantly, the supporters to say goodbye - not just to Dimma, but the end of the Dynasty Era.
Today was the first day of the new era, the Dynasty era is 100% closed with Dimma gone. I am sure the club will find a way to honour it in a far more grandiose manner in the future & I can tell you now, it will mean only 1/10th of what today meant - as TODAY was the day it needed to happen.
30,000 on a sunday arvo at the MCG. No Dimma. No former players waving them off. No walking off the field to roaring supporters chanting "Dimma". I have listened to Dimma's farewell speech possibly 10 times now & the bit that always catches me is when he says "I want to leave this place with the best feelings possible"
Today was not even close to "The best feelings possible". Benny's face at the conference, did not give me great feels. The poultry crowd attending the match, did not make my bean twitch. The lack of fanfare and passion from a club called Richmond, in the supporters, the players, the staff. In 40 years of Richmond, we have had next to nothing historical worth celebrating. As i said in another post, we tend to be terrible at goodbyes
Matthew Knights final game was one of the saddest AFL games i can recall. The club was at an uneasy point and recall the tension in the crowd that night, Most of us felt Knighta had been treated pretty poorly by Danny. The night was cold & the crowd was very uneasy. It was not a nice night, even before a heartbreaking loss to Essendon, after a really spirited fightback. Me & my mate watched the comeback literally saying" OMG, we might actually have a happy ending for once!" - ultimately it literally lead to 100's of tears. I've still never seen anything like that night - grown men sobbing on a cold Friday night in July over a game that meant completely nothing in the context of our season - but meant everything about saying goodbye to an old friend and champion, and knowing that he & his career deserved better. And in all honesty, Matty Knights is not even close to what this dynasty era meant to us all, especially Dimma. The moment happens when it happens - not at a later arranged date. These are important moments in your clubs history, but also your lives.
When Richo retired, we didn't get a proper final send-off. When Jack Dyer passed away, the club put in a utterly disgusting effort. When Rance retired, we had no chance for goodbye, it was sudden and methodical. I feel like Dimma's was equally the same, but my problem is the moment was bigger than his goodbye - it was goodbye to the only real success we have had worth celebrating. And because of the nature of Dimma's decision, we got today instead.]
We honestly might never get a chance to say a goodbye to another dynasty Richmond team in our lifetime - I just felt like supporters were not considered into the equation at all with the timing and rollout of this decision.
----
Also, i am not sure if he has elaborated on anything yet, but I also don't understand the comments about how he decided he was done " 2 weeks ago" - that would put him somewhere inbetween the Eagles & Cats game. Does anyone know more about why "2 weeks ago" it became apparent he was done?
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Only guessing, but I suspect a few weeks ago the club's war counsel has decided to look to perform a moderate rebuild. This may mean retiring some players, dropping some and trading some, and Hardwick may just be thinking he cannot take part in that and still have the same bond with the remaining players. There would also be more to it. His richly deserved salary is clearly a bit of an impediment in the soft cap. He has also been up for a long time and probably also realised he is feeling a bit burnt out. I don't think it would be one single catalyst, just a combination of these type of things.
- Apr 27, 2014
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He decided over a month ago.
The burn-out factor is very real, but the part i just can't stomach is- why did he support the trading of all those assets for 2 "ready now" players, if his burnout was hitting "abort" levels? To me, that stands out like a sore thumb in all this - he has effectively quit on the job after 8 week with a team he felt so confidently about, he heavily pushed for the club to commit to trading 2 years worth of picks, plus TWO 7 year monster contracts for. It's really not the "Great feels" picture he spoke of.
Its kinda like someone asking me to invest $200k into their project because they are certain it will propel their investment and make us all squillions once it all comes together, then 12 weeks later, quits & walks out, with nothing looking close to a finished product to show for the project.
Lol, what - he decided he had enough 6 games after selling 2 drafts worth of picks? That's even more confusing
- Apr 27, 2014
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Wrong thread to be discussing all of this, but I mentioned it in the Cumberland thread somewhere. Probably deserves a separate thread. This thread should be about celebrating his achievements.
The thread is called "Dimma Quits", thats a pretty stark title! I think they might need to change it to "Thanks Dimma!!". Will happily discuss it in another thread thats more appropriate? I certainly dont want to be the guy to start that thread - it would get like Planet of the Apes in this joint
We gave up pick 14 22 34 and a pick with an expected value around 15. To get 2 desperately needed big bodied quality mids who were essentially 2 and 3 years into their respective primes. When you draft a player you are not really drafting him as a 15 year player. You are drafting him for what you think he can achieve in his prime from say aged 23 to 30. 7 or 8 years. Taranto has about 75% of his prime years left when we got him. Hopper had over 60% of his prime left when he joined the club.
Let's have a look at say the 2013 and 2014 drafts to see what the value of those picks was. I chose those years for no other reason than we have had time to figure out how good the players picked in those drafts are.
2013
pick 14 Cam McCarthy
pick 15 Zak Jones
pick 22 Darcy Gardiner
pick 34 Nick Robertson
2014
pick 14 Jake Lever
pick 15 Jarrod Garlett
pick 22 Daniel McKenzie
pick 34 Connor Blakely
Let's perhaps look at one earlier and one later one at random to increase the sample size.
2008
pick 14 Ace Cordy
pick 15 Mitchell Brown
pick 22 Jackson Trengove
pick 34 Liam Shiels
2016
pick 14 Harry Perryman
pick 15 Jordan Gallucci
pick 22 Jordan Ridley
pick 34 Declan Watson
Now I might have just picked out 4 drafts where those particular picks don't look great. So you can have a good with some more at random if you like.
But based on those that I selected without checking first, are there any 4 draftees there you are taking in preference to 75% of Taranto's prime + 63% of Hopper's prime? The answer is so obvious you don't even need to consider it. Lever is about the only one of the lot to get anywhere near the level of the two guns mids. Other than him, all these drafts have more or less produced 2 decent but not marquee players and 2 players that didn't make it.
Let' have one more go, 2015.
pick 14 Eric Hipwood
pick 15 Daniel Rioli
pick 22 Kieran Lovell
pick 34 Josh Shoenfeld
Same story, 2 decent but not marquee level, 2 that didn't make it.
2012
pick 14 Aidan Corr
pick 15 Taylor Garner
pick 22 Dean Towers
pick 34 Jason Ashby
one decent but not marquee player, 3 didn't make it.
So at the point of making the decision to trade for Taranto and Hopper, that's about the average of what Richmond were giving up in draft picks. Remembering we got a couple of later picks back as well, used on Steely Green and Kaleb Smith.
In terms of the expected value of the draft picks, Taranto and Hopper were no brainers for us. Contracts? Well, we invested in them for a long time, 7 years each, but not at silly money, just at their market value. The fact is we have lost every match we could possibly lose, and had a bad run with unavailability, and the pick with an expected value of 15 is likely to come in a lot higher now, probably just inside the top 10. But there is no way the club could be expected to know that.
The premise of your frustration with Hardwick is just not right.
1. He does not demand players and get them, this is a decision taken by the football department as a whole, no doubt with executive and board approval.
2. The decision to recruit Hopper and Taranto is really uncontroversial in reality. Us performing below expectations this seaosn does not even change that.
3. No matter what decisions are taken at any given point, they cannot be wholly predicated upon "Hardwick staying" or "Dusty playing" or "Lynch being fit" as none of these types of things can ever be guaranteed. Football clubs are dynamic places, ours just happens to have been extremely stable for a long period before now.
It certainly would not have been a matter of Hardwick saying you know what, I am almost burnt out here, so I will commit the club to 2 long contracts for new recruits that cost 2 x 1st and 2 x 2nd round picks, even though I know I am about to retire. You need to be extremely cynical to think anything remotely like that occurred.
Hoos
Hooplehead
- Mar 9, 2007
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Let me just preface this by saying I was not at the game, preferring to watch it from the comfort of my lounge room in north western Tasmania, so I can only judge from what I saw on the telecast, but that prearranged applause at the 17 minute mark of the first quarter came across like someone firing a cap gun when we were expecting fireworks. Talk about going out with a whimper. It sounded like polite applause at the local golf club's annual charity game. Surely they could have come up with something better than that?
Then again I guess it sums up our season. Hopefully there will be something later in the year but I agree with you on that it should have been done yesterday. Preferably with Dimma in attendance.
It’s also BS
I only knew about the 17 thing from bigfooty chat. The other 4 people I was with had nfi what the applause was for.
A proper send off will be much better.
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What happened in all those other years you left out MR?
rfctigerarmy
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Some people near me didn't understand why '17' was even chosen.
rfctigerarmy
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It wasn't horrible, but it really wasn't great either. Remember the club didn't organise it, social media support groups did.
It (a celebration of some sort) could have been so much better, I agree.
Yesterday did remind me of pre-Dimma I have to say, just a different era. Smallish crowd, not a great vibe, a bit of a mess at times. It definitely felt like our successful era has finished (now past tense).
I didn't look at any others as I thought 6 drafts where we can see the outcomes of those selections was a pretty decent sample. What years are you concerned about in particular?
Let's have a look at the missing ones then, 2009, 10, 11.
2009
14 Lewis Jetta
15 Christian Howard
22 Gerrick Weedon
34 Max Gawn
2010
14 Brodie Smith
15 Billy Smedts
22 Mitch Wallis
34 Patrick McCarthy
2011
14 Devon Smith
15 Brandon Ellis
22 Josh Bootsma
34 Shane Kersten
And let's throw in one more recent one so we have 10 consecutive years 2008-2017
2017
14 Matthew Ling
15 Zac Bailey
22 Lachie Fogarty
34 Patrick Naish
So in 10 years of drafts those 40 selections have produced:
2 marquee level players Lever(14) and Gawn(34)
14 decent to strong careers Bailey(15) Ellis(15) D Smith(14) B Smith(14) Jetta(14) Z Jones (15) Gardiner(22) Trengove(22) Shiels(34) Perryman(14) Ridley(22) Hipwood(14) Corr(14) D Rioli(15)
and 24 picks we would consider failed.
So based on that history, from the 4 picks we gave up, if you got a Daniel Rioli and a Brandon Ellis and no other players of real value, you would be doing a little better than expected.
You see when a lot of people post analyse drafts they say Luke Parker or Lachie Neale was available at x pick. But when the gun was put to professional recruiters heads and they had to actually choose players with the picks our list managers would have believed they were giving up, the above is what they came up with.
So in easy to understand terms for us Tiger supporters, they are giving up 100% of Dan Rioli and Brandon Ellis's prime years to get around 70% of Hopper and Taranto's prime years.
Would you make that trade?
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Yeah Sunday killed the final chance of a fairytale comeback with the old firm for me too.
We are now officially a mediocre team in a rebuild/refresh.
Kinda takes the pressure off lol. I haven't felt this way since 2012 when the world ended as we knew it...
Groupie_
time to return the traditional Richmond yellow
He didn't sell anything imo.
We have list managers and football managers that do that.
Dimma would have been asked and no doubt gave his 2c, but it's 2023, coaches don't do that stuff anymore.
Gee. I wonder who the Suns are going to get as their new coach now they have sacked Stuart "Mountain" Dew?
Reckon i might have been pre-tay on the money with this one. again.
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He was pushing his arse for it. Gimme a break. Yeah you have Assistance Managers & Managers & recruiting teams that are "in on the process" But you also have CEO's who they all answer to. Coaches that demand support. They are all working for the upper management and their vision.
As head coach, Dimma's say is as loud as anyones in those decisions. It's a team decision in the same way all companies make "Team decisions"m based on the whims of the board CEO, GM etc
It will go down in history that we made that trade, Dimma quit after 6 weeks of bad results and within a few months took the job at the Suns. It's how its always was going to roll. People acted like suggesting it would was heresey. But when it is fact, the argument is completely redundant.
Dimma will be Suns coach in 2024.
Tell you one thing that would leave me enraged , if he dragged dusty out of punt rd < 300 games , I’d fully support withdrawing his life membership if that came to pass
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