Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only

[Ned Ryerson]

Only going on what was said in the “media” with SPP.
Are you saying that the difference in the level of there ( Whitfield’s and Bennells) history ( as reported in the media) is relevant if the club is in a position to take them or not?

Playing devil’s advocate is fun and all - but you are just being a dick for the sake of being a dick at this point. Bennell has MULTIPLE incidents that have been reported and not disputed. SPP has one incident that was reported and then strongly pushed back on by the club that the reporting was inaccurate. There’s a monumentally big difference there.

You’re comparing something the media said which was then strongly condemned as being factually inaccurate and one incident with Whitfield from 2016 from numerous incidents with Bennell from 2013-2019. If you can’t see the differences here then you’re beyond help.

 

[PenAndPaper]

So what your trying to say is my solution is a good one then?

Yep & saying that your fear of a team tanking to miss finals in unfounded. Tbf I think any compo pick should just be at the end of a round, none of this mid round or straight after your pick. Just make it the end of the round or none at all.

Don't get me wrong you could lose say a former brownlow medalist for pick 19 but it is free agency so should be happy you get anything at all.

 

[MrPremiership]

And at least 160 more pages of this until then!

160? Why so conservative?

I'm thinking 300 at least

 

[Bugs1977]

Yep & saying that your fear of a team tanking to miss finals in unfounded. Tbf I think any compo pick should just be at the end of a round, none of this mid round or straight after your pick. Just make it the end of the round or none at all.

Don't get me wrong you could lose say a former brownlow medalist for pick 19 but it is free agency so should be happy you get anything at all.

I think the issue with my proposal would be how do you class an A grader and you'd assume the guidelines would have to be crystal clear. Maybe something like if they were select as an All Australian within the last 3 years or something like that. Also I would go one step further and say that any compo picks by a non-finalist that loses an A grader should fall just before any finalist pick in the draft. The worse finishing non-finalist gets a compo pick starting at pick 11 where technically the team that finishes 8th on the ladder would pick and so on and so on. Using the Suns for an example this year would be if they were to lose and A grader (Fiorini) as a free agent then they would get the 1st pick in the draft for finishing last and also pick 11 as a compo for losing their A grader (Fiorini).

We all know the AFL don't use their brains with these things so it would be like beating a dead horse

 

[PenAndPaper]

You can't just include the improvement of younger blokes though, without talking about drop offs from Gunston, Bruest, Stratton and Smith since 2018.

Its also a bit of the whole but have they dropped off because our inside midfield depth took a hit & our movement forward has been terrible?

Its definitely a bit of its and buts but all in all I think our list is stronger than has been suggested by a lot of people.

 

[SuperSic]

What we need first and foremost is a free hit at an A grader (Coniglio) combined with not giving up any 1st rounder/s. The free hit allows us to kill two birds with one stone by essentially adding an A grader (Coniglio) and hopefully drafting another one in the draft. Missing out on Coniglio this offseason would be a disaster because if we trade for Whitfield we'll likely have to do so by trading at bare minimum our 2019 1st rounder and more than likely more than that. Going that route means we'll add one A grader rather than two.

We need this free hit like a fat kid needs cake.

This is assuming that every single pick between 5 and 20 has a 100% chance of becoming an A-grader though, which is absolutely not the case. In fact they aren't even likely to play 100 games, let alone reach the level of Whitfield.

I just posted in the rebuild model thread about why high draft picks are overrated and why the Whitfield trade would make sense, if you care to check that out

 

[tommyk72]

Fat kids like more things than just cake.

Hence why they're fat.

Also, they like cake. They don't need it. They're clearly not suffering from now enough food.

 

[Bugs1977]

This is assuming that every single pick between 5 and 20 has a 100% chance of becoming an A-grader though, which is absolutely not the case. In fact they aren't even likely to play 100 games, let alone reach the level of Whitfield.

I just posted in the rebuild model thread about why high draft picks are overrated and why the Whitfield trade would make sense, if you care to check that out

I understand what you are saying about high end draft picks having a chance of being busts but a lot of the time that can be attributed to the teams shitty scouting team or selecting a player for positional fit rather than the best player available (IMO always go best player available). The HFC has not been immune to this in the past as we've definitely had our fair share of duds over the years. I still maintain that if the scouts are doing their jobs to the best of their ability then the chances of getting a bust is limited. Obviously injuries cannot be planned for and will sometimes make players look like busts (i.e. Jonathan O'Rourke, Paddy McCartin). My point here being that your draft picks are only as overrated if you don't nail them.

Now I'm not saying Whitfield isn't a gun but to give up 2 x 1st rounders for him in the offseason is not something we can afford to do. Anyways I'll have a look at your post you mentioned.

 

[MrPremiership]

Hasn't been news of any contract re-signings for a while....and we've got the highest amount of players in the league coming out of contract. Gives you a fair insight that something big is cooking.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Wowser if there was one player in the league I could see Clarko salivating over with the chance to improve his game and develop him would be Sam Powell Pepper.

Really? I think he is the exact opposite of what Clarko values, the ability to hit a target and to roll through different parts of the ground. In all honesty, I think SPP is the type of player Clarko filtered out of our club when he arrived.

No denying his grunt and contested work, but just not a smart footballer and chops it up too much.

 

[OnceKicked50]

If we end up getting Coniglio as a free agent, Mitchell back from injury, secure that top 10 draft pick which is likely to be used on the best available midfielder, get Maguinness as a F/S pick, then that’s essentially four midfielders added in the best 22 going into next year.

This will likely see the contested possession, clearance, tackle and inside 50 count go up significantly next year.

Let's calm the farm on Maguinness a little dude. Pretty crazy calling him best 22 at this point man. If anything, Jones seems every chance to break through next year.

 

[triple treat]

Playing devil’s advocate is fun and all - but you are just being a dick for the sake of being a dick at this point. Bennell has MULTIPLE incidents that have been reported and not disputed. SPP has one incident that was reported and then strongly pushed back on by the club that the reporting was inaccurate. There’s a monumentally big difference there.

You’re comparing something the media said which was then strongly condemned as being factually inaccurate and one incident with Whitfield from 2016 from numerous incidents with Bennell from 2013-2019. If you can’t see the differences here then you’re beyond help.

Not being a dick at all mate, just making a point. Young men with big wages do dumb shit sometimes but it doesn’t mean that there bad people for the rest of there lives. Anyway If by some chance we get Bennell and we get his calves sorted I will be pretty happy.

 

[philthy05]

Only going on what was said in the “media” with SPP.
Are you saying that the difference in the level of there ( Whitfield’s and Bennells) history ( as reported in the media) is relevant if the club is in a position to take them or not?

In regards to SPP that big thing in the media turned out to be bullshit and the media was very very quiet when that happened so lots of people are misinformed because of that.

FWIW what happened was a girl made a comment on fb about an encounter with spp. One of her friends obviously then shared that with a local journalist who is a card carrying Adelaide crows fanatic who approached the girl over Facebook, and openly asked for people to come forward regarding spp using leading and suggesting language and ran with the story.

When it came out port Adelaide asked the police to investigate (the gir hadn’t reported an incident)

The police found that video evidence not only cleared spp but that the girls version of events couldn’t possibly have been true.

Port Adelaide or the afl (forget which) suspended spp for being put late/drinking last curfew.

The Adelaide media swept it under the rug. Most people don’t have a clue he was cleared and think the curfew ban was a ban for the thing he was cleared of.

Spp does actually come across as a bit of a loose unit but more young kid loose unit rather than whatever the media painted him as and has let stick.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

In regards to SPP that big thing in the media turned out to be bulls**t and the media was very very quiet when that happened so lots of people are misinformed because of that.

FWIW what happened was a girl made a comment on fb about an encounter with spp. One of her friends obviously then shared that with a local journalist who is a card carrying Adelaide crows fanatic who approached the girl over Facebook, and openly asked for people to come forward regarding spp using leading and suggesting language and ran with the story.

When it came out port Adelaide asked the police to investigate (the gir hadn’t reported an incident)

The police found that video evidence not only cleared spp but that the girls version of events couldn’t possibly have been true.

Port Adelaide or the afl (forget which) suspended spp for being put late/drinking last curfew.

The Adelaide media swept it under the rug. Most people don’t have a clue he was cleared and think the curfew ban was a ban for the thing he was cleared of.

Spp does actually come across as a bit of a loose unit but more young kid loose unit rather than whatever the media painted him as and has let stick.

Cheers for clarifying. Really not sure how an unconfirmed and strongly rebuked media fabrication gets compared to the multiple unchallenged reports about Bennell at multiple clubs over multiple years now - but hey, that's bigfooty for you.

 

[HawksILove]

Any talk on Noah Anderson on our part?

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Brishawk]

Any talk on Noah Anderson on our part?

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Unless we give up Breust I can’t see us getting Noah. If we had pick 3 then maybe we could work a trade with gc. But that won’t happen so I think it’s time to look further down the list.

 

[cryptor]

Any talk on Noah Anderson on our part?

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Seems to be a bit of a pipe dream now our form and ladder movement has done a 180. I'm thinking our best chance of getting him outside of trading for pick 1 is to hope he lands at Gold Coast and we can rescue extract him 2-3 years from now.

 

[Sixpence]

Any talk on Noah Anderson on our part?

From what I can understand, we're keen, but would be pretty tough to get our hands on.

 

[Millsie69]

If we get cogs and Mitchell comes back and wingard plays more midfield, is cousins even going to get a game?

My thoughts exactly.

I think Cousins is good, solid depth. But I don't think he'd get a game in our full strength midfield.

Hence he's playing VFL right now.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Any talk on Noah Anderson on our part?

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Not going to happen, our last couple of wins means are draft positioning won't be in the same ball park as Noah Anderson. Anyways talk of Noah Anderson really isn't for this thread.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

If we get cogs and Mitchell comes back and wingard plays more midfield, is cousins even going to get a game?

No chance as he isn't really flexible enough to play forward or back, basically he'll just go back to dominating for Box Hill as he's a super player at VFL level.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wonder what our plan is if we miss out on Cogs and Whitfield.

Does that mean the club changes strategy and mini rebuild?

What if we don’t need one.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

What if we don’t need one.

Hahaha I'm praying that's the case, need Coniglio and Whitfield both playing at Hawthorn by Round 1 2021.

 

[Dewnior]

The solution is to have more free agents. Lose a player through free agency and get another through free agency with your cap space. The heavy restrictions impose a penalty on clubs when a player leaves because the pool of free agents is so small. This year wasn’t a very good group and neither is next year’s pool. More could be done to encourage player options during free agency similar to kelly’s Deal. You sign them at 24 for a 3 plus 2 contract. Player has the option of leaving as a free agent or staying on. Also you could lower the eligibility Down to 5 years. I don’t see why Cripps should have to wast 3/4 of his career at Carlton before he can be in a position to leave given Carlton will never trade him.

Haven't they just introduced or about to introduce Free Agency for life? That will drastically increase the pool and quality of FAs each year.

Lowering the number of eligible years will increase it even more

 

[Bugs1977]

Hahaha I'm praying that's the case, need Coniglio and Whitfield both playing at Hawthorn by Round 1 2021.

I assume this is what Dave Matthews feels like reading your comment