News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[flinchfree]

Matthews said fagan was accused of nodding. That isnt true. It is a straw man argument. He is being described as endorsing what was said by clarkson and burt. The accusations are against the club.

Can you point to me where Fagain isn't accused of nodding in the meeting?
And then the section where Fagan is specifically accused of endorsing what was allegedly said by Clarkson and Burt?
Because it appears you are now suggesting it is without dispute what was said in the meeting.

I don't look for strawmen where there is clearly stated fact.

Edit: Oh wait, I get it, you're playing the inference game. Aaaaand accusing me of creating false narratives to support an argument.....nicely done sir.

 

[brad sue well]

Correct, fagan’s title was head of coaching and development. The other person is not named as he was not a witness or perpetrator of the behaviour in question but he and other senior figures at the club at the time were responsible for ensuring their employees were acting in accordance with the responsibilities under the law and under the afl’s policies.

View attachment 2085025

NewkTheLot is Head of Coaching above or beside (at the lowest) the head coach? Fagan was an experienced football administrator at the time and if he was in the room, Burt as well, the opportunity to speak up was there.

I assume this other person is not in the Statement of Claim.

 

[Brishawk]

NewkTheLot is Head of Coaching above or beside (at the lowest) the head coach? Fagan was an experienced football administrator at the time and if he was in the room, Burt as well, the opportunity to speak up was there.

I assume this other person is not in the Statement of Claim.

I dont think it really matters. If you were in the room you were endorsing the behaviour. But for the record, i cant recall if he was senior or not at that time. It sounds like he was by the title.

 

[Brishawk]

Can you point to me where Fagain isn't accused of nodding in the meeting?
And then the section where Fagan is specifically accused of endorsing what was allegedly said by Clarkson and Burt?
Because it appears you are now suggesting it is without dispute what was said in the meeting.

I don't look for strawmen where there is clearly stated fact.

Edit: Oh wait, I get it, you're playing the inference game. Aaaaand accusing me of creating false narratives to support an argument.....nicely done sir.

Fagan isnt the party they claims are being made against. The club are.

And i never accused you of creating a false narrative. I accused matthews of a strawman. Can i recommend you take a break from this thread? You are clearly on tilt for several days on end and are jumping at every shadow. People are trying to communicate to you in good faith and you are teeing off at everyone.

 

[smish]

First "case management hearing" scheduled today.

 

[NewkTheLot]

For the limited few interested in the progress of the court case rather than just re-stating their opinions that they’ve held for 2 years (on both sides) and who won’t be shifted from those opinions whatever happens:

1. Hawthorn’s defence due 20 September

2. Mediation by 22 November

3. If mediation unsuccessful, trial starts 2 June next year

 

[tommyk72]

For the limited few interested in the progress of the court case rather than just re-stating their opinions that they’ve held for 2 years (on both sides) and who won’t be shifted from those opinions whatever happens:

1. Hawthorn’s defence due 20 September

2. Mediation by 22 November

3. If mediation unsuccessful, trial starts 2 June next year

Grand final week. Juicy. Will the defence become publicly available?

 

[HedgeFund]

Grand final week. Juicy. Will the defence become publicly available?

Yep.

It gets filed on the court system and anyone can access it through the Federal Court Portal.

 

[brad sue well]

https://archive.md/j1Syb#selection-769.0-1041.40

 

[Mercy Seat]

I think you can see why Leigh was getting so worked up in defence of Fagan when you put the context of all of this together which was around this time:

‘Things were piling up’: Emotional struggles, cancer scare almost made Fagan walk away

The Lions coach was undergoing tests for two types of cancer. His team was sitting at two wins and five losses, with the aftershock of the Hawthorn racism allegations still infiltrating most days. The pressure had become too much.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Manila_Hawk]

I think you can see why Leigh was getting so worked up in defence of Fagan when you put the context of all of this together which was around this time:

‘Things were piling up’: Emotional struggles, cancer scare almost made Fagan walk away

The Lions coach was undergoing tests for two types of cancer. His team was sitting at two wins and five losses, with the aftershock of the Hawthorn racism allegations still infiltrating most days. The pressure had become too much.

www.theage.com.au

https://archive.vn/qjJeb

 

[NewkTheLot]

Federal Court website shows that Hawthorn lodged its defence yesterday.

Probably take a few days for it to be available to the public.

 

[GOHORCS]

This isn’t philosophical - it’s legal. It is a workplace whether you think the players are chattel that can be churned out as you see fit or not.

Isn't a typical spray from a coach to a player or between players completely inappropriate in a typical work setting?
A sporting environment would be a tricky one to apply generic workplace legislation too.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Newt Hoenikker]

It's out.

 

[Ashman23]

https://archive.md/fAXYU

 

[Millsie69]

The comment about quiet players, like Cyril, being referred to as 'Humphrey B. Bear' and it being inferred as racism because it refers to a 'black bear'.....spare me!

 

[Jane Doe]

Rioli's partner doesn't come across well after reading that

 

[Flukey!]

So Peterson was a druggie when he came into the club?
There is a lesson there surely.

 

[Coburghawk]

From The Age.

Hawthorn claim they pulled Carl Peterson from the 2010 elimination final against Fremantle after his partner informed them he had used marijuana in the week leading up to the game, according to their defence lodged in the Federal Court.
The Hawks also claim that Peterson returned from a trip during the 2009 mid-season break incoherent and appearing to be affected by alcohol or illicit substances. Peterson also allegedly advised a club official he had no money in his bank account and had lost his clothing.

In the document, which is a response to a statement of claim from ex-Hawks Cyril Rioli, Peterson and others, Hawthorn also denied a meeting between Peterson, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt – where Clarkson was alleged to have suggested Peterson’s partner should terminate a pregnancy – ever took place.
The filing of Hawthorn’s defence is the latest development in the Federal Court action lodged against the football club, arising from allegations contained in the Hawks’ 2022 cultural safety review.

The defence also argues that Rioli signed a deed of release with Hawthorn at the time of his retirement in 2018 that precludes him from taking Federal Court action. It also states that the champion Hawk received “valuable consideration” from Hawthorn at that time.
Hawthorn argue “the proceeding is an abuse of process due to the delay by the applicants in commencing the proceeding”.

In the defence, Hawthorn say they recruited Peterson at the end of 2008 despite “concerns relating to his drug use and his failure of a voluntary drug test in or around that time” being raised by the club’s recruiting team.
Peterson lived with a host family and welfare staff including Burt and David Flood until early 2009 when he moved in with his partner Nikita Rotumah. He was delisted in October 2010.

Hawthorn deny that a meeting – at which Peterson alleged in the statement of claim that Clarkson said words to the effect of “unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy” – ever happened.
The document “denies that any meeting with the coaches occurred after Peterson informed Burt that Rotumah was pregnant”. It says that Fagan, Burt and Clarkson first became aware the pair were expecting a baby when Peterson announced the news to teammates in late July or early August and any of their actions before that point occurred without any awareness his partner was pregnant.
The Hawks also deny the following allegations from the statement of claim:

• That Peterson told Clarkson and Burt that he had told Rotumah it was not a good idea to have the baby or for them to see each other
• That Clarkson and Burt told Peterson words to the effect that he would stay at Burt’s house for a few days
• That Burt drove Peterson to his house, and on the way purchases a SIM card and told Peterson words to the effect that it would be best that Peterson was not able to communicate with his family any more so he could be 100 per cent focused on his training

Burt, Clarkson and Fagan have denied all the allegations against them, which were initially aired in the cultural safety review and made public by the ABC in grand final week of 2022.

Peterson eventually moved back with Rotumah in early 2010 and their baby was born in February 2010.
More to come

 

[TazHawk15]

Having a read of it I think the club and anyone who was alleged to have acted with racist intentions, have no case to answer.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I can't believe that the club has to defend itself formally against a comment about torn jeans.
How absurd.

Come on, this has been explained multiple times.

I simply can’t have people ignorant enough to keep posting this crap in here.

When statements are made by an old man who has a history of making racist gaffes, the suggestion that a First Nations person can’t afford to dress properly is always a very big risk of being taken as another slur.

Context is very important.

 

[CD Xbow]

From The Age.

Hawthorn claim they pulled Carl Peterson from the 2010 elimination final against Fremantle after his partner informed them he had used marijuana in the week leading up to the game, according to their defence lodged in the Federal Court.
The Hawks also claim that Peterson returned from a trip during the 2009 mid-season break incoherent and appearing to be affected by alcohol or illicit substances. Peterson also allegedly advised a club official he had no money in his bank account and had lost his clothing.

In the document, which is a response to a statement of claim from ex-Hawks Cyril Rioli, Peterson and others, Hawthorn also denied a meeting between Peterson, Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt – where Clarkson was alleged to have suggested Peterson’s partner should terminate a pregnancy – ever took place.
The filing of Hawthorn’s defence is the latest development in the Federal Court action lodged against the football club, arising from allegations contained in the Hawks’ 2022 cultural safety review.

The defence also argues that Rioli signed a deed of release with Hawthorn at the time of his retirement in 2018 that precludes him from taking Federal Court action. It also states that the champion Hawk received “valuable consideration” from Hawthorn at that time.
Hawthorn argue “the proceeding is an abuse of process due to the delay by the applicants in commencing the proceeding”.

In the defence, Hawthorn say they recruited Peterson at the end of 2008 despite “concerns relating to his drug use and his failure of a voluntary drug test in or around that time” being raised by the club’s recruiting team.
Peterson lived with a host family and welfare staff including Burt and David Flood until early 2009 when he moved in with his partner Nikita Rotumah. He was delisted in October 2010.

Hawthorn deny that a meeting – at which Peterson alleged in the statement of claim that Clarkson said words to the effect of “unless you break up with her and tell her to terminate the pregnancy, your football career will be in jeopardy” – ever happened.
The document “denies that any meeting with the coaches occurred after Peterson informed Burt that Rotumah was pregnant”. It says that Fagan, Burt and Clarkson first became aware the pair were expecting a baby when Peterson announced the news to teammates in late July or early August and any of their actions before that point occurred without any awareness his partner was pregnant.
The Hawks also deny the following allegations from the statement of claim:

• That Peterson told Clarkson and Burt that he had told Rotumah it was not a good idea to have the baby or for them to see each other
• That Clarkson and Burt told Peterson words to the effect that he would stay at Burt’s house for a few days
• That Burt drove Peterson to his house, and on the way purchases a SIM card and told Peterson words to the effect that it would be best that Peterson was not able to communicate with his family any more so he could be 100 per cent focused on his training

Burt, Clarkson and Fagan have denied all the allegations against them, which were initially aired in the cultural safety review and made public by the ABC in grand final week of 2022.

Peterson eventually moved back with Rotumah in early 2010 and their baby was born in February 2010.
More to come

Thanks for posting. I'm glad the allegations are finally being tested in court.

 

[Yardie]

Firstly, please don't just read the HUN article and take time to look at the defense paper.

It's an interesting read. Took me a while to work it out as had to get the Statement of Claim to understand how the response works.

As I understand it, and please correct me lawyers, the real response to the matters starts on page 27. It appears to me that Burt assisted in the response as where he was present or involved there is an actual defense. Where the others are involved we just straight up deny it in the defense so that would end up on the witness stand to work it out.

 

[Yardie]

So Peterson was a druggie when he came into the club?
There is a lesson there surely.

I'm sure there are a few Hawthorn champions who shouldn't have been at the club as well........

 

[Flukey!]

Come on, this has been explained multiple times.

I simply can’t have people ignorant enough to keep posting this crap in here.

When statements are made by an old man who has a history of making racist gaffes, the suggestion that a First Nations person can’t afford to dress properly is always a very big risk of being taken as another slur.

Context is very important.

I know your view. I don't share it.

Be offended. be upset, be pissed off. But court action?
Its an unreasonable response imo.