NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

So an interesting question is, what will the safe guards be that are created and enforced within the industry going into the future?

Or is it only applicable when there is 1 or 2 examples of this falling down across the league?

For example, Damien Hardwick and Richmond made Daniel Rioli live with the Hardwicks in his first year in the system, to keep an eye on his professionalism , at which point he then moved into his own place.

Prior to Sydney Stack being drafted, he was made to live with Damien Hardwick, so Hardwick could get to know him and view his professionalism first hand prior to being drafted and they could keep him in check.

Dustin Martin lived with Richmond President Gary Marsch in his formative years to keep him out of trouble with his background.


Should these arrangement cease to exist as they are clearly focused on players from specific and/or marginalised backgrounds?

Thanks ,great input Andrew Bolt.

 

[Bluelegs]

Where has the coach validated the accounts?

It's essentially a regurgitation of the ABC accusations and nothing to do with the coach apart from the following 2 item additions

"The unnamed Hawks coach told the review that Clarkson, Fagan, general manager Mark Evans and former player development manager Jason Burt 'operated the football department like the Russian mafia' and ostracised anyone who questioned their methods, according to the report."

The report also claims the coach said 'I knew this day would come' when he was contacted by the authors of the review.

So where has he validated the testimony? If he validated the testimony it would be in the Hawthorn report, as he was contacted by "the authors of the review". This validation on record has never been reported by any of the journo's so far.......


Also, the 3 independent accounts of three couples are regarding 3 separate issues, these are not 6 people corroborating the same event as you are making out.

In fact, based on the Hawthorn review, the testimony of the main accuser is based soley from the perspective of the partner, with no first hand evidence other than what occurred when Clarkson visited their house.

They're not seperate issues, they are independent accounts of seperate but strikingly similar experiences. In my view that makes their testimony more plausible. We also have an account from Shannyn Ah Sam-Rioli recollecting a similar conversation with an indigenous partner of a player from a Hawthorn official. Even if you want to disgregard the claim surrounding the abortion, these accounts suggest that Hawthorn made a policy of seperating young indigenous players from their families and partners.

 

[Saint]

So where in that does it say behavioral issues, it quotes Martin being more comfortable living with a family rather than on his own , or are you ass uming

It could be that the housemates had the problems and Richmond were looking to get Martin away from them. Or none of them had a problem, Martin just didn't know how to live outside of a family situation while being a professional athlete.

It seems pretty clear that the AFL need to take player welfare responsibilities away from the clubs. The Clubs (particularly coaches whose KPIs are mostly on-field) are too incentivised to put the club and their own careers ahead of the players' welfare.

There's a big difference between somebody being told they have to do something with their life or face the sack and somebody offering a solution which is clearly their choice.

It's clear the 3 stories were awful cases of the former. I don't know about the Martin or Rioli situation. We might find out later that March was deliberately keeping Martin away from his dad's associates?

 

[SunshineBoy]

It could be that the housemates had the problems and Richmond were looking to get Martin away from them. Or none of them had a problem, Martin just didn't know how to live outside of a family situation while being a professional athlete.

It seems pretty clear that the AFL need to take player welfare responsibilities away from the clubs. The Clubs (particularly coaches whose KPIs are mostly on-field) are too incentivised to put the club and their own careers ahead of the players' welfare.

There's a big difference between somebody being told they have to do something with their life or face the sack and somebody offering a solution which is clearly their choice.

It's clear the 3 stories were awful cases of the former. I don't know about the Martin or Rioli situation. We might find out later that March was deliberately keeping Martin away from his dad's associates?

I think I agree with you

 

[Curly5]

Yes after he was told to remove his SIM card, leave his partner and abort his baby.

I wonder why things happened that way; the context, the background .

By the way, I don't believe "get rid of the partner and baby" (if said) equates to "have an abortion".

 

[Sphynx]

So where in that does it say behavioral issues, it quotes Martin being more comfortable living with a family rather than on his own , or are you ass uming

This is not about Richmond at all, in fact you could argue Richmonds mentoring of Martin the way they have, is the reason he's been moulded into the role model he is these days.

I'm merely demonstrating him as an example of someone with behavioral issues, from a marginal background (as described in the HS article with a family with a criminal back ground) who the AFL club went to the extent of trying to control his social habits and living conditions.

I'm pointing out, this type of performance involvement from AFL clubs isn't limited to Hawthorn and certainly isn't limited to First Nations players.

Tigers helping Martin: Hardwick

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick says the Club is working with Dustin Martin to assist him with life outside of football.

www.richmondfc.com.au

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-young-gun-dustin-martin-needs/news-story/6ed627361066e7eac646252488a6b08e

Richmond come down hard on Dustin Martin after Daniel Connors leaves in wake of sleeping pill drama

Richmond act tough to save Martin

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[FredLeDeux]

It could be that the housemates had the problems and Richmond were looking to get Martin away from them. Or none of them had a problem, Martin just didn't know how to live outside of a family situation while being a professional athlete.

It seems pretty clear that the AFL need to take player welfare responsibilities away from the clubs. The Clubs (particularly coaches whose KPIs are mostly on-field) are too incentivised to put the club and their own careers ahead of the players' welfare.

There's a big difference between somebody being told they have to do something with their life or face the sack and somebody offering a solution which is clearly their choice.

It's clear the 3 stories were awful cases of the former. I don't know about the Martin or Rioli situation. We might find out later that March was deliberately keeping Martin away from his dad's associates?

They only made Martin move in with March because his old man claimed he was aboriginal

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Yeah I am.

He lived with Jayden Post and Ben Nason in Altona and was made to move in with Gary March to clean up his act in his 2nd year.

There were also rumours on this very website that Martin had his phone and use of the internet controlled under this arrangement with March.

Fairly topical I would have thought.

Richmond chief executive Brendon Gale says the club will not give up on Dustin Martin

Tigers will never give up on Dusty

www.foxsports.com.au

View attachment 1520139

No one was forced to live with anyone at Richmond. They were offered if they wanted to as they were far away from family.You are way out of line.
As if Clarkson would welcome an Indigenous player to live at his house.
Clarkson's solution was to cut people off from their family, change their sim card and get new white friends.
The Russia mafia .
Clarkson is finished, start looking for a new coach .

 

[Bluelegs]

I wonder why things happened that way; the context, the background .

By the way, I don't believe "get rid of the partner and baby" (if said) equates to "have an abortion".

What do you think it means? Does that make it better?

 

[Sphynx]

No one was forced to live with anyone at Richmond. They were offered if they wanted to as they were far away from family.You are way out of line.
As if Clarkson would welcome an Indigenous player to live at his house.
Clarkson's solution was to cut people off from their family, change their sim card and get new white friends.
The Russia mafia .
Clarkson is finished, start looking for a new coach .

Do you think Sydney Stack would have been drafted had he refused to live with Damien Hardwick?

 

[gouki88]

Do you think Sydney Stack would have been drafted had he refused to live with Damien Hardwick?

For the love of god, please stop this asinine line of argument.

 

[VinnieB]

Imagine Joe Daniher playing in one of Clarko’s teams….

He would have pinched a hole through 2 walls and kicked the shiit out of his dog when he heard the news his wife was going to have a baby in September…..even if he were playing at North.

 

[SunshineBoy]

This is not about Richmond at all, in fact you could argue Richmonds mentoring of Martin the way they have, is the reason he's been moulded into the role model he is these days.

I'm merely demonstrating him as an example of someone with behavioral issues, from a marginal background (as described in the HS article with a family with a criminal back ground) who the AFL club went to the extent of trying to control his social habits and living conditions.

I'm pointing out, this type of performance involvement from AFL clubs isn't limited to Hawthorn and certainly isn't limited to First Nations players.

Tigers helping Martin: Hardwick

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick says the Club is working with Dustin Martin to assist him with life outside of football.

www.richmondfc.com.au

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-young-gun-dustin-martin-needs/news-story/6ed627361066e7eac646252488a6b08e

Richmond come down hard on Dustin Martin after Daniel Connors leaves in wake of sleeping pill drama

Richmond act tough to save Martin

www.foxsports.com.au

i like your belief in your cause , but the second article was after he lived with Marsch, please read it again, and it’s about Dan connors and his behavior not about Martin

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Do you think Sydney Stack would have been drafted had he refused to live with Damien Hardwick?

Clarkson is finished because of his racist attitudes and directives.
You trying to blame Hardwick is really fcked up.
Face it, Clarkson is a dog who is finished.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I honestly find it difficult to believe that some people think the alleged parties here are lying/making this up ?

Where is their motive or agenda ?

The lack of compassion and basic human decency for the aggrieved parties (especially the woman who lost their babies) is shameful.

Of course Clarkson and Fagan are not proven to be found guilty yet and deserve the opportunity to clear their names, but I am just appalled that some here think this story is either hoax or worse, should be glossed over and forgotten.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Do you think Sydney Stack would have been drafted had he refused to live with Damien Hardwick?

Again this was transitional accommodation , he wasn’t stereotyped like north did to him

 

[Sphynx]

For the love of god, please stop this asinine line of argument.

Most of the allegations in the report apart from the abortion accusation is surrounding clubs manipulating players social relationships and living conditions.

I'm merely pointing out it occurs everywhere.

So where do we draw the line?

North made Tarryn Thomas live with our strength and conditioning coach on his farm 2 years ago over the summer so he could grow up a bit and learn to be a better professional athlete and have someone instruct him daily on his diet and training regimes.

Where do we draw the line?

Are we sure these are racism issues and not brought about by the professionalism issues of the individual players?

 

[Sphynx]

I honestly find it difficult to believe that some people think the alleged parties here are lying/making this up ?

Where is their motive or agenda ?

The lack of compassion and basic human decency for the aggrieved parties (especially the woman who lost their babies) is shameful.

Of course Clarkson and Fagan are not proven to be found guilty yet and deserve the opportunity to clear their names, but I am just appalled that some here think this story is either hoax or worse, should be glossed over and forgotten.

Who has said this?

 

[Sentinel]

I honestly find it difficult to believe that some people think the alleged parties here are lying/making this up ?

Where is their motive or agenda ?

The lack of compassion and basic human decency for the aggrieved parties (especially the woman who lost their babies) is shameful.

Of course Clarkson and Fagan are not proven to be found guilty yet and deserve the opportunity to clear their names, but I am just appalled that some here think this story is either hoax or worse, should be glossed over and forgotten.

It becomes fairly clear what's behind it when you look at the posters making the most noise about this and the 3 clubs which most doing that seem to support. Discrediting the players and their partners, discrediting the journalist etc etc. There's a fairly common theme, unfortunately.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

This is not about Richmond at all, in fact you could argue Richmonds mentoring of Martin the way they have, is the reason he's been moulded into the role model he is these days.

I'm merely demonstrating him as an example of someone with behavioral issues, from a marginal background (as described in the HS article with a family with a criminal back ground) who the AFL club went to the extent of trying to control his social habits and living conditions.

I'm pointing out, this type of performance involvement from AFL clubs isn't limited to Hawthorn and certainly isn't limited to First Nations players.

Tigers helping Martin: Hardwick

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick says the Club is working with Dustin Martin to assist him with life outside of football.

www.richmondfc.com.au

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-young-gun-dustin-martin-needs/news-story/6ed627361066e7eac646252488a6b08e

Richmond come down hard on Dustin Martin after Daniel Connors leaves in wake of sleeping pill drama

Richmond act tough to save Martin

www.foxsports.com.au

Huge difference between helping and being full on controlling.

 

[gordo2016]

So an interesting question is, what will the safe guards be that are created and enforced within the industry going into the future?

Or is it only applicable when there is 1 or 2 examples of this falling down across the league?

For example, Damien Hardwick and Richmond made Daniel Rioli live with the Hardwicks in his first year in the system, to keep an eye on his professionalism , at which point he then moved into his own place.

Prior to Sydney Stack being drafted, he was made to live with Damien Hardwick, so Hardwick could get to know him and view his professionalism first hand prior to being drafted and they could keep him in check.

Dustin Martin lived with Richmond President Gary Marsch in his formative years to keep him out of trouble with his background.


Should these arrangement cease to exist as they are clearly focused on players from specific and/or marginalised backgrounds?

Rioli and Stack weren't made to live anywhere. They chose to live there with the consent of their families. Doesn't seem there is too much consent going on with these Hawthorn players.

 

[Sphynx]

Rioli and Stack weren't made to live anywhere. They chose to live there with the consent of their families. Doesn't seem there is too much consent going on with these Hawthorn players.

Rioli and Stack were from interstate and legal adults, Rioli had boarded at Ballarat previously, why would they need the consent of their families?


As for the second point, are we now accusing Hawthorn of kidnapping? Maybe they were the Russian marfia after all...

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Some posters in here, in particular some North and Hawthorn supporters, should be ashamed of themselves and are showing how disingenuous they really are.

 

[gouki88]

Most of the allegations in the report apart from the abortion accusation is surrounding clubs manipulating players social relationships and living conditions.

I'm merely pointing out it occurs everywhere.

So where do we draw the line?

North made Tarryn Thomas live with our strength and conditioning coach on his farm 2 years ago over the summer so he could grow up a bit and learn to be a better professional athlete and have someone instruct him daily on his diet and training regimes.

Where do we draw the line?

Are we sure these are racism issues and not brought about by the professionalism issues of the individual players?

I was wondering how long it would take you to directly victim-blame, rather than skirt around it post after post. Deplorable

 

[Sphynx]

I was wondering how long it would take you to directly victim-blame, rather than skirt around it post after post. Deplorable

You really need to understand the concept of victim blaming.

I'm trying to dissect the allegations individually and have been specifically trying to discuss those related to the social and living arrangement manipulations.

I've given you examples of where it's currently acceptable in the AFL for both first nations players and those from marginal backgrounds.

The abortion accusations are completely separate and are in no way defendable, if validated, as reiterated by Phil Egan.