NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[South of the Yarra]

um because there was video evidence of him in a nightclub doing things which weren't to say the least what you would expect from an AFL player. Same with Bailey Smith, Sydney Stack etc etc

difference here is there is zero evidence apart from hearsay

There was not video evidence of what I am talking about and the other video evidence was consensual. Why not innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Mikey13G]

What a farce. The timing with Clarkson was coincidental. There's really no closure for either parties as Clarkson and Fagan have both suffered damage to their image and reputations.

 

[josephine666]

I'm curious what reasoning would be given to sanction Hawthorn. Instigating a survey to try and better understand views held by past and present indigenous players with a view to improve cultural awareness within the club doesn't seem like a good reason to be punished. It may have turned into a sh*t show for all involved with the ABC article, but how is that a governance issue for Hawthorn?

Or is Gil insinuating it was Hawthorn that leaked the report? That would certainly be worthy of bringing the game into disrepute.

Other than that, I can't see what other reasoning there could be considering the AFL has just declared there was no breach of AFL rules.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I was just answering a question.

Don’t tell me what’s bullshit.

Martin Bryant…. Wow that’s a stretch.

Hang on aren't we innocent until proven guilty or do we just pick and choose?

 

[ibd77]

A group of Aboriginal ex players come out and make an accusation of racism and hardly anyone believes them.
A coach comes out tonight and proclaims his innocence and most believe him.

Can someone explain why?

The coaches have been named and shamed.

The aboriginal accusers remain nameless and unaccountable.

You tell me how public opinion feels about this?

 

[Devington]

Hang on aren't we innocent until proven guilty or do we just pick and choose?

Bryant was arrested at the scene. There aren't even charges against the accused in this.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The coaches have been named and shamed.

The aboriginal accusers remain nameless and unaccountable.

You tell me how public opinion feels about this?

De Goey was named and shamed, accusers nameless. Go read his threads.

 

[jackolanturn]

There was not video evidence of what I am talking about and the other video evidence was consensual. Why not innocent until proven guilty.

he also owned up and apoligised/admitted to everything he's been accused of over the years and taken time away to improve himself to be better. The only time he fought back was the last time when the media was going overboard about the consensual thing you referenced with the woman. I'm not sure though how this relates into "innocent until proven gulity". All it does it prove the point about how the media are often quick to jump to conclusions in cases but De Goey himself admitted he needed to change his behavior if he wanted to play AFL

 

[South of the Yarra]

Bryant was arrested at the scene. There aren't even charges against the accused in this.

Irrelevant still needs to be innocent until proven guilty according to many or do we just pick accuse. Yes, we know Bryant was guilty, so we don't have innocent to proven guilty. We simply pick and choose.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Fages happy for all documentation to be released. Must feel pretty vindicated.

Yeah, very interesting he is almost imploring all documentation to be released and seems very keen for this whole saga to get to court in order for the courts to decide where the truth lies.

You don’t come out with those sorts of grandiose statements if fearful there is some information that can harm you lurking in the shadows.

He’s not answering for Clarko or Burt, but what a disgraceful stain on his reputation this has been, from what we still believe is zero … I repeat, zero evidence of Fagan doing anything wrong.


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[South of the Yarra]

he also owned up and apoligised/admitted to everything he's been accused of over the years and taken time away to improve himself to be better. The only time he fought back was the last time when the media was going overboard about the consensual thing you referenced with the woman. I'm not sure though how this relates into "innocent until proven gulity". All it does it prove the point about how the media are often quick to jump to conclusions in cases but De Goey himself admitted he needed to change his behavior if he wanted to play AFL

Rubbish go check his first charges that were dropped and look at why. We pick and choose innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Engimal v3]

I'm as freeee as biiirrrd noooow ♪♫

 

[ibd77]

De Goey was named and shamed, accusers nameless. Go read his threads.

What does this have to do with the Hawthorn situation?

 

[South of the Yarra]

What does this have to do with the Hawthorn situation?

It shows that people pick and choose the innocent to proven guilty rubbish pending on who the person is.

 

[Devington]

It shows that people pick and choose the innocent to proven guilty rubbish pending on who the person is.

On who the person is, or on the circumstances as a whole?

 

[The Nostradamus]

So do I have this right, essentially?

1. Ex-players accuse their coaches of XX
2. AFL launches an investigation
3. AFL finds no wrongdoing
4. AFL makes payout to ex players

Is that correct? Or am I missing something?

4 is not correct

and will be soon replaced with clarko sues for defamation and denies all allegations

 

[jackolanturn]

Rubbish go check his first charges that were dropped and look at why. We pick and choose innocent until proven guilty.

there has been a lot of incidents over the years where DeGoey has gotten himself in trouble. If you are a multiple offender in society of course the hammer is going to come down harder on you if you stuff up again. Thats how the law works in general. Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have no history of any wrongdoing. They have had these hearsay allegations come across them with no evidence to support any of the accusations. I know it hurts you to hear the truth mate but the major difference too is with DeGoey, Bryant etc they were charged by the police. The police don't just charge people out of the blue, nor do they have an agenda, they are employed to enforce the law! The indigenous accusers never went to the police, to court, fairwork or anything. All they did was go to the ABC. That right there is why people like me see them as having no credibility compared to other cases. Not due to race

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I'm not talking about protesting their innocence. You claim that Fagan can't speak to the allegations because there are no allegations, yet he's categorically denied the allegations. It doesn't make sense

No, he can’t speak to them as they haven’t formally been made, he can only deny what has been written already, and he has.

 

[sr36]

No, he can’t speak to them as they haven’t formally been made, he can only deny what has been written already, and he has.

I might leave it there as I'm not understanding how you can deny allegations but you can't speak about them.

 

[Chief]

Are they going to tell their story now??

 

[sr36]

Are they going to tell their story now??

They're desperate to tell their story. But they can't tell their story. We're not sure why But Fagan can categorically deny all the allegations - even the aspects of the allegations that Burt admitted to. Its all really clear.

 

[Engimal v3]

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay vindicated

 

[brooksnk]

Are they going to tell their story now??

Referring to my earlier comment...

All the people trying to pin Clarkson, Fagan and Burt on not telling their sides of the story - what if all the context in which their retelling would require reveals highly personal information about the complainants themselves? What if that context included drug abuse, violence...etc?

People would nail them for making those details about the lives of the complainants pubic. Now I don't know myself if this sort of context is actually there, but the rumours certainly suggest it does - and it would perfectly explain why Clarkson and Fagan are avoiding speaking their side in so far as possible. As for Burt, he has spoken somewhat, but also obviously left a whole lot of detail out and only gave a very limited account of the Zac matter.

What would you expect Fagan/Clarkson/Burt to do in this scenario?

 

[Noidnadroj]

A group of Aboriginal ex players come out and make an accusation of racism and hardly anyone believes them.
A coach comes out tonight and proclaims his innocence and most believe him.

Can someone explain why?

I think everyone believed them initially. The media narrative and public conversation was damning against the accused.

Then the accused protested their innocence of any wrong doing in the strongest possible terms. Ok, interesting.

Then as time went by it became clear the accusations were so serious next steps would involve having these accusations tested and cross examined. At this point the most serious accusers weren’t willing to be involved in further investigation. Ok, interesting.

Then the person who commissioned the report was found to have engaged in criminal and fraudulent actions against an indigenous body he represents. Ok, interesting.

Then an independent investigation analysed thousands of documents and interviewed 4 families and didn’t find enough evidence to reach a point to even put any accusations to the 3 x accused. Ok, interesting.

Then the families who participated in the independent investigation accepted a no adverse finding decision against the 3 x accused without any accusations being substantial enough to even put to them for their reply. No compensation was paid. Ok, interesting.

Then upon this finding Fagan implores the documents to be publicly released and wishes to have his day in court, and despite being at risk of court action or being sued basically calls his accusers liars. Ok, interesting.

And you wonder why people might now believe Fagan? Is it really a mystery?


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[sr36]

Then as time went by it became clear the accusations were so serious next steps would involve having these accusations tested and cross examined. At this point the most serious accusers weren’t willing to be involved in further investigation. Ok, interesting.


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Actually, at this point the most serious accusers weren't willing to be involved in an AFL investigation - but it sounds like at least one of these families is taking it to the Human Rights Commission.