List Mgmt. Hawthorn 2018 Trade discussion NO OPPOSITION SUPPORTERS Part 3

[MinerBoy]

Rucks are inconsequential yet West Coast won a grand final based on literally tagging the opposition ruck out of the game. I'd say the Grand Final reaffirms the importance of a good ruck, if West Coast hadn't had good enough rucks to run with Grundy they would have never come back to win.

That just shows my point really... throw any half decent bloke in there and the supposed gun rucks can be nullified. We did it against Sandilands all the time. They aren't hard to limit. Missing their own gun ruckman wasn't an issue for WCE.

 

[bradburygold]

That bloke just called Trade Radio ago suggesting we're up to something with our 2019 1st. Sounds like he just reads bigfooty

 

[Sirlemsip]

Burton would’ve freed up some salary space again.

This

Burton = Scully in terms of salary outlay
Wingard = what we would have been expecting to pay Rioli

Still have the 500k from Ty's contract, plus Duryea ($350ish?)

 

[Gralin]

That just shows my point really... throw any half decent bloke in there and the supposed gun rucks can be nullified. We did it against Sandilands all the time. They aren't hard to limit. Missing their own gun ruckman wasn't an issue for WCE.

I think rucks can be nullified at ruck contests most of the time but not always

Monkey and Hale were great at doing this, BB and Cegs not as successful at it but still more often than not do well enough even against better rated opponents in the ruck.

I think for teams that have a really good player as a ruck they are important to how that team is successful, like any really good player is, you build your structures and game plan around your strengths.

But I agree that you don't need superstar rucks to be successful. I think the reason their importance gets over inflated is because a) you only play one or two so a good ruck stands out and gets his name called more and b) when they do get a clean tap to a good mid its usually very damaging.

The issue is you need the mids and rucks working together otherwise you end up with Freo where it doesn't matter that you have a dominant ruck because the other team beats you at his feet

Sometimes the rucks have a good game because their mids get on top, sometimes they help their mids get on top but I think everyone would rather have a Buddy up forward than a Gawn in the middle, most would probably take a Gov down back over a Gawn as well, and that is the key

 

[Mercy Seat]

That bloke just called Trade Radio ago suggesting we're up to something with our 2019 1st. Sounds like he just reads bigfooty

If we could use it to get earlier in the draft this year, maybe 2 second rounders, that would just about make the period complete for me.

We've got up until draft night to swap those around, so unless we are looking at a Patton, can't see anything else happening today with these.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Wtf? Clarko mustn’t really rate Ryan at all! Seriously this is disappointing, not just losing a 21 year old but to give up pick 35 is a reaming. No two ways about it, here I was thinking we have s strong hand in the draft with 35+53 , knowing is that we would turn those into gold!
We on the flip side would never get that deal get to us on the way back if roles were reversed. Bloody fuming right now, I hope I get over it quickly because I love the CHAD!

 

[bradburygold]

Has anyone seen if the earlier reported Wingard salary of $2.5m over 4 / $625k p.a. has been confirmed or reported again after the trade?

 

[beta_condition]

This

Burton = Scully in terms of salary outlay
Wingard = what we would have been expecting to pay Rioli

Still have the 500k from Ty's contract, plus Duryea ($350ish?)

Hawthorn still have alot of cap space to play with even with our 3 intakes.

 

[Gralin]

Wtf? Clarko mustn’t really rate Ryan at all! Seriously this is disappointing, not just losing a 21 year old but to give up pick 35 is a reaming. No two ways about it, here I was thinking we have s strong hand in the draft with 35+53 , knowing is that we would turn those into gold!
We on the flip side would never get that deal get to us on the way back if roles were reversed. Bloody fuming right now, I hope I get over it quickly because I love the CHAD!

we got a future 3rd back to replace the one we traded for Scully and Scrimshaw which means we can use our future first this year in trades if we want to

could be more to play out but we gave ourselves some flexibility with that, whether we use it is the question

 

[Hawk88]

That bloke just called Trade Radio ago suggesting we're up to something with our 2019 1st. Sounds like he just reads bigfooty

That's the same bloke that has called about 4 times today. he said in an earlier call that TOB would be part of the Wingard trade

I personally think we wont trade it as i think we want 2 first rounders available next year as there is juicy un-contracted players next year.

Also acts as an insurance policy in the event Cogs/Kelly accept our free agency offer and GWS match the offer forcing a trade

 

[crazywildhorse]

Wtf? Clarko mustn’t really rate Ryan at all! Seriously this is disappointing, not just losing a 21 year old but to give up pick 35 is a reaming. No two ways about it, here I was thinking we have s strong hand in the draft with 35+53 , knowing is that we would turn those into gold!
We on the flip side would never get that deal get to us on the way back if roles were reversed. Bloody fuming right now, I hope I get over it quickly because I love the CHAD!

Chad is Clarkson’s favourite player.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Hawthorn still have alot of cap space to play with even with our 3 intakes.

If Burton was on 500,000 or more, it might have been part of what impacted the club's decision to move him. I doubt any young Hawks player would be on that money, and i think the club would pay it begrudgingly. But I am not ITK.

 

[Hawker55]

Wtf? Clarko mustn’t really rate Ryan at all! Seriously this is disappointing, not just losing a 21 year old but to give up pick 35 is a reaming. No two ways about it, here I was thinking we have s strong hand in the draft with 35+53 , knowing is that we would turn those into gold!
We on the flip side would never get that deal get to us on the way back if roles were reversed. Bloody fuming right now, I hope I get over it quickly because I love the CHAD!

What is more important in developing a good role player - where they are drafted, or key attributes and the system they develop in? You can tell the clubs that aren't going anywhere fast - they're still operating on the 15 year old thinking of "high drafts picks over all else". The clubs that are managing to stay up the top realised that it's the system that's important and that once you're outside the top 10, you may as well trade for known quantities than take a chance on the draft. See us, the Cats, the Swans.

 

[Mitchell54]

Hawthorn still have alot of cap space to play with even with our 3 intakes.

Apparently Scrimshaw was taking a bigger portion than merited at GC so not sure if we’re taking some of that and how much. Was on 400K apparently.

 

[mustang]

So eloquently said. Do you think our footy/medico/conditioning dept will not agree with you as they take on the challenge to get these two blokes into making a contribution at AFL level and not VFL level. I have spoken with one of our Conditioning guys tonight, and his news on Scully was “it was an ugly injury, not in surmountable, but just like JOM, it will take time, but hopefully we will get him tearing up the members wing”.
That said, are you able to find a glimmer of hope for us given what we have spent to give us this opportunity.
Do our List blokes deserve some acknowledgement ??
Yes, some of the stuff on here has been exaggerated, but surely even you could find some positive acknowledgement.

Perhaps after tomorrow your cynicism might be better placed. Time will tell.

Finally have you changed your account from one that we normally hear from ????

Tops do you still feel that same after the Wingard deal.

 

[skipjack]

Wtf? Clarko mustn’t really rate Ryan at all! Seriously this is disappointing, not just losing a 21 year old but to give up pick 35 is a reaming. No two ways about it, here I was thinking we have s strong hand in the draft with 35+53 , knowing is that we would turn those into gold!
We on the flip side would never get that deal get to us on the way back if roles were reversed. Bloody fuming right now, I hope I get over it quickly because I love the CHAD!

If the difference between you thinking it's a good deal or not is pick 35 I reckon you'll be over it the first time Wingard slots one from the pocket.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Rucks are inconsequential yet West Coast won a grand final based on literally tagging the opposition ruck out of the game. I'd say the Grand Final reaffirms the importance of a good ruck, if West Coast hadn't had good enough rucks to run with Grundy they would have never come back to win.

Man, you are so correct. As for the knockers Watch how Ottens won the Grand Final for Geelong when he took out Jolly at the very first bounce. Have a good look at the dominance of Clark Keating in the Brisbane trifecta of grand finals. The list goes on but I simply do not have the time or inclination to detail all examples.

I know that there are many on here who have no idea of the importance of dominating rucks, especially in grand finals, and I am not going to waste my time in trying to convince those otherwise.

 

[thejockey]

Really happy to get Wingard, wrapt actually . We now have 3 potential 40+ goal kickers and a guy who is also pretty handy on ball .
Yep we paid overs but I like how if we want a player we make it happen.
In two seasons people will be saying it was a great trade.

Sad that Burton was the collateral damage but that’s how it is . HBFs are fairly easy to replace no matter how good they are.
Time to move on because I think we have a pretty exciting side to watch in 2019

 

[Glenhope]

"Hawthorn has traded Ryan Burton, Rd 1 (15), Rd 2 (35) & its Future Rd 4 Selection (on traded from W.Bulldogs) to Port Adelaide for Chad Wingard and its Future Rd 3 Selection."

Been out all day. Just got back. This is way overs, isn't it? Wow. What happened to the savvy trading masterminds?

 

[eldorado]

So, I thought I would try my hand at this 'meme' thing...

 

[Scissor4life]

Rucks are inconsequential yet West Coast won a grand final based on literally tagging the opposition ruck out of the game. I'd say the Grand Final reaffirms the importance of a good ruck, if West Coast hadn't had good enough rucks to run with Grundy they would have never come back to win.

new rules bring big rucks back into the game IMO

 

[KermitJagger]

Really happy to get Wingard, wrapt actually . We now have 3 potential 40+ goal kickers and a guy who is also pretty handy on ball .
Yep we paid overs but I like how if we want a player we make it happen.
In two seasons people will be saying it was a great trade.

Sad that Burton was the collateral damage but that’s how it is . HBFs are fairly easy to replace no matter how good they are.
Time to move on because I think we have a pretty exciting side to watch in 2019

Rough, Breust, Gunners, Chad all have 40 goal potential. They've all had 50 goal seasons actually.

 

[Clarkos_Soldier]

Time to put some $$ on the Dees for 2019
May + Lever back, Kolo as steak knives... didn't lose anyone of note - surely go in as favourites now

You are talking about Melbourne. They can snatch a loss from the jaws of victory.

Plus I'm not sold on May. He might do very well but so far here's what I know about him:

1. He can't lead and runs away from leadership.
2. Has inspired his side to lower lows.
3. Runs away from his job and responsibilities even though he was paid handsomely for it.

I'd rather give a top 10 pick for another Spangher than someone lacking in so many ways.

 

[QuietB]

What can you get with 233 points

Horry shit

 

[Billyc]

"Hawthorn has traded Ryan Burton, Rd 1 (15), Rd 2 (35) & its Future Rd 4 Selection (on traded from W.Bulldogs) to Port Adelaide for Chad Wingard and its Future Rd 3 Selection."

Been out all day. Just got back. This is way overs, isn't it? Wow. What happened to the savvy trading masterminds?

We traded out a promising player and a bunch of lottery tickets for a star player with the ability to be a top 20 player in the competition.