NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[faible]

Pretty big allegations coming out, implicating some big names.

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

An external review commissioned by the Hawthorn Football Club will reveal allegations that key figures at the AFL club demanded the separation of young First Nations players from their partners, and pressured one couple to terminate a pregnancy for the sake of the player's career.

The review document, handed to Hawthorn's senior management two weeks ago and now with the AFL integrity unit, will allege that club staff involved include four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson and former assistant Chris Fagan, now the coach of the Brisbane Lions.

"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards.

It goes on. It gets worse.

EDIT:

Mclachlan Press Conference Video:

'Incredibly serious': AFL to probe Hawks' treatment of Indigenous players

The AFL launch an independent investigation into 'extremely serious' allegations of Hawthorn's treatment of Indigenous players, as Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan step back from coaching roles

www.afl.com.au

Fagan to take a Leave of Absence:

Club Statement - Chris Fagan

The official AFL website of the Brisbane Lions Football Club

www.lions.com.au

Clarkson start to be delayed pending the outcome of the investigation:

Club Statement

The North Melbourne Football Club is aware of serious historical allegations made against individuals who worked at the Hawthorn Football Club, including incoming North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson

www.nmfc.com.au

Full statement from Clarkson:

The health, care and welfare of our players, staff and their families were always my highest priorities during my time at Hawthorn Football Club.

I was therefore shocked by the extremely serious allegations reported in the media earlier today. I was not interviewed by the authors of the report commissioned by the Club, and nor have I been provided with a copy of the report.

I was not afforded any due process and I refute any allegation of wrongdoing or misconduct and look forward to the opportunity to be heard as part of the AFL external investigation.

I have today contacted the President of North Melbourne Football Club and we have mutually agreed that I will step back from my responsibilities at the Club so I can fully cooperate in the investigation.

As the matters are now subject to an investigation, I will not make any further comment at this stage.

Hawthorn Club Statement, Wednesday 21 September:

Club statement

Earlier this year the Hawthorn Football Club engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former First Nations players and staff to learn more about their experience at the club.

This important work has raised disturbing historical allegations that require further investigation. Upon learning of these allegations, the club immediately engaged AFL Integrity as is appropriate.

The club will continue to provide support to those who have participated in this process, and their wellbeing remains our priority.

While the process indicated the current environment at the club is culturally safe, it also recommended that some of the club’s current First Nations training and development programs should continue to be strengthened.

The club places the best interests and welfare of our players and staff as our number one priority.

Given the matters raised are confidential, the club will not provide any further comment at this time.

ABC Statement on contacting relevant parties before their article was published - Note ABC article and Hawthorn report are separate things.



Continuing on from Part One found here

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

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Continuing on from Part Two found here

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[sr36]

He didnt settle with saying he was glad it was over. He said he would continue the fight to prove he is innocent in any court or other place required. He has challenged the accusers to put up or disappear.

I have no doubt apologists will line up to say they arent disappearing but are being silenced, even though they have avenues which exist to help them - assuming their claims are true. If they do disappear then the obvious reason is the AFL paid them hush money and they willingly accepted it - even though they claimed that they were after the truth being revealed and apologies and changes.

It seems to be the apologists claiming the coaches have been silenced... aren't they desperate to have their truth revealed? Are we going to see that? We've just had a categorical denial from Fagan - even though his mate admitted that the coaches turned up to a house to help enact a break up. so I don't see how it can be categorical - rather than a different version of events.

 

[r_boy]

It seems to be the apologists claiming the coaches have been silenced... aren't they desperate to have their truth revealed? Are we going to see that? We've just had a categorical denial from Fagan - even though his mate admitted that the coaches turned up to a house to help enact a break up. so I don't see how it can be categorical - rather than a different version of events.

You don't see it because you don't want to see it

 

[HairyO]

It seems to be the apologists claiming the coaches are silenced... aren't they desperate to have their truth revealed? Are we going to see that? We've just had a categorical denial from Fagan - even though his mate admitted that the coaches turned up to a house to help enact a break up. so I don't see how it can be categorical, rather than a different version of events.

They were silenced. They were unable to comment, but now are. And we see Fagan come out swinging and challenging the accusers to take it further.

What exact words did his mate use?

I bet heaps of coaches discuss relationships with players. I bet heaps of players are grateful. I also bet when their lives go badly, heaps of players will blame others for their failures rather than look at themselves.

I bet all this happens at every club.

 

[eastfreo75]

Well I don't mean to brag but I personally feel very vindicated after hearing the AFL's news. I put out a post last week on the Hawthorn board stating essentially everything the AFL said tonight. That there was zero evidence thus far Clarkson and Fagan had done anything wrong and the only thing which had been achieved out of the 6 month long investigation was seeing both their reputations getting tarnished. What the accusers have done against these men and the Hawthorn Football Club is defemination and hopefully the AFL's announcement tonight puts to bed the ridiculous question of whether anything the accusers say is actually credible and rather what punishment will these nameless people face for bringing our entire game into disrepute. If I was Alistair I would immediately seek a defemination lawsuit given what the entire scandal has done to his mental health. Its up to him what path he choses to take but he should use every means possible to seek justice. As should the Hawthorn Football Club whos name has been beaten around the bush by the media for the best part of a year.

Unlike others I don't see things through a racial lens. I view everything through the facts. Through who is being genuine, who is not, who is a victim and who is only making it up for their own benefit. During the Collingwood racism scandal, once the investigation was complete and it showed systemic racism had occurred I was in fact one of the most vocal supporters calling for Eddie McGuire to resign and said many former players and coaches should publicly apologise to Héritier, Leon and others effected as they were clearly the victims in that case. Unlike the current nameless accusers they had the courage to come forward from the start to fight for justice because they knew they were in the right.

I have always been consistent in believing in facts and the law over identity and discrimination and that is what we all need to do going forward. Real peoples livelihoods are at stake. One thing I think we can all agree on is almost every situation regarding racism has been handled extremely poorly by the clubs involved and the AFL. That is because they are football organisations with football people. Dealing with delectate matters like this isn't in their expertise. That is why going forward I believe all cases like this should be run externally to the clubs. Have a government appointed council investigate the matter. Have the situation play out in court rather than Footy Classified so we can stop the constant media shaming of AFL greats and actually achieve justice and peace.

Thinking is hard that’s why people judge.

 

[perplexed]

Let's test it in a body that is designed to protect people from racism, not listen to a body that is designed to protect its own image.

Whilst I agree with this, someone has to take it there. If it hasn't happened yet, I don't see why it would happen now. We shall see.

 

[Stars align]

It seems to be the apologists claiming the coaches have been silenced... aren't they desperate to have their truth revealed? Are we going to see that? We've just had a categorical denial from Fagan - even though his mate admitted that the coaches turned up to a house to help enact a break up. so I don't see how it can be categorical - rather than a different version of events.

From day 1
My information in relation to Fagan specifically is that his lawyering up was 10% for the investigation and 90% for everything else that is to follow

 

[South of the Yarra]

Whilst I agree with this, someone has to take it there. If it hasn't happened yet, I don't see why it would happen now. We shall see.

According to Robbo and also separate sources I have, it is heading there.

 

[sr36]

You don't see it because you don't want to see it

No. I can't see it as it doesn't make sense - unless he's claiming Burt is wrong as well. His mate admitted that the three of them went to the house to help enact the separation, which is part of the accusation. So his denial of that claim can't be categorical, which would mean that he's denying the entirety of the claim he must just be denying some aspects of the claim. It can't be a categorical denial, unless he is also denying Burt's claim.

So now is your time. Which parts happened and which didn't Chris? He's not going to share that though.

 

[Stars align]

Yep. If "human right's abuse" is about as ugly a phrase as there is.

You may be able to answer this
Who is stumping up the cash across all parties for their legal representation?

 

[Kanga Commando]

Have you not seen the way the court system runs these days? It’s a bigger joke than the AFL MRO. Trust me, no one should want this to go to the courts.

I will give you that. We may as well roll dice at the casino.

 

[eastfreo75]

It seems to be the apologists claiming the coaches have been silenced... aren't they desperate to have their truth revealed? Are we going to see that? We've just had a categorical denial from Fagan - even though his mate admitted that the coaches turned up to a house to help enact a break up. so I don't see how it can be categorical - rather than a different version of events.

Fagan and Clarkson refused to talk to the investigations because they wanted the personal and medical files of the players Hawthorn and players refused to give.

Both haven’t answered the allegations except for motherhood statement ie I deny all accusations.

Interesting that both claimed that won’t given the details of the allegations and given right of reply.

How can you deny an allegation if you don’t know the allegation are?

Refuse to talk and demanding Hawthorn to break confidentiality seems a bit fishy to me.

 

[HairyO]

No. I can't see it as it doesn't make sense - unless he's claiming Burt is wrong as well. His mate admitted that the three of them went to the house to help enact the separation, which is part of the accusation. So his denial of that claim can't be categorical, which would mean that he's denying the entirety of the claim he must just be denying some aspects of the claim. It can't be a categorical denial, unless he is also denying Burt's claim.

So now is your time. Which parts happened and which didn't Chris? He's not going to share that though.

You think they were being investigated for going to someone's house to help them separate from their partner and that's it?

Why did the AFL need a whole month to find Aboriginal lawyers and lawyers with experience handing matters of racism if all they needed was 4 people who have gone through painful breakups?

Or... is it maybe possible the entire premise of the investigation was to find out if racist acts took place - based on a report commissioned by Hawthorn to look in to racist acts which claimed that racist acts took place and the AFL should be notified and Hawthorn prepare for a Human Rights Commission investigation?

They have all categorically denied the claims of racism.

But you knew that. Youre just falling back on cheap shots because that is all that is left from the farce of the last 9 months.

 

[sr36]

You may be able to answer this
Who is stumping up the cash across all parties for their legal representation?

No idea.

 

[South of the Yarra]

They were accused of RACISM.

From the 30000 documents gathered in the AFL investigation they found no sign of RACISM from the evidence supplied by the accusers.

They accused at worst may have made some insensitive suggestions around separation and abortions but this does not constitute RACISM.

I think people have been conditioned that anything bad that happens to an Indigenous person falls under the term RACISM.

IT DOESN'T.





Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I would suggest making comments to an Aboriginal person about separation from an another Aboriginal person and abortion can clearly be constituted as racism. Clarkson as a leader of young Aboriginal men should be well aware of Intergenerational trauma caused by Stolen Generation and be sensitive to this. I suggest you have little understanding of Aboriginal people and the fact that you 'think people have been conditioned that anything bad that happens to an Indigenous person falls under the term RACISM.' shows you have no understanding of racism.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

So do I have this right, essentially?

1. Ex-players accuse their coaches of XX
2. AFL launches an investigation
3. AFL finds no wrongdoing
4. AFL makes payout to ex players

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

 

[South of the Yarra]

So do I have this right, essentially?

1. Ex-players accuse their coaches of XX
2. AFL launches an investigation
3. AFL finds no wrongdoing
4. AFL makes payout to ex players

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

5. Ex players to progress through to Human Rights Commission

 

[Collingwoodity]

Way to miss the point. My kids complain about lack of natural justice but dems the breaks when it’s not a criminal matter.

Natural justice applies to all legal matters

 

[ashep]

Wow, lotta bigfooty posters with inside sources huh?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

5. Ex players to progress through to Human Rights Commission

So why would the AFL pay them off?

I assume that would only be to buy silence?

 

[Devington]

So do I have this right, essentially?

1. Ex-players accuse their coaches of XX
2. AFL launches an investigation
3. AFL finds no wrongdoing
4. AFL makes payout to ex players

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

Point 4 was strongly denied by Gil.

 

[Rob R]

Only if the acts and complaints are proven false.

Otherwise around, accusers have to prove on balance of probability that their allegations are true - if not, whatever go away money the AFL paid will be on the way to Clarko and his lawyers plus more.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stars align]

5. Ex players to progress through to Human Rights Commission

Rusty got a biline on ABC website but only parroting what we already have been told

 

[sr36]

Or... is it maybe possible the entire premise of the investigation was to find out if racist acts took place - based on a report commissioned by Hawthorn to look in to racist acts which claimed that racist acts took place and the AFL should be notified and Hawthorn prepare for a Human Rights Commission investigation?

Racism is the big media talking point.

But Point one of the AFL inquiry was to look for inappropriate conduct. The original draft of the inquiry terms supposedly had no mention of racism and it was added at the request of the accusing parties.

If it does go to the HRC it will be based on discrimination - could very well be gender based as well or even instead of racial. As well as being linked by race, Jackson's article contained three stories claiming the employer actively tried to separate the player from their partners - all of them with kids or pregnancies involved. Race isn't the only angle on what went on here. And Burt's story suggests that something pretty unusual in terms of a workplace went on here.