Have Geelong become too powerful?

[PhatBoy]

So non geelong posters and geelong posters?

No, I’ve read plenty of opinions from non-Cats fans who can pretty much go ‘Geelong made a preliminary final 21 seasons ago and have missed the finals 3 times since and have turned over the bulk of their side basically 3 times to some extent and have the best recruitment team in the league and have defied every prediction previously so for starters, it would be foolish to just automatically assume that they’re f**ked.’ Which it would, to any sane person.
I’ve also read plenty that have made the perfectly reasonable statement that Geelong gets a lot of mileage out of its older stars, which we do, but that we have had a very noticeable increase in output from its younger players in the last season and a half as well and that while we are bringing those younger players through, they’ve managed to avoid being at the bottom of the ladder which is a decent sign if they can get their next season or two of recruiting and drafting right. If they don’t, that’s what would see them drop off.’

 

[Jake98]

I just got here lmao.

Yes, and? You're just another Geelong fan already getting personal and attempting to belittle me instead of addressing any points. This just tells me you're not very confident about your club's prospects.

 

[Delisted]

No, I’ve read plenty of opinions from non-Cats fans who can pretty much go ‘Geelong made a preliminary final 21 seasons ago and have missed the finals 3 times since and have turned over the bulk of their side basically 3 times to some extent and have the best recruitment team in the league and have defied every prediction previously so for starters, it would be foolish to just automatically assume that they’re f**ked.’ Which it would, to any sane person.
I’ve also read plenty that have made the perfectly reasonable statement that Geelong gets a lot of mileage out of its older stars, which we do, but that we have had a very noticeable increase in output from its younger players in the last season and a half as well and that while we are bringing those younger players through, they’ve managed to avoid being at the bottom of the ladder which is a decent sign if they can get their next season or two of recruiting and drafting right. If they don’t, that’s what would see them drop off.’

I see. Just the positive Geelong posts.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes, and? You're just another Geelong fan already getting personal and attempting to belittle me instead of addressing any points. This just tells me you're not very confident about your club's prospects.

Mate, you’ve just told the forum that you’re going to take personal pleasure in the supposed disappointment of someone else when a footy team fails

Don’t play that card.

 

[STPer18]

Remind us of the quality young players in the back-to-back straight-setting disappointing Hawks who were getting a game in the business end of the season.

Jakey you there? It's off to bed for me I'll get back to you in the morning. Just please don't wave the white flag so quickly like our other mate Delisted did the other day. And no poo pics this time, promise?

 

[Jake98]

Remind us of the quality young players in the back-to-back straight-setting disappointing Hawks who were getting a game in the business end of the season.

Worpel, Impey, O'Meara, Sicily, Morrison, Howe, Cousins, Burton.

Some good players, some duds. Only Sicily turned out to be an A-Grader.

Meanwhile Hawthorn's current winning form is heavily driven by quality drafting between 2019-2023. It's through exactly this that Hawthorn assembled a far superior group of young players to what Geelong have right now.

 

[PhatBoy]

I see. Just the positive Geelong posts.

No. The reasonable ones. That’s the thing with agreeing with something. You tend to agree with things that are reasonable and based on reason. The examples I gave are.

Again, the burden of proof is on the people trying to show that we can’t keep succeeding to some extent. So people saying ‘this team 7 seasons ago did such and such so it’s gonna happen to you’ tend to not be agreed with. What’s the reasoning? All it is, is one competition. It ignores a dozen factors.
Then you’ve got ‘your youth sucks.’ Well no, it doesn’t. It’s not at North Melbourne levels but it’s decent, and it’s also got finals experience, in some cases some flag experience, and will have more finals experience by next season. It’s not a reasoned argument because it ignores a lot. ‘Your youth is ok’ without being elite would be a reasoned argument.

As I said, I will listen to reasonable, measured commentary and discuss it as such. Reading the oft-attempted ‘I basically am just hoping the Cats go away’ stuff, it’s easier just to dismiss.

 

[STPer18]

Worpel, Impey, O'Meara, Sicily, Morrison, Howe, Cousins, Burton.

Some good players, some duds. Only Sicily turned out to be an A-Grader.

Meanwhile Hawthorn's current winning form is heavily driven by quality drafting between 2019-2023. It's through exactly this that Hawthorn assembled a far superior group of young players to what Geelong have right now.

Ooooof, yeah prospects like that are how you go close to a decade without even a solitary finals victory. Thankfully we didn't neglect the draft like Crazy Clarko and the back-to-back straight setting Hawks did, nor the current great Richmond catastrophe of '24.

 

[Delisted]

Jakey you there? It's off to bed for me I'll get back to you in the morning. Just please don't wave the white flag so quickly like our other mate Delisted did the other day. And no poo pics this time, promise?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Ooooof, yeah prospects like that are how you go close to a decade without even a solitary finals victory. Thankfully we didn't neglect the draft like Crazy Clarko and the back-to-back straight setting Hawks did, nor the current great Richmond catastrophe of '24.

Hawks and Tigers got dynasties though. I think it’s worth it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Worpel, Impey, O'Meara, Sicily, Morrison, Howe, Cousins, Burton.

Some good players, some duds. Only Sicily turned out to be an A-Grader.

Meanwhile Hawthorn's current winning form is heavily driven by quality drafting between 2019-2023. It's through exactly this that Hawthorn assembled a far superior group of young players to what Geelong have right now.

So in other words if we DO, in fact, shit the bed the way you are hoping we will in a worst case scenario, we should be most of the way through a rebuild in five years and playing the most exciting football in the competition and having the rest of the competition on notice going into the finals.

 

[Delisted]

No. The reasonable ones. That’s the thing with agreeing with something. You tend to agree with things that are reasonable and based on reason. The examples I gave are.

Again, the burden of proof is on the people trying to show that we can’t keep succeeding to some extent. So people saying ‘this team 7 seasons ago did such and such so it’s gonna happen to you’ tend to not be agreed with. What’s the reasoning? All it is, is one competition. It ignores a dozen factors.
Then you’ve got ‘your youth sucks.’ Well no, it doesn’t. It’s not at North Melbourne levels but it’s decent, and it’s also got finals experience, in some cases some flag experience, and will have more finals experience by next season. It’s not a reasoned argument because it ignores a lot. ‘Your youth is ok’ without being elite would be a reasoned argument.

As I said, I will listen to reasonable, measured commentary and discuss it as such. Reading the oft-attempted ‘I basically am just hoping the Cats go away’ stuff, it’s easier just to dismiss.

Fair enough.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

We’re so powerful we only need to play a half of footy to lock in a top 4 spot.

 

[FootyLad0]

If you're going to try and sell opposition supporters the silly notion that Geelong have quality youth, best you stick to players who are actually young.

Again, Geelong's youth is in the same tier as Collingwood and Richmond.

Footy players don’t retire at 30 anymore mate, 26 is not old in new footy standards
The age of players playing out careers has extrended with modern medicine.

You need to get with the times.
It’s 2024 not 2004

 

[Taper]

Those "07-11 flag players" kept your club going all the way up to 2016. Then you got a virtual free agent in Dangerfield, and another in Jeremy Cameron who was basically traded in for Tim Kelly. Couple that with the last easy-mode father-son in Tom Hawkins along with a few more topups, and your club was able to sustain itself for a decent bit longer than other clubs.

Won't be nearly as easy as you seem to think it is from this point onwards. Bailey Smith is no Dangerfield, and there are no Jeremy Camerons available for a long time. No free high-end father/sons on the horizon, which you wouldn't be able to get for a mere third rounder again anyway.

Sure, tonight less than half the best 22 were 30+, but that just highlighted how far off your club's youth is. Geelong's youth is in the same tier as Collingwood and Richmond, which is to be expected following so many top-ups.

Dangerfield a free agent?
We traded Dean Gore and a couple of picks for him.

Also,
Aaron Cadman and Harley Reid will be pulling on the hoops in the not too distant future.
Watch this space.

 

[FootyLad0]

Dangerfield a free agent?
We traded Dean Gore and a couple of picks for him.

Also,
Aaron Cadman and Harley Reid will be pulling on the hoops in the not too distant future.
Watch this space.

Imagine the melts on BigFooty OMG lol

 

[Jake98]

Footy players don’t retire at 30 anymore mate, 26 is not old in new footy standards
The age of players playing out careers has extrended with modern medicine.

You need to get with the times.
It’s 2024 not 2004

It's not young either. Again, the point of contention was your club's youth.

Gunston, Shiels and Breust weren't part of Hawthorn's youth during their "rebuild" either. They were mid-aged players.

Most of Geelong's wins in the past 5 years have been heavily driven by the 30+ year olds, and nowhere is this more apparent than this year's correlation of form with Dangerfield's absence. Geelong is heavily dependent on a 34 year old to carry the midfield.

 

[Jake98]

Dangerfield a free agent?
We traded Dean Gore and a couple of picks for him.

Also,
Aaron Cadman and Harley Reid will be pulling on the hoops in the not too distant future.
Watch this space.

That's why I prefaced it with virtual free agent. Was that too difficult for you to understand? The point is you got him for significantly less than what he was worth because Adelaide are notoriously poor traders.

As for Cadman and Reid, you are free to delude yourself at your leisure.

 

[MisterMarcus]

We’re so powerful we only need to play a half of footy to lock in a top 4 spot.

Richmond and "Sydney" fans HATE this one weird trick!!

 

[Proper Gander]

Somehow I always knew this thread wasn’t going to end well

 

[MisterMarcus]

It's not young either. Again, the point of contention was your club's youth.

Gunston, Shiels and Breust weren't part of Hawthorn's youth during their "rebuild" either. They were mid-aged players.

Most of Geelong's wins in the past 5 years have been heavily driven by the 30+ year olds, and nowhere is this more apparent than this year's correlation of form with Dangerfield's absence. Geelong is heavily dependent on a 34 year old to carry the midfield.

If you're going to troll, at least make an effort.

Geelong's only "old blokes" who have done well in 2024 are Stewart, Cameron, Dangerfield, and maybe Duncan.

All of our other 30+ players (Hawkins, Cuthrie, Stanley, Tuohy, Rohan, Bews, Blicavs) have either been well down on form or missed large chunks of the season through injury, or completely out of the best 23. None of them have 'carried' anything in 2024.

Ask any Cats fan who our Top 10 most consistent performers in 2024 are and you'd probably get something like Holmes, Zuthrie, Miers, Stewart, Cameron, Dempsey, Stengle, Dangerfield, Bowes and Bruhn. Possibly in that order.

Only 3 "old blokes", 4 mid-age players, and 3 very young guys. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

 

[Delisted]

And all this in a "Rebuild" year. Amazing.

 

[Jake98]

If you're going to troll, at least make an effort.

Geelong's only "old blokes" who have done well in 2024 are Stewart, Cameron, Dangerfield, and maybe Duncan.

All of our other 30+ players (Hawkins, Cuthrie, Stanley, Tuohy, Rohan, Bews, Blicavs) have either been well down on form or missed large chunks of the season through injury, or completely out of the best 23. None of them have 'carried' anything in 2024.

Ask any Cats fan who our Top 10 most consistent performers in 2024 are and you'd probably get something like Holmes, Zuthrie, Miers, Stewart, Cameron, Dempsey, Stengle, Dangerfield, Bowes and Bruhn. Possibly in that order.

Only 3 "old blokes", 4 mid-age players, and 3 very young guys. Seems like a pretty good balance to me.

Refer to:

The vast majority of Geelong's wins this year have been driven by one or more of Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart.
Hawkins had a big game against Adelaide early in the year. Stanley had a big game against the Bulldogs in Adelaide, then beat Luke Jackson last week, which was probably the difference between winning and losing against Fremantle.
Even if you want to say players like Blicavs or Tuohy aren't important players anymore, they have still provided value in a lot of Geelong's wins, particularly against less experienced/mentally weak sides. Take out the experienced players and you almost certainly lose most of your close games this year (of which there have been quite a few)


Just because you have young players does not mean you have quality young players.
For two years now Geelong fans have been carrying on about Oliver Henry being some kind of amazing find and guaranteed superstar. Seems like the tune has changed quite a bit. I guess it's not so easy for a soft medium-sized forward to thrive when Hawkins isn't playing.

This is Hawthorn 2018 all over again. Overhyping your young players, and not understanding just how far off your youth is from the competition for the next 5 years. Now is literally the worst time for Geelong to trade in a player like Bailey Smith, but Scotty can't help himself with the topups.

Sure, Stengle and Miers have been pretty good, but these aren't the types of players who can drive a team to sustained success. They are role-players.

There is a reason you lost five out of six games as soon as Dangerfield got injured. Your club is heavily dependent on a 34 year old to carry the midfield, and it won't hold up in finals.

 

[MisterMarcus]

So even if our old players aren't playing well, they contributed to all our wins even if they're just role players.

But when our young players play well, they're just role players and it doesn't count because reasons.

Gotcha.

 

[Jake98]

So even if our old players aren't playing well, they contributed to all our wins even if they're just role players.

But when our young players play well, they're just role players and it doesn't count because reasons.

Gotcha.

Stengle is a small forward. He isn't the one driving the ball forward from the midfield or defence. His role is to kick goals or set them up when the ball goes down there. If Geelong aren't winning contested ball through the middle, his influence is largely diminished. Same goes for Miers who is a distributor, not a ball-winner.

Geelong have three critical dependencies for any prospective success: Cameron, Dangerfield and Stewart. All of them are 30+. If even one of them is injured or underperforming, Geelong almost always lose. It doesn't take a genius to understand how this state of affairs doesn't bode well for a club at all.

Meanwhile with a team like Sydney, we can lose one of our best players in Warner and still produce quality football. We are not critically dependent on a small group of old players.