Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[TassieGrown]

MM waking up this morning

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Jager never said no to the Giants but it’s my understanding that like most players he wasn’t super keen on going to play in front of no one in the middle of nowhere, particularly when Home was calling.

Can't blame him at all TBH.

He will be a quality foil for Brayshaw, Serong and Brodie. Those three plus JOM and a fit Fyfe equal one of the best midfield units in the league.

 

[A Diakos]

The negativity on this thread is similar to that expressed on match day threads throughout the season. I have often wondered if Hawthorn has more than it’s fair share of pessimists or whether it is representative of society in Australia.
Having seen my club win 13 premierships in my lifetime I take a positive long term view, as we have had plenty of mediocre seasons in that time also.
Win lose or draw I look forward to watching our young guys play over the next few seasons and view this trade period as a small step forward in our quest for premiership 14.

I was very negative missing bowes deal

Yesterday however was very good trading

 

[Siri]

The general consensus in the media, at work & in the broader community is that we got reamed (again). You can't sugar coat it. I'm yet to speak to anyone this morning who hasn't hung shit on me, so that's a fair indicator. Perhaps my silence on the topic is another indicator too. Sam Mitchell wanted this, but our inability to trade for top end talent (not free agents) is a concern & our draft haul is underwhelming for where we're at. Once again I'm looking for something to hang my HFC hat on. Over to you Sammy.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeah sorry i dont barrack for my football team to lose

Nor do I but there’s a distinct possibility that we could win 5 or 6 games next year and still win the spoon.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

No other buyers is irrelevant. Once you nominate a club, that's where they're going, it's not a bidding war. It's up to the clubs to negotiate.

No other buyers is absolutely relevant. We can't say 'well stuff your offer Collingwood, we will see what Richmond have to offer'. I am not sure what people are failing to grasp here - Mitchell was an undesirable asset and wasn't going to yield high value. We got 2 thirds and a former first round prospect out of it. Would I like to have done better - absolutely. Am I content with what we got - yes. Not every deal has to be about winning or losing the deal or the trade grades etc. What matters is did we get value in for the Hawthorn Football Club. Yes - not as much as we like but we got it. We got more than we would if we held Mitchell for another year. We move on.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Walk away from the deal, I suspect we would have picked up Stephens with a later pick anyway. There is also always the chance that the pies fall short without him and come to the table again.

Again. Next year Tom then gets traded for basically nothing as an older uncontracted player. Why is this a good thing?

 

[PenAndPaper]

The general consensus in the media, at work & in the broader community is that we got reamed (again). You can't sugar coat it. I'm yet to speak to anyone this morning who hasn't hung s**t on me, so that's a fair indicator. Perhaps my silence on the topic is another indicator too. Sam Mitchell wanted this, but our inability to trade for top end talent (not free agents) is a concern & our draft haul is underwhelming for where we're at. Once again I'm looking for something to hang my HFC hat on. Over to you Sammy.

To get top end talent you have to trade top end talent/picks, we aren't going to trade either of those. Trading a 29yo Mitchell got uis a former 1st round draft pick and Trading O'Meara got us a ruck which we desperately need and a future 2nd in a deep draft.

These deals are good for us. We weren't going to get first rounders for either of them and essentially we got 2nd rounders minimum for both of them.

 

[Jazzfan]

No other buys is absolutely relevant. We can't say 'well stuff your offer Collingwood, we will see what Richmond have to offer'. I am not sure what people are failing to grasp here - Mitchell was an undesirable asset and wasn't going to yield high value. We got 2 thirds and a former first round prospect out of it. Would I like to have done better - absolutely. Am I content with what we got - yes. Not every deal has to be about winning or losing the deal or the trade grades etc. What matters is did we get value in for the Hawthorn Football Club. Yes - not as much as we like but we got it. We got more than we would if we held Mitchell for another year. We move on.

No mate.

The moment a player nominates a destination, other 'suitors' becomes absolutely irrelevant.

You know this mate.

We would have flipped Jaegar to GWS for a better return. Hell, Suns probably would have preferred to deal with us on Bowes.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The general consensus in the media, at work & in the broader community is that we got reamed (again). You can't sugar coat it. I'm yet to speak to anyone this morning who hasn't hung s**t on me, so that's a fair indicator. Perhaps my silence on the topic is another indicator too. Sam Mitchell wanted this, but our inability to trade for top end talent (not free agents) is a concern & our draft haul is underwhelming for where we're at. Once again I'm looking for something to hang my HFC hat on. Over to you Sammy.

People hung all levels of effluent on Ned Guy and Collingwood back in 2020. They now have a manageable cap, a list that almost made a grand final and good young talent under contract. They lost a guy that was subsequently delisted, a B grade midfielder whose best days are behind him and Stephenson who was a flash in the pan. Sometimes you have to take the hard medicine.

 

[yeahmate]

Nor do I but there’s a distinct possibility that we could win 5 or 6 games next year and still win the spoon.

Ok but im not prepared to see making ourselves worse in the draft period so we can win the spoon as a good thing, im not a ****ing Carlton supporter

 

[Ned Ryerson]

No mate.

The moment a player nominates a destination, other 'suitors' becomes absolutely irrelevant.

You know this mate.

That's true - when Essendon were sabre rattling to take JOM in the PSD we absolutely didn't go crazy Vossy and trade overs to get the deal done. Other suitors absolutely don't matter at all.

And I don't recall Tom ever nominating Collingwood - they were just the only other club that ever came to the table.

 

[Billyc]

See - people keep using these terms. Call their bluff. Hold out. Be tough. Don't fold. They sound good but don't mean anything. Collingwood say - take this deal as we are not paying more than this. Our response is to keep Tom, have him stymie our midfield development for another year and then walk as an uncontracted player next year for even less trade currency. How is this a good option? Explain to me how selling him for less next year makes McKenzie a better operator?

That logic only works if what we got was actually decent. For example, if a club overlooks a first rounder that is offered because they want two first rounders, the opportunity cost is the first rounder. Here, the opportunity cost of holding our ground was picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft - ie. junk.

We would have negotiated a separate deal for Stephens. If by not bending over we didn't get picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft and end up with a worse deal next year, who cares? We get dudded either way but by taking the rubbish deal, McKenzie reinforces a reputation as a pushover. You know those reputations exist, as you were ridiculing Wright about it a few days ago when suggesting only Wright himself would accept such a dud offer. In any event, I reckon Collingwood would have yielded and offered up fair value, but instead McKenzie did and took a bad deal

 

[cryptor]

Eye on the prize, people. #toosoon

Hope he's not a JHF FIGJAM type. If his mindset/personality is aligned with the types Sam Mitchell is targeting then I'd gladly take the spoon next year to get him.

 

[butlers hawks]

so i missed last nights vinegar strokes in here due to finishing work and driving home listening to the deadline pass.

15 hours on how are we all feeling? Still plenty to play out. My mate that works at the AFL said there was a heap of talk Hawks were trying to move up the board even after the deadline last night.

Based on MM words it would appear thats still the main goal now

 

[Jazzfan]

That's true - when Essendon were sabre rattling to take JOM in the PSD we absolutely didn't go crazy Vossy and trade overs to get the deal done. Other suitors absolutely don't matter at all.

And I don't recall Tom ever nominating Collingwood - they were just the only other club that ever came to the table.

Well using your logic, we really stuffed up not sending Jaegar to GWS for their first then.

Or at least getting North's second, given that would be comparable to the Giants offer.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Some positivity...

Our 2019 draft is looking very promising.

Day
Stephens
Maginness
Morris
Jeka

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That logic only works if what we got was actually decent. For example, if a club overlooks a first rounder that is offered because they want two first rounders, the opportunity cost is the first rounder. Here, the opportunity cost of holding our ground was picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft - ie. junk.

We would have negotiated a separate deal for Stephens. If by not bending over we didn't get picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft and end up with a worse deal next year, who cares? We get dudded either way but by taking the rubbish deal, McKenzie reinforces a reputation as a pushover. You know those reputations exist, as you were ridiculing Wright about it a few days ago when suggesting only Wright himself would accept such a dud offer. In any event, I reckon Collingwood would have yielded and offered up fair value, but instead McKenzie did and took a bad deal

So you're saying McKenzie gains more for the club by probably getting a fourth round pick next year for Mitchell as a turning-31 year old midfielder with no contract than getting Stephens and two 3rd round picks? Sorry - I just don't see it. Maybe this is because I am not a gun negotiator.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Well using your logic, we really stuffed up not sending Jaegar to GWS for their first then.

Or at least getting North's second, given that would be comparable to the Giants offer.

Okay - tell me who the other club was offering a better deal for Tom Mitchell? And where is the evidence GWS were willing to offer a first round pick - outside of Bigfooty scuttlebutt.

 

[Billyc]

So you're saying McKenzie gains more for the club by probably getting a fourth round pick next year for Mitchell as a turning-31 year old midfielder with no contract is a better outcome than getting Stephens and two 3rd round picks? Sorry - I just don't see it. Maybe this is because I am not a gun negotiator.

Firstly you're guessing on what would happen next year, but otherwise yes. Soft deals breed an expectation of further soft deals (which again you were ridiculing Wright about a couple days ago and you were suggesting people were daft for thinking we'd flick Mitchell for peanuts). Plus we'd pay the player to play for us next year, instead of an opponent.

 

[Jazzfan]

Okay - tell me who the other club was offering a better deal for Tom Mitchell? And where is the evidence GWS were willing to offer a first round pick - outside of Bigfooty scuttlebutt.

Billyc has explained it above better than I ever could.

He's nailed it mate.

#15,936

 

[Coach Killer]

Probably has something to do with Climate Change.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Firstly you're guessing on what would happen next year, but otherwise yes. Soft deals breed an expectation of further soft deals (which again you were ridiculing Wright about a couple days ago and you were suggesting people were daft for thinking we'd flick Mitchell for peanuts). Plus we'd pay the player to play for us next year, instead of an opponent.

It's not a guess - 31 year old midfielders with regressing form who are out of contract don't increase in value, and you know that.

And yes I made a joke about Wrighty based on his time with us - it was a joke for some laughs. Pretty sure if you will see my posts about Mitchell's worth all year that I didn't regard him as all that valuable because I was able to see through the Brownlow and PCMs and see his flaws and what that meant for a team in our position.

 

[Topiary]

Never in my wildest dream did I think I’d rather Dodo over Mackenzie

Not going to go that far.
We need some one who can do a deal, get us in front. MM is out of his league. He is a fine spotter of talent but fails when it comes to a deal

 

[Ned Ryerson]

KANE SAYS: It is impossible to understand what the Hawks set out to achieve here. They bring in a 27-year-old free agent on massive money, but lose their two most accomplished midfielders and their best forward. Hard to see how they win more than six games and the damage of the repeated beatings on the young group will be scarring. Imagine how James Sicily, who is 27 and just signed a five-year contract, is feeling this morning knowing he has not a chance to win a premiership at Hawthorn. What a fall for such a great club.

IN:
Lloyd Meek
Cooper Stephens
Karl Amon
Pick 41, 48, 50
Future 2nd (FRE), Future 4th (BRI)

OUT:
Jaeger O’Meara
Tom Mitchell
Jack Gunston

Kane is the most nonsensical pundit on the bloody planet. He's derided our list for years now - we go full rebuild and he now has a go at that. 'Such a great group' - lol, Kane you have deathridden us for about 3-4 seasons you absolute clownshow of a human being.

Then the Amon on 'MASSIVE' money - you may want to check Port's compensation pick if you think we paid him massive overs.

Oh Kane - never change you absolute comedian.