Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only

[MrPremiership]

The AFL would only get involved if something ridiculous was happening, like we were trading Schoenmakers for Whitfield in a straight swap (for example). It's why they put the kibosh on the trade we were trying to engineer a few years back to get O'Meara through Ladson going to the Giants. Also people need to calm down about Patton. My feeling is we will get him, but let's not pretend he's Wayne Carey reincarnated. He's a risk, in the same way Scully was a risk and if he gets to being a 30 goal a season man we'll have done well out of it.

Of course. The AFL ensure "fair value" is given when trades are done. To ensure its not manipulated.

has nothing to do with the number or quality of the players leaving any one club.

Satisfy GWS with the consideration, then the AFL ticks off the trade.


I can't believe we even have to talk about this crap....

 

[Sixpence]

View attachment 717819
Is this just a dream or a fantasy?

Troll, just move on to a different board.

Mods, surely this earns a red card for ****ing up Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics!

 

[kirbatron]

Was Lachie backup in case Cogs fell through?

Our chips may be all in.

 

[KermitJagger]

How will the AFL get involved? What would they do?

I just don't see the AFL interfering here.

They can do a lot of things, the AFL makes most of it up as they go.

The least they could do is throw a bunch of audits at our financials, and scrutinise the process we've gone through to land those players.

 

[Hawker55]

They can do a lot of things, the AFL makes most of it up as they go.

The least they could do is throw a bunch of audits at our financials, and scrutinise the process we've gone through to land those players.

As Abasi said earlier - the AFL makes up a lot in areas where they have sole power (score review etc). In areas where the AFLPA or the AFLCA get involved they rarely muck about.

 

[Mojo]

The AFL stepping in over perfectly legitimate player movements would raise massive questions of their integrity*. I can't see them sticking their nose in here.

(* They're usually more subtle when foregoing their integrity! Slightly more ... ok, ever so slightly more ...)

Right on, Sixpence!

I don't protest to know exactly how the AFL operates, but all these claims regarding tactile and shadowy movements from the AFL are kind of paranoia, aren't they?

There's a whole infrastructure in place to ensure compensation to a club which loses a free agent.. similarly, trades go through a process whereby both parties have to agree on a fair deal. I can't understand why the AFL would intervene because a particular club are seemingly (from an external perspective) losing players. For example, GWS would attain end-of-round compensation for Coniglio, possibly 2 first-round draft picks for Whitfield, circa $750k off their books for Patton.. NO ONE is bending them over a barrel and taking it all for free!

 

[KermitJagger]

As Abasi said earlier - the AFL makes up a lot in areas where they have sole power (score review etc). In areas where the AFLPA or the AFLCA get involved they rarely muck about.

Right on, Sixpence!

I don't protest to know exactly how the AFL operates, but all these claims regarding tactile and shadowy movements from the AFL are kind of paranoia, aren't they?

There's a whole infrastructure in place to ensure compensation to a club which loses a free agent.. similarly, trades go through a process whereby both parties have to agree on a fair deal. I can't understand why the AFL would intervene because a particular club are seemingly (from an external perspective) losing players. For example, GWS would attain end-of-round compensation for Coniglio, possibly 2 first-round draft picks for Whitfield, circa $750k off their books for Patton.. NO ONE is bending them over a barrel and taking it all for free!

It's not paranoia, this is something they've done multiple times - and it's not shadowy or suspicious movements. On the most part it's out of pure bluster that they do anything and make things up.

They've offered 'ambassador payments' to keep certain players at AFL supported clubs. They investigated Kurt Tippett due to his request to be traded to Sydney until they found illegal payments, and conjured up draft pick bans as punishment. They confiscated COLA payments from Sydney on the back of the Buddy deal, and threw some trade bans on the back end. The entire Essendon drug SAGA bore punishments that were poorly thought out at the very least.

The concern that they'll step in isn't that they'll step in with pointed punishments and intent to stop stuff from happening, it's that they'll step in on the basis of something looking bad and trip into stuff knocking everything over before leaving everything in a mess.

 

[Brant]

To deliver some much needed sanity!

By making uninformed, pessimistic posts???

Seems legit...

 

[TylerDurden]

Media were calling for an investigation re Scully last year. Imagine if this all goes through?

Afl will start with 4.40pm Sunday games every week.

Will be Armageddon!

Burn the boats.

 

[MrPremiership]

Mods, surely this earns a red card for ******* up Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics!

Paraphrasing!!!

 

[Sixpence]

It's not paranoia, this is something they've done multiple times - and it's not shadowy or suspicious movements. On the most part it's out of pure bluster that they do anything and make things up.

They've offered 'ambassador payments' to keep certain players at AFL supported clubs. They investigated Kurt Tippett due to his request to be traded to Sydney until they found illegal payments, and conjured up draft pick bans as punishment. They confiscated COLA payments from Sydney on the back of the Buddy deal, and threw some trade bans on the back end. The entire Essendon drug SAGA bore punishments that were poorly thought out at the very least.

The concern that they'll step in isn't that they'll step in with pointed punishments and intent to stop stuff from happening, it's that they'll step in on the basis of something looking bad and trip into stuff knocking everything over before leaving everything in a mess.

Tippett was a dodgy campaigner, not legitimate.
Essendon were dodgy campaigners, not legitimate.
Sydney were dodgy campaigners (or at least really pushed the boundaries), semi legitimate.
Ambassador payments may entice players but they don't block trades.

None of that is even close to what is being proposed here.

 

[MrPremiership]

As Abasi keeps saying, the Club wouldn't be approaching Whitfield if they didn't think they could get all this done. That includes the mechanics of the actual trade, plus acceptance by the AFL.

This is crazy how far this discussion has gone.

 

[mustang]

I think the Giants would much rather go all out to win at least 1 flag than salary cap dump every season, which they could be doing forever at this stage with the amount of talent on there list. They still have no flag if they lose one first rd pick going for a flag next season big deal.

Ps I hear we have 2 players secured, 3 would be a gold mine.

Is this other then Cogs the 2 players

 

[cryptor]

GWS are in a unique situation where their list is so packed full of elite talent that they can afford to release players who want to leave and still have talented players on the fringes who can come in and greatly improve with that extra opportunity.

If they can lean into this they can continue to turn players like Shiel and Whitfield into multiple first round picks. Those multiple first round picks give them better odds of picking up a player who will make it as an A grade talent, or they can be on-traded to pick up that talent from other teams.

If they continually fight to keep everything they have (which is completely their prerogative to do) then they risk gaining a reputation as a club that players might feel "trapped" at, and they also reduce the compensation they could otherwise get. I'm not saying they should just roll over and essentially be a development program for players who will all go elsewhere at their peak. Instead simply just focus on the players who want to stay and use the ones who don't to power their ability to rejuvenate their list with more young talent in a perpetual cycle.

 

[KermitJagger]

Mate, they could call for an investigation all they want.

If Cogs goes as a FA. It is what it is.
If Whitfield moves for 2x firsts, it’s a fair trade.
If Patton moves for a 2nd/3rd and Hawthorn pick up the salary it’s a fair trade.

The usual suspects in the media could melt eternally, but they’d be doing so about fair and above board transactions.

*not saying we get all these players, but I think the theories that the AFL would not let it happen are a bit much.

I'm not saying the AFL will stop us from getting them, but I'm expecting that the club will go through the ringer in terms of Salary Cap Audits and 'Fair Play' investigations.

 

[nickrebellious]

GWS arent giving us Cogs/Whitfield and Patton in the one off-season lol... Are we seriously conducting a world first in professional sport by poaching 3 of a teams elite players? Wowser.

Don't forget Bonar

 

[Steven Tyler]

As Abasi keeps saying, the Club wouldn't be approaching Whitfield if they didn't think they could get all this done. That includes the mechanics of the actual trade, plus acceptance by the AFL.

This is crazy how far this discussion has gone.

Why are we so sure the club has approached Whitfield?

 

[Brant]

Media were calling for an investigation re Scully last year. Imagine if this all goes through?

Afl will start with 4.40pm Sunday games every week.

Will be Armageddon!

Burn the boats.

If we got Cogs, Whitfield & Patton, as well as Tom Mitchell returning... the AFL could schedule us each week to play at midnight on Tuesdays:

- we'd win each game by 10+ goals; &,
- more people would turn up to watch that side than have turned up this year!

 

[MrPremiership]

Media calling for an investigation is different from the AFL actually doing one.

 

[kirbatron]

There would be uproar & that itself should answer the question.

AFL is all about optics.

Imagine Lordo & the rest of the haters. Nearly as good as a flag.

 

[Faraway Hawk]

Gee whiz, its been a while since I posted but reading through the posts in this thread I've already forgotten about this season. Assuming Patton is already signed sealed and delivered and we could only get one of Cogs or Whitfield who do we go for? who compliments our list better? (Anyway we can do a poll on this?) I would personally prefer Whitfield over Cogs if it was only 1 of the 2.

 

[Milkshaker]

I think people are skeptical about getting all three on the back of stories of Gil wining and dining Dylan Shiel and his family a while back. At the time there were indications he was being courted by the Hawks. The AFL also put paid to the early attempt to get O'Meara to the club.

I am absolutely convinced they would be interfering in someway if this was to happen (i.e. get Patton, Whitfield and Cogs in the one hit). Its in their DNA.

Personally, I would like to get Patton and Cogs and keep our early picks and have a crack at Whifield as a free hit next year. However, internally the club may believe it could challenge, next year, if we grabbed Whitfield as well. Who knows?

 

[moistie]

Why are we so sure the club has approached Whitfield?

He's a mad Hawthorn supporter, we would have been in his ear since before he was drafted. There are also apocryphal stories of Whitfield telling all and sundry he will be a Hawk in 2021 after a few when out on the town.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

By making uninformed, pessimistic posts???

Seems legit...

Who is informed here?

So only optimistic posts need apply? plz have a lie down

 

[MrPremiership]

Who is informed here?

So only optimistic posts need apply? plz have a lie down

Being pessimistic doesn't make you balanced.

It's a discussion thread. Trolls come in for whatever reason. Some of the thread is good, some not so much.