Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[Blackhawk42]

Assist in not getting bent over next time. I negotiate for a living. You know when someone is a folder. McKenzie has that reputation. Sam Power for example (who I actually went to uni with) is someone other clubs know will stick to his guns and he negotiates fair value. You implied it yourself when mocking Wright's offer of 41. He obviously knew that McKenzie would fold.

It is what it is and I am all in on rebuilding, but i'm not going to pretend a dud deal is a good deal.

That's ignoring Cooper Stephens as part of the deal.

If he turns into a 150 game player for us and we bundle pick 41 and 50 into a higher selection that also turns into a player, can you honestly say it's a 'dud' and that pick 25 or 27 outright would have been better?

The argument to be made is how the journo reports during the day that 'Stephens will end up at Hawthorn for not much' turned into 'Stephens and some later picks for Tom Mitchell'.

In an ideal world those trades are separate and our yield is greater, but the outcome may still be identical depending on what we do with these acquired selections.

 

[A Diakos]

Why do Essendon need help matching?

They have the points (more than us) and are not handing a rival pick 22 for a bunch of late picks in a weak draft.

Pick 22 will cost one of our future seconds if we want it.

They dont need help matching

It’s simple picks 48 50 52 and 65 are worth my points then pick 22

It s better for them to the deal if a bid for Davey comes in before 22

Why would they not do the deal when it strengthens their position ?

Who can offer them a better deal ?

Who’s willing to dish out their second round pick in a strong draft next year ?

We are strongly positioned to the deal for 22 more so than any other club if a bid for Davey comes before 22

Alternatively we can do other deals like get lions pick 34 and give them 50 52 65 which again is in lions favour

 

[bigconornash]

KANE SAYS: It is impossible to understand what the Hawks set out to achieve here. They bring in a 27-year-old free agent on massive money, but lose their two most accomplished midfielders and their best forward. Hard to see how they win more than six games and the damage of the repeated beatings on the young group will be scarring. Imagine how James Sicily, who is 27 and just signed a five-year contract, is feeling this morning knowing he has not a chance to win a premiership at Hawthorn. What a fall for such a great club.

IN:
Lloyd Meek
Cooper Stephens
Karl Amon
Pick 41, 48, 50
Future 2nd (FRE), Future 4th (BRI)

OUT:
Jaeger O’Meara
Tom Mitchell
Jack Gunston


Oh how much I love Kane! No chance of a flag in the next 6 years!

Hawks future is bright as young star arrives; coach would be ‘fuming’ as Port exposed: 3-2-1

Young Hawks shock AFL world with HUGE upset win as young star arrives: 3-2-1

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Braidz]

I don’t see the what all the doom and gloom is about.
All year we’ve wanted these two out (apart from a couple of posters) we get a young mid who has struggled to get a game and a decent ruck stuck behind 2 good rucks.
Gunston is a huge loss but we can’t do anything about that.
I’m pretty positive on next year. There will be late fade outs in games.
I think you are all forgetting how good a coach Sam is

 

[Flukey!]

If Geelong were after Bowes for months, there's no way gc throw pick 7 in (even for the cap dump). The pursuit talk is to deflect the blatnt rort

Pick 7 changed the dynamic of the offer. Not the pursuit of the player.

 

[hardway]

I’m keen to see the delisting from both Queensland teams

 

[Coach Killer]

Some positivity...

Our 2019 draft is looking very promising.


Jeka
Day
Stephens
Maginness
Morris

Just Tidied it up for you a tad.

Carry on.

 

[streetspirit]

I’m keen to see the delisting from both Queensland teams

Brisbane have already delisted Ely Smith who we've monitored in the past. While perhaps not DFA, maybe one to put into Box Hill's programme with an eye for the pre-season Supplementary pick?

 

[Iceman!]

Ok but im not prepared to see making ourselves worse in the draft period so we can win the spoon as a good thing, im not a ******* Carlton supporter

Okay and how do you propose we generate enough talent to contend for flags over the coming years? Lose the entitlement of we at the Hawks are just better than these other clubs and tell me the strategy you propose would lead us on that path.

We did what we had to.

 

[Jazzfan]

They dont need help matching

It’s simple picks 48 50 52 and 65 are worth my points then pick 22

It s better for them to the deal if a bid for Davey comes in before 22

Why would they not do the deal when it strengthens their position ?

Who can offer them a better deal ?

Who’s willing to dish out their second round pick in a strong draft next year ?

We are strongly positioned to the deal for 22 more so than any other club if a bid for Davey comes before 22

Alternatively we can do other deals like get lions pick 34 and give them 50 52 65 which again is in lions favour

Absolutely Essendon will try and deal 22.

But what I'm saying is, why would they do a deal like that for our late picks (they have plenty of these too).

This draft is shallow remember. Sides are supposedly likely to be passing in the 40s.

So if Essendon trade us 22 for all our late picks, when are they next entering the draft after matching Davey?

They're not going to hand a rival pick 22 with little benefit.

Entering the draft again in the 40s won't be enough of a carrot to gift a side pick 22. Especially a side around their mark with cap space to try and attract players next year.

It's not just simply looking at a points value mate. You have to understand what's in it for Essendon in a tangible way (i.e where they would re-enter the draft and is it worth giving us a leg up in this example).

Every chance if our late picks are the best offer Essendon has, they'll just use 22 with their later picks to match Davey and be done with the draft (having a top 5 and a top 20 talent in the door).

Points very much matter to Lions however given they need to match two bids.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Gresham would be nice. RFA next year.

He looks good occasionally but tends to run for the hills when it gets a bit tough.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Whenever I look at Mark McKenzie now, this is who I see.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Eye on the prize, people. #toosoon

I advocate tanking 2023.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Whenever I look at Mark McKenzie now, this is who I see.

View attachment 1535204

Wonder if he asked Wrighty to smell the glove.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

If Geelong were after Bowes for months, there's no way gc throw pick 7 in (even for the cap dump). The pursuit talk is to deflect the blatnt rort

And the rules at the time precluded any addition of a draft pick on the trade to compensate for Bowes' high salary in a contract distorted by GC mismanagement.

The rules only changed because Geelong asked, and Geelong gets what Geelong wants.

It's corruption — blatant double-dealing at best — and it comes as no surprise when Geelong is involved and benefitted most. The AFL will 'crack down' next year.

Anyone who respects the AFL or believes there's nothing untoward happening behind the scenes is naive and/or wilfully stupid.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m not even sure who the Footy media person was who said it, but it’s pretty funny that someone is now making out like us trading out Tom and JOM to probable finals teams was such a horrible thing for us to do them. The horror!

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

"but failing to get even a top-40 selection for two of their biggest stars hurts their rebuild as they need more top-end talent. You can’t rely on getting incredible late picks like Mitch Lewis forever."

"The Hawks have gotten something back for their veterans, although the cull has probably come a couple of years too late. And it means they’re a clear wooden spoon contender in 2023."

Do they actually stop and think about what theyre saying?

What is in dispute here? Failing to mention a 2023 F2?

We are a wooden spoon contender in 2023. I think bottom 4, but only because North and West Coast will continue to be bad at a guess.

 

[Sirlemsip]

What is in dispute here? Failing to mention a 2023 F2?

We are a wooden spoon contender in 2023. I think bottom 4, but only because North and West Coast will continue to be bad at a guess.

The other team that will have a bad year is the Crows. Their list is still absolute balls.
Probably the next worst midfield after us.

 

[Billyc]

The other team that will have a bad year is the Crows. Their list is still absolute balls.
Probably the next worst midfield after us.

Giants too. Lousy this year and lost Taranto and Hopper. It's not getting the run from the media, but they weakened their list in the short term more than we did (albeit their list itself is stronger and they managed to get a great draft hand). I'm tipping North, Hawks, Eagles, Giants for bottom 4.

 

[yeahmate]

Okay and how do you propose we generate enough talent to contend for flags over the coming years? Lose the entitlement of we at the Hawks are just better than these other clubs and tell me the strategy you propose would lead us on that path.

We did what we had to.

Like we did in our eras of success and like every other successful team. Develop our young emerging talented players alongside our senior group of players so that they learn how to train and prepare themselves to the requisite professional standard for senior AFL football and also get some protection and chop out to develop consistency at senior level. Encourage one club players who love and play for the club and who want to play their careers out with Hawthorn. Retire off our senior players with dignity when its time and create an overall winning culture where the club backs its players in from debut to retirement. Not become a club that starts looking to ship off everyone as soon as they hit 28 when they still have years of senior football left in them just for the sake of some mediocre draft picks and younger fringe players when its going to leave a very young and inexperienced core of midfielders that looks very likely to s will be monstered by good teams next year which based on other teams whove gone down this path ends up with young players either burning out early and not reaching their full potential or when they become more valuable commodities seeking trades to other clubs so they can win some games.

 

[Sirlemsip]

Giants too. Lousy this year and lost Taranto and Hopper. It's not getting the run from the media, but they weakened their list in the short term more than we did (albeit their list itself is stronger and they managed to get a great draft hand). I'm tipping North, Hawks, Eagles, Giants for bottom 4.

Sure, Giants lose Taranto and Hopper.

Their midfield is STILL Green, Kelly, Ward, Whitfield, Cogs with Toby Greene rotating and Callaghan and Ash coming through as young players.

That is miles ahead of us.

They will actually have a competent coach next year as well. I'd be very surprised if they are bottom 4 again - they should be pushing for the lower end of the top 8.

 

[butlers hawks]

I’m not even sure who the Footy media person was who said it, but it’s pretty funny that someone is now making out like us trading out Tom and JOM to probable finals teams was such a horrible thing for us to do them. The horror!

was Barrett on the AFL Daily podcast I believe

 

[TylerDurden]

The media hate us more than any club.
For years they've belted on that we need to move on from these players. Then when we do, they say we're a rabble.

If you're not Hawthorn, get fkd.

 

[Sirlemsip]

Like we did in our eras of success and like every other successful team. Develop our young emerging talented players alongside our senior group of players so that they learn how to train and prepare themselves to the requisite professional standard for senior AFL football and also get some protection and chop out to develop consistency at senior level. Encourage one club players who love and play for the club and who want to play their careers out with Hawthorn. Retire off our senior players with dignity when its time and create an overall winning culture where the club backs its players in from debut to retirement. Not become a club that starts looking to ship off everyone as soon as they hit 28 when they still have years of senior football left in them just for the sake of some mediocre draft picks and younger fringe players when its going to leave a very young and inexperienced core of midfielders that looks very likely to s will be monstered by good teams next year which based on other teams whove gone down this path ends up with young players either burning out early and not reaching their full potential or when they become more valuable commodities seeking trades to other clubs so they can win some games.

There is a big difference between shipping off 28+ year old players when the team is 1-2 years away from contending vs being 3-5 years away from contending.

As much as I would hope we can remain competitive in most games, Hawks will be bottom 4 next year and probably for 2024 as well.

We can't force players to stay if they want to leave to a) play in a finals side and b) have the safety net of a longer deal.
Both Titch and JOM will play finals next year.
If they stayed with us its likely we would either lose them at the end of next year, or move to 1 year rolling deals.
They did what was best for them. We got the best deals that we could.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

The media hate us more than any club.
For years they've belted on that we need to move on from these players. Then when we do, they say we're a rabble.

If you're not Hawthorn, get fkd.

It's mostly Kane, Barrett, Lloyd

those three clowns will do everything in their power to diminish us

To be fair to Kane, he does it to every club and it's just part of his schtick. Don't care about him. The other two are just morons so again, don't really care