Moved Thread Hawthorn - Excuse Now?

[Bardo State]

There are no excuses. We had our chances and didn't take them. Whether you depict that as choking, mental fragility or just bad luck is up for interpretation.

What I will say is that Geelong are without doubt the team with the toughest mental resolve in the competition. The fact that the hawks were getting smashed in the centre bounces and in the air in defence, yet still had the drive to put themselves in s situation where they had as many scoring shots as the cats in that last term is no slight on the hawks team.

Where we lost was our finishing, which is something I would put down to pressure and rustiness early in the season. We choked, but I doubt it had anything to do with the colour of the opposition jumpers.

In all it's shitty that we lost to the cats, again. However I think for all the doom and gloom talk, a two point loss to the best team in the comp in round 2 will probably be seen as fairly insignificant when the 2012 journey runs it's course.

 

[Arbuckle]

When the heat is really on there are too many fragile minds out there in brown and gold.

Let's face it, if the Pies weren't as dusty in front of goal that game would have been all over at half time.

For mine the Hawks are behind Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton and West Coast atm. Adelaide, Freo and Sydney would probably beat them interstate as well.

I think we can now say with confidence that 2008 was a fluke.

Dispicable.

Good post.

Hawthorn are the ultimate frontrunners. Their reaction to last week's win (which was far less impressive than their players and coach seemed to think) was typical of their complacency - and I reckon it came back to bite them on the arse today.

They simply don't have enough players who are ready to go to war in the most tough, intense games. (And, as usual, their best players today were some of their least well-known.) In fact, it's amazing how many of their 'big' names don't turn up to play when it really counts. Despite the media jizzfest over him, I agree with your nickname when it comes to big games - Rioli, as one example, is near-invisible in these matches over and over again.

Teams like Geelong beat them in spades in this department.

 

[FoxC]

Hawks flag favorites???Please!!!

Cats supporters are so scared to admit they are the flag favorites..

There's no false modesty here, and I'm not playing down Geelong's heroics today.

But if you asked most neutral supporters I'm pretty sure you'd get the same opinion as mine.

 

[Bardo State]

Good post.

Hawthorn are the ultimate frontrunners. Their reaction to last week's win (which was far less impressive than their players and coach seemed to think) was typical of their complacency - and I reckon it came back to bite them on the arse today.

They simply don't have enough players who are ready to go to war in the most tough, intense games. (And, as usual, their best players today were some of their least well-known.) In fact, it's amazing how many of their 'big' names don't turn up to play when it really counts. Despite the media jizzfest over him, I agree with your nickname when it comes to big games - Rioli, as one example, is near-invisible in these matches over and over again.

Teams like Geelong beat them in spades in this department.

You really don't have much of a clue, do you?

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

I thought Hawthorn just about won the grand final last weekend!? What happened?

 

[Partridge]

Best thing about it is the pressure that it keeps on the bottom 5. Stokes and Shagga better be worried.

Stokes should not be getting a game next week under any circumstances. Was absolutely atrocious today. Hopefully his gold pass will finally run out.

 

[seysearles]

Rioli, as one example, is near-invisible in these matches over and over again.

You're either stupid or you didn't watch the match or both. Rioli was particularly damaging today and was in our best handful.

 

[Sttew]

Game of the year?? It's gonna be one sh!t year if at the end of it we are talking about today's game as one of the best. The 1st half was rubbish - error riddled, scrappy, I fair dinkum turned over to the racing channel it was so painful to watch. 2nd half was better, closeness of scores obviously kept interest high, but it is hardly going to be regarded as one of the classics

This game wasn't played in the same perfect conditions as Pies v Tigers. And I have to disagree. This was a shit hot game, and I'd be saying the same if Cats had lost.

 

[Ugle Dick]

It's been pretty obvious since their flag triumph in 2008. Hawthorn are a very weak willed and don't possess the mental toughness to be a legitimate threat to the premiership. Yes, they have a reasonable team but the pure and simple fact they can't get over top teams when the pressure is on shows they are far from a legitimate challenger for the flag.

2008 was supposed to be the start of the dynasty but frankly it has been only a period of failure and shortcomings. Their list was capable of winning multiple flags since 2008 but have fallen short every season. From what we've seen this year, nothing has changed. A marginal win over an injury ravaged pies team and a loss to a depleted Geelong while being almost full strength doesn't inspire much confidence for their prospects especially after you consider their constant choking in the pressure games.

Interesting to note many of the esteemed BF Hawks fans were lamenting their Melbourne and Richmond counter parts for 'having a culture of defeat and accepting mediocrity' etc earlier this week. Something about not throwing stones in glass houses comes to mind

 

[Arbuckle]

You're either stupid or you didn't watch the match or both. Rioli was particularly damaging today and was in our best handful.

How embarrassing to abuse people for being stupid when *you* are the one who is wrong.

I'm sure most people with any idea would agree that Rioli had very little positive influence today. (As has been the case repeatedly in big games.) Let alone being in your best handful. What a joke.

In getting so personal about this, you are showing yourself to be biased as well as rude.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Some of the trolling here is Bay worthy

 

[Cursed Cat]

There are no excuses. We had our chances and didn't take them. Whether you depict that as choking, mental fragility or just bad luck is up for interpretation.

What I will say is that Geelong are without doubt the team with the toughest mental resolve in the competition. The fact that the hawks were getting smashed in the centre bounces and in the air in defence, yet still had the drive to put themselves in s situation where they had as many scoring shots as the cats in that last term is no slight on the hawks team.

Where we lost was our finishing, which is something I would put down to pressure and rustiness early in the season. We choked, but I doubt it had anything to do with the colour of the opposition jumpers.

In all it's shitty that we lost to the cats, again. However I think for all the doom and gloom talk, a two point loss to the best team in the comp in round 2 will probably be seen as fairly insignificant when the 2012 journey runs it's course.

seen a bit of this from Hawks supporters on the board after Geelong's win today - whereas during the off-season all I read was Hawks supporters claiming they would go past us simply because Ling and Ottens had retired - no mention of us being the best team in the comp then !

I reckon WCE and Carlton are currently the best teams in the comp, wouldn't be surprised to see them play off to be honest.

 

[Pessimistic]

It's been pretty obvious since their flag triumph in 2008. Hawthorn are a very weak willed and don't possess the mental toughness to be a legitimate threat to the premiership. Yes, they have a reasonable team but the pure and simple fact they can't get over top teams when the pressure is on shows they are far from a legitimate challenger for the flag.

2008 was supposed to be the start of the dynasty but frankly it has been only a period of failure and shortcomings. Their list was capable of winning multiple flags since 2008 but have fallen short every season. From what we've seen this year, nothing has changed. A marginal win over an injury ravaged pies team and a loss to a depleted Geelong while being almost full strength doesn't inspire much confidence for their prospects especially after you consider their constant choking in the pressure games.

Interesting to note many of the esteemed BF Hawks fans were lamenting their Melbourne and Richmond counter parts for 'having a culture of defeat and accepting mediocrity' etc earlier this week. Something about not throwing stones in glass houses comes to mind

'Interesting' that hawks have had injuries a plenty since 2008 but they are just 'shortcomings'

But beating another team and THEY are injury-ravaged ?

Forked tongue mate. Geelong will thrash your team AGAIN

And yes, we did choke today, because we should have capitalised on having better of the play and getting into scoring positions

 

[SA HAWK]

seen a bit of this from Hawks supporters on the board after Geelong's win today - whereas during the off-season all I read was Hawks supporters claiming they would go past us simply because Ling and Ottens had retired - no mention of us being the best team in the comp then !

I reckon WCE and Carlton are currently the best teams in the comp, wouldn't be surprised to see them play off to be honest.

I admit i expected us to win today and i expect to finish higher than Geelong this year.

Still no excuses for losing today.

As for West Coast and Carlton yes they both look very good so far but neither team has played anyone you would expect to make the 8 this year.

 

[Ugle Dick]

Some of the trolling here is Bay worthy

Probably just and deserved karma - hawk fans are very fair weathered - beat your chest when things are going good and vanish when things start to go astray.

How the hawks get labelled as flag favourites year after year is beyond me - they don't possess the pedigree and there needs to be questions asked of Clarko, the players, the culture and mental conditioning of the club.

Geelong showed the AFL world today that they are the best team of this generation for a reason and that their culture is unmatched by any other club in the league. In my eyes, they are the team to beat in 2012.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

who are the 8 out?

Not saying they're all first teamers or anything, but Scarlett, Wojcinski, Varcoe, J. Hunt, Stephenson (whether you consider his illness BS or not), Menzel, Vardy and Simpson.

 

[Bardo State]

Geelong showed the AFL world today that they are the best team of this generation for a reason and that their culture is unmatched by any other club in the league. In my eyes, they are the team to beat in 2012.

So the cats win by two points over a team that finished below them the previous year with comparable outs (and I'm being generous to the cats here) and yet for them it is a stamp on their claim as one of the greatest ever, yet everyone bar the waterboy should come into question at the hawks?

Interesting logic to say the least...

 

[tropicaltiger]

I don't think Hawthorn did choke. All that happened was that the Cats started playing a hell of a lot harder in terms of trying to win contested footy.

They turned it on for the first half of the third quarter, but the Cats let the intensity drop off again.

In the last quarter they did it again and managed to sustain it for the whole quarter.

Geelong had plenty of motivation. On top of the usual anti-Hawthorn feeling, they were embarassed last week and got a needling in the media during the week. Points to prove and all that.

All in all it was two very good teams playing a very close match and one just shading the other, again. No choking involved.

Stop being so nice they choked

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

So the cats win by two points over a team that finished below them the previous year with comparable outs (and I'm being generous to the cats here) and yet for them it is a stamp on their claim as one of the greatest ever, yet everyone bar the waterboy should come into question at the hawks?

Interesting logic to say the least...

Collingwood kicked 2.7 against you guys last week in the first to 2.1 and we kicked 5 goals 7 in the third. Bad kicking can kill you in any game but when you lose the vultures circle last week it was for us this week for the Hawks rather funny really.

 

[Bardo State]

Collingwood kicked 2.7 against you guys last week in the first to 2.1 and we kicked 5 goals 7 in the third. Bad kicking can kill you in any game but when you lose the vultures circle last week it was for us this week for the Hawks rather funny really.

Difference is that Collingwood were actually put away fairly comfortably and the entire fabric of the club wasn't questioned by a select few.

 

[hk89]

seen a bit of this from Hawks supporters on the board after Geelong's win today - whereas during the off-season all I read was Hawks supporters claiming they would go past us simply because Ling and Ottens had retired

Well, whoever was saying that appears to be only 2 points away from being right In the past close losses, it seemed players like Bartel, Selwood and Chapman really took the game away from us, and the losses really looked to be about the Cats completely controlling the last quarter, leaving the Hawk's with very little say in the outcome. Today, Bartel and Selwood certainly impacted the result, but it also took a fair bit of incompetence in our own forward line to help them along. In the past, Geelong seemed to be winning those last quarters, no matter what we did, I don't think that was so much the case this time, we really seemed to shoot ourselves in the foot on numerous occasions (and often with no direct pressure from a Cats player). Cats were still great, and it was bitterly disappointing to be on the losing end of it. Again. However, I think we were closer to finally winning one today than any game last year, and I'm not just talking about the closeness of the final score. Seems the gap is definitely smaller than last year.

Having said that, it is hard to watch all the missed opportunities to win in the last quarter, and not think there is a big mental factor in play now. It is no longer just a case of Geelong finding that bit extra, we genuinely seemed to shit ourselves today, in a way I don't think we have in the previous string of losses. I cling to the hope that the loss of Ottens and Ling will be more strongly felt when their respective natural matchups of Bailey and Hodge (previously Ling's undeniable bitch) are back in the side, (yes, I understand that Cats had significant outs too), but the cats young players seemed to do a great job of soaking up the pressure today, so that may be a vain hope.

Well done to the Cats on taking the opportunity to extend the mental hold they seem to have over the Hawks.

Oh, and a special mention to the pies fans trolling this thread. Apart from showing a general lack of class in not appreciating a great game of footy, good luck making the top 4 this year. Pies have an ordinary list outside your top 4-5 players (i.e. no depth), and you've lost the architect of the game plan that allowed your list to win a flag (after two goes at it) in 2010, despite the list's shortcomings. Unlike some other contenders, pies will need close to a 100% fit side to be any chance in September.

You only wish you could get close enough to Geelong to actually choke (average losing margin over your last two games = 11 goals. LOL). Try closing out a game against Richmond, or going on with it after hitting the front in the last quarter against Hawks before you start pointing the finger at other clubs, and their last quarter fade-outs. Oh, and last years prelim? Who gives a shit? You lost the flag didn't you, and by a margin a bit larger than 2 points?

The reality is that both Pies and Hawks will have to fight hard for a spot in the top 4, in what so far looks like a much more even top 6 than last year. Given our win over your mob, and our ability to get a lot closer to the cats than you have over your last two clashes, I'd not be feeling too secure if I was you (I suspect it is that insecurity which is driving the disrespect from most Collingwood posters in this thread).

 

[Sidebottom2Beams]

Difference is that Collingwood were actually put away fairly comfortably and the entire fabric of the club wasn't questioned by a select few.

You can say you put us away comfortably in the end but Hawthorn should have been put away earlier but bad kicking is bad football. Hawthorns main issue even in the game against Collingwood is teams can be 4 goals down in the game and teams can make it up. In Hawthorns last 3 games they have given up leads they shouldn't have.

 

[hk89]

Probably just and deserved karma - hawk fans are very fair weathered - beat your chest when things are going good and vanish when things start to go astray.

I call bullshit on this claim. We just had what is a very bitter loss - against what for many Hawk's fans is our most hated rival - and yet this thread is full of Hawk's fans congratulating Geelong on the win. There would be an even higher ratio of Hawk's posters in this thread, if it wasn't being diluted by the deluge of Pie's fans gloating at the team that beat them last week going down in a close one. Poor form, but not unexpected from your classless bunch.

How the hawks get labelled as flag favourites year after year is beyond me - they don't possess the pedigree and there needs to be questions asked of Clarko, the players, the culture and mental conditioning of the club.

Year after year? You mean in 2009 after we just won the flag? At which stages were we favourites for 2010 and 2011? Again, I call bullshit on this claim (from a fan still offended from the previous week's loss).

We comfortably beat last year's runner up last week, and came within two points of the reigning premier this week, obviously the punters who think we are chance in 2012 are complete imbeciles? At least someone is.

 

[jive]

God people on this site need to get a grip on their inane, crackpot, bar-stool thought-out rants. Take out a few poor decisions and some brain farts and the hawks could have beaten a champion side by 3 - 4 goals. This mental edge stuff that will be written to death this week by idiot journalists, such as caroline wilson, is crap.

Some tweaks in the 4th and some better luck/decisions and everyone would be writing off Geelong and stating that we should just hand the flag over to the hawks right now. Sure, we've been made their bitches since 2008, but who haven't they smashed in that time? The hawks are certainly one of the only sides who are presently capable of beating them at the MCG.

 

[hk89]

You can say you put us away comfortably in the end

Yes, we can, because we did.

Hawthorns main issue even in the game against Collingwood is teams can be 4 goals down in the game and teams can make it up. In Hawthorns last 3 games they have given up leads they shouldn't have.

Collingwood's main problem in winning another flag is they couldn't get close to the Cats in the their last two meetings (not even a little bit close). Hawthorn might have a choking problem, but I daresay that is a lot easier to fix than getting blown away by 6 and 16 goals which is what happened to the pies in the last two games against the cats. We have a list that can get close to the cats. You do not, judging by your last two meetings.